The nature of hell?
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Science-wise
In the grave the body rots and decays - so anything outside of that is non-sense, we know what happens.
Biblically
hell is the grave - yes the grave is a place - wherever one lays dead is their grave
state of the dead - all are in the grave and in a dormant non-conscience state (described as "sleep" - even by Jesus Himself ... ie death of Lazarus**) until either the 1st or 2nd resurrection.
Nobody is currently burning in hell (all are in the grave), nobody will burn for eternity
The lost, in the final judgement, all the lost will be destroyed by eternal fire (fire that comes from where God lives/dwells and He lives/dwells in eternity*) and are totally destroyed, never to exist again.
*
For thus says the high and lofty one who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: I dwell in the high and holy place, and also with those who are contrite and humble in spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite (Isaiah 57:15).
*
Then ... God will make a new heaven in earth, establish His kingdom on it and all the saved will dwell on it with Him for eternity in perfect peace no more SIN. AMEN!
Why would Jesus say Lazarus was asleep and then state he was dead (certainly he knows the difference)?
Because nobody has experienced the LAST death yet. Jesus knew/knows all will be resurrected ... so Him/Jesus using the term sleep makes perfect sense for all the dead.
The first death is temporal ... the 2nd death is final
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WanderedHome
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From Thomas Hopko, "The Orthodox Faith: Vol. IV, Spirituality". The whole set can be found for free here:
"The Kingdom of heaven is already in the midst of those who live the spiritual life. What the spiritual person knows in the Holy Spirit, in Christ and the Church, will come with power and glory for all men to behold at the end of the ages.
The final coming of Christ will be the judgment of all men. His very presence will be the judgment. Now men can live without the love of Christ in their lives. They can exist as if there were no God, no Christ, no Spirit, no Church, no spiritual life. At the end of the ages this will no longer be possible. All men will have to behold the Face of Him who “for us men and our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate . . . who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried . . .” (Nicene Creed). All will have to look at Him whom they have crucified by their sins: Him “who was dead and is alive again” (Rev 1.17–18).
For those who love the Lord, His Presence will be infinite joy, paradise and eternal life. For those who hate the Lord, the same Presence will be infinite torture, hell and eternal death. The reality for both the saved and the damned will be exactly the same when Christ “comes in glory, and all angels with Him,” so that “God may be all in all” (1 Cor 15–28). Those who have God as their “all” within this life will finally have divine fulfillment and life. For those whose “all” is themselves and this world, the “all” of God will be their torture, their punishment and their death. And theirs will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Mt 8.21, et al.).
The Son of Man will send His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father (Mt 13.41–43).
According to the saints, the “fire” that will consume sinners at the coming of the Kingdom of God is the same “fire” that will shine with splendor in the saints. It is the “fire” of God’s love; the “fire” of God Himself who is Love. “For our God is a consuming fire” (Heb 12.29) who “dwells in unapproachable light” (1 Tim 6.16). For those who love God and who love all creation in Him, the “consuming fire” of God will be radiant bliss and unspeakable delight. For those who do not love God, and who do not love at all, this same “consuming fire” will be the cause of their “weeping” and their “gnashing of teeth.”
Thus it is the Church’s spiritual teaching that God does not punish man by some material fire or physical torment. God simply reveals Himself in the risen Lord Jesus in such a glorious way that no man can fail to behold His glory. It is the presence of God’s splendid glory and love that is the scourge of those who reject its radiant power and light.
. . . those who find themselves in hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo no greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in hell are deprived of the love of God . . . But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed! (Saint Isaac of Syria, Mystic Treatises).
This teaching is found in many spiritual writers and saints: Saint Maximus the Confessor, the novelist Fyodor Dostoevsky. At the end of the ages God’s glorious love is revealed for all to behold in the face of Christ. Man’s eternal destiny—heaven or hell, salvation or damnation—depends solely on his response to this love."
"The Kingdom of heaven is already in the midst of those who live the spiritual life. What the spiritual person knows in the Holy Spirit, in Christ and the Church, will come with power and glory for all men to behold at the end of the ages.
The final coming of Christ will be the judgment of all men. His very presence will be the judgment. Now men can live without the love of Christ in their lives. They can exist as if there were no God, no Christ, no Spirit, no Church, no spiritual life. At the end of the ages this will no longer be possible. All men will have to behold the Face of Him who “for us men and our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate . . . who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried . . .” (Nicene Creed). All will have to look at Him whom they have crucified by their sins: Him “who was dead and is alive again” (Rev 1.17–18).
For those who love the Lord, His Presence will be infinite joy, paradise and eternal life. For those who hate the Lord, the same Presence will be infinite torture, hell and eternal death. The reality for both the saved and the damned will be exactly the same when Christ “comes in glory, and all angels with Him,” so that “God may be all in all” (1 Cor 15–28). Those who have God as their “all” within this life will finally have divine fulfillment and life. For those whose “all” is themselves and this world, the “all” of God will be their torture, their punishment and their death. And theirs will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Mt 8.21, et al.).
The Son of Man will send His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father (Mt 13.41–43).
According to the saints, the “fire” that will consume sinners at the coming of the Kingdom of God is the same “fire” that will shine with splendor in the saints. It is the “fire” of God’s love; the “fire” of God Himself who is Love. “For our God is a consuming fire” (Heb 12.29) who “dwells in unapproachable light” (1 Tim 6.16). For those who love God and who love all creation in Him, the “consuming fire” of God will be radiant bliss and unspeakable delight. For those who do not love God, and who do not love at all, this same “consuming fire” will be the cause of their “weeping” and their “gnashing of teeth.”
Thus it is the Church’s spiritual teaching that God does not punish man by some material fire or physical torment. God simply reveals Himself in the risen Lord Jesus in such a glorious way that no man can fail to behold His glory. It is the presence of God’s splendid glory and love that is the scourge of those who reject its radiant power and light.
. . . those who find themselves in hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo no greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in hell are deprived of the love of God . . . But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed! (Saint Isaac of Syria, Mystic Treatises).
This teaching is found in many spiritual writers and saints: Saint Maximus the Confessor, the novelist Fyodor Dostoevsky. At the end of the ages God’s glorious love is revealed for all to behold in the face of Christ. Man’s eternal destiny—heaven or hell, salvation or damnation—depends solely on his response to this love."
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ilovechloe
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Of course he has 'allowed' his interviews to be all over the internet. Its all free publicity for his book. That is the point of giving an interview in the 1st place.
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Silverback
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I cannot answer all your questions, however, hare are the highlights.
-Hell is a real place
-Hell is eternal
-He'll is punishment
-Hell is without pardon
-Hell is without mercy
-No one will ever leave Hell
-No one in Hell ever gets a break
-No one get a new trial
-There is no appeal
-People in Hell will know they are in He'll
-People in Hell will know what they missed out on
-No one will visit a person in Hell
-All sorrow, despair, hopelessness, shrieks, cries, regrett, and unanswered cries for mercy, and relief, but there will be none.
-No order, no rules, no deals, no small talk, no plans, no improvement, nothing will ever change for someone in hell, what they feel today, they will feel a million years from now.
but God showed his love here also...he sent you to the place you chose.
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ilovechloe
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Hell is just another sales tool for the church. The idea of a 'loving god' can only go so far towards converting people.
However the idea of being tormented in hell for eternity! If you can put enough fear into somebodies mind, then that is an extremely powerful motivator. It is also what KEEPS people in the faith. Many Christians have doubts about Gods existence, but there is always that fear in the back of their mind. What if it is all true? If I leave the church I might go to hell! I can guarantee if hell wasn't a thing, the size of the Christian church would be less than 1/4 of what it is now.
That is why the idea of hell evolved into the nastiest, most vile & torturous place that can be imagined. To put maximum fear into peoples minds, & keep them coming back to church!
In the Old Testament, hell barely got a mention, & it was thought that people who died just went into a deep sleep when they died. There was no concept of being tortured for eternity. That concept was a Christian invention, & it has worked very well to scare people into, & staying in Christianity!
Strange that God only thought to bring mankind's attention to hell around the time the Christian church was being formed, & that he never thought to make mention of it before that!
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He sure did make the predictions of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets come to life though.
Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience
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I have to admit that when I began to study near death experience accounts and ran into some negative ones it did put me into a philosophical crisis that resulted in my gaining some insight that later on i felt might be relevant to some Jewish scholars.
My conversation with the Rabbi.....
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ilovechloe
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The problem with near death experiences is that they are NEAR death. They arent actually dead! So who knows what is happening in their brain at this point.
I take near death experiences with a grain of salt as to actually describing what happens when we actually DO really die, & don't come back to talk or write books about it!
There is also no way of knowing how much that is written in books by people who want to sell books, actually DID really happen at the time of their near-death experience, & how much of it has been embellished to make the account far more interesting than it really was. After all, if you want people to buy & read your book, you have to make it really interesting & worthwhile reading!
I imagine you also have to pad the tale quite a bit, to make what may have been a 6 minute account stretch into many hours of reading.
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Your skepticism is understandable but perhaps you can see why I would be impressed by information like the following:
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aiki
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Yes.
Matthew 5:29
Matthew 10:28
Matthew 18:8-9
Matthew 23:33
Matthew 25:41, 46
2 Thessalonians 1:9
Hebrews 6:2
Revelation 14:10-11
Revelation 19:20
Revelation 20:10
Revelation 20:13-15
Revelation 21:8
Eternal. See above.
No. Hell is eternal punishment. Punishment necessarily entails consciousness. Annihilation ends consciousness and thus is not eternal punishment.
Yes. See above. See also Luke 16:19-31.
Revelation 14:10-11.
God is omniscient and omnipresent so in whatever way He is separate from those in Hell, it cannot be in a way that makes these characteristics of God no longer true.
God "governs" hell. No one reigns in hell as the ruler of it. It is not the devil's kingdom but his punishment. See above.
I don't know. The Bible doesn't say. Natural laws don't seem to be in force, however, in a place where the fire is never quenched, the worm never dies, and the forms of the damned are never consumed.
All things exist by the will and power of God - even hell.
No one knows.
Yes. See above.
Not sure. I doubt it, though. I think part of the torment of hell is that it is endured in total isolation.
Matthew 8:12
Matthew 13:50
Matthew 25:30
Probably, though not a language of hell.
See above.
You have more questions than I am inclined to answer. Really, they are rather beside the point. The main thing to understand about hell is that you don't want to go there and you don't have to.
John 3:16
Romans 10:9-10
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I guess you either believe what Jesus and Paul said about hell or you don't. If according to you, hell is just a sales tool for the church, then you may be saying that Jesus and Paul use the same technique to frighten people into the kingdom.
Using hell as a tool might apply to getting people to join a religion that has the appearance of Christianity, but genuine conversion to Christ comes about because the Holy Spirit enlightens a sinner to the truth of the gospel - that Jesus loves him and gave His life on the cross for him, and then gives him the saving faith to receive Christ. Unless the Holy Spirit gives a sinner saving faith to genuinely receive Christ as Saviour, the sinner is not saved, no matter how religious, how moral, how much of the Bible he knows and believes, how often he attends a Christian church, even becoming a deacon, elder, or even the pastor! If the Holy Spirit has not given the sinner saving faith, all that person has is the "badge" of Christian profession, and that is not enough to achieve genuine conversion to Christ.
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ilovechloe
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If we really want to know what happens after death, somebody should have interviewed Lazarus. He was supposedly dead for 4 days. I wonder why nobody did this?
I dont know why what he wrote would convince you that what he says is a true account of a near death experience.
He is an author after all. The job of fictional authors is to convince us that something is really true, when it really isnt. Now I know that the holocaust happened, I am not saying that bit isnt true. But did all this REALLY happen in the authors near death experience, or is he just using the craft of writing to convince the reader that it really happened?
I also wonder why, if God was so appalled at what was happening, he didnt intervene then & there. He surely has the power to, but he didnt. Apparently Same Sex Marriage is supposed to get God so riled up that that Jesus is going to return any year now, but if the holocaust didnt bring him back, the sorts of things being talked about today sure wont!
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So, when Jesus qualified most of His teaching with, "I am telling you the truth", He actually wasn't?
I think you are describing religious people who don't know God or Jesus at all, who are believing a false gospel, and engaging in an empty profession of the Christian religion without the indwelling Holy Spirit.
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ilovechloe
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Paul was a salesman. His job was selling the Death & Resurrection, & convincing people to convert.
We really have no idea what Jesus really said in his ministry, however the writers of the Gospels were also 'selling' the message! Since the Gospels were written well after Pauls day, I have no doubt that part of the message that Paul was selling found its way into Jesus mouth by the gospel writers.
Paul NEVER says that what he said about hell came from the word of God. It was HIS interpretation, or HIS embellishment!
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ilovechloe
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Can you tell me the bible passages where Jesus qualifies his teaching with "I am telling you the truth"?
I have never seen that phrase from Jesus mouth before. Maybe we have been reading a different gospel.
People who have to qualify their teaching with "I am telling the truth" usually aren't telling the truth, so I doubt that Jesus actually said that. But I could be mistaken. Just show me the verses.
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So you are saying that Paul is lying when he told the Galatians the following:
"I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ" (Galatians 1:11-12).
Paul is saying here that the gospel he preached was not just his interpretation, but he received it by direct revelation from Christ Himself. So, if you are accusing Paul of lying, then you can't believe anything else he says either. Therefore, everything he said about salvation, holy living, the resurrection, the importance of love, cannot apply to you because you don't believe he is telling the truth about these things.
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Read the gospel of John and take note of how many times He said it.
I take the position that the whole Bible is the inspired Word of God. It is God's communication to mankind concerning His nature, character, ways, and His plan of salvation. Everything that God has had to say concerning Himself and mankind is in the Bible. There is no other source of information. If we don't believe the Bible, then there is no way we can know about God, or how to be a genuinely converted Christian.
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ilovechloe
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What you are saying is just confirming what I said before. I said that if there was no hell, the church would be a less than 1/4 of the size that it is now.
That's because most 'Christians' who profess to be Christians, arent really Christians. Most never read the bible, & most don't understand the doctrine. They are in it because they were raised in it, & they got the fear of hell drummed into their brain from an early age, or some Christian missionary managed to convince them that hell is a real place, so they converted.
They are taking Pascal's wager, & that is all they are doing! That is why if you remove hell from the equation, you will lose 3/4 of the converts. The church knows that very well, which is why they have to keep the doctrine of hell as a real thing.
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