Salvation Cannot be Lost

Its God's Grace that saves us.

However good works are an obvious component of Faith. Faith without works is not enough.

"Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but rather he who does the will of my Father" (Matthew 7:21)

FreeGrace2 said:

Correct.


Actually, not. You are twisting the clear and simple meaning of "faith" and "believe" totally out of its true meaning. Please do your research on the words.

Both faith and believe EXCLUDE works of any kind.

This is PROVEN by the FACT that the Bible commands "good works" for the believer, one who is already saved.


Right. What is the "will of the Father"? Jesus answers that question in John 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

So, the Father's will is that everyone who believes will possess eternal life.

But you need to include the next 2 verses, for complete context for who this group is that Jesus addresses.

22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

v.22 reveals the basis for their expectation of entering the kingdom: their own works.

In fact, there is nothing in that verse about what Christ did for them or their faith in Him. Just works. Just Phariseeism.

v.23 proves the fact that this crowd never believed in Him. By His words "I NEVER knew you". He never had a relationship with them.

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Question. Are you saved..?

FreeGrace2 said:

I said:
"It's (belief) a passive response to God's promise through His Son."

I fully agree. And this doesn't mean it's a work either.

The "work" if fully God's. He provided the salvation through His Son. That was a mighty work, to pay for the sins of all of humanity.

In receiving a gift (for eternal life and salvation ARE gifts of God), the passive reception of that gift cannot by any stretch of the imagination be called a work.

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By "passive", I guess you mean...Don't do anything to acknowledge you are now a Christian.
Like turn from sin permanently, of get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, or remain faithful till the end of your life.
"Passive" faith is dead faith.
I chose to "actively" receive the 'good news' by permanently repenting of all sin and having my past sins washed away bu the blood of Christ at my baptism into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection.
Having crucified the flesh, with the affections and lusts, I can actively reject temptation till Jesus returns.

Your doctrine actually eliminates love of neighbor by making it practically 'verboten' to do anything for others.

Phil W said:

Your doctrine actually eliminates love of neighbor by making it practically 'verboten' to do anything for others.

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I don't think it is "his" doctrine .... the doctrine being posted about though is far far worse than just what you say here. I don't think there is any way on this forum to actually correct it though. As God said about many? things - with man it is impossible, with God all things are possible. God Wiling. And if the person is willing. God won't violate His Own Word.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

I don't think it is "his" doctrine .... the doctrine being posted about though is far far worse than just what you say here. I don't think there is any way on this forum to actually correct it though. As God said about many? things - with man it is impossible, with God all things are possible. God Wiling. And if the person is willing. God won't violate His Own Word.

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I chose to target the doctrine.
It is really difficult to unlearn bad habits.
By patience and Godly sincerity, perhaps in time he will see the "better" path.
Loving God and neighbor is not a "passive" endeavor.

Phil W said:

I chose to target the doctrine instead of the writer.
......

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That's sort of what I meant or was aiming at - posting not as if it is "his" doctrine, nor about any person, (which you might edit out of the last post now) ...
but the doctrine in question/ topically that is being discussed or debated, etc ... .

When taken in context, the verses do not prove the doctrine.

FreeGrace2 said:

Please explain how. Show how context changes my view of the verses I have shared.

Just making a claim is of no benefit or use. What is needed is an explanation to SHOW HOW context changes my view of the verses.

Unless that can be shown, my view of the verses stands.

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(edit in: just noticed the section this thread is in, so I think we cannot debate this in this thread, in this section)

So last post here:
I don't believe that Context will change YOUR VIEW. I believe that no amount of Scripture nor Wisdom nor Understanding that others have
will change your view,
apparently.

Isn't that correct ? (Yahuweh Willing, eventually anyway, to be followed up in another thread where debate, etc, is allowed)

FreeGrace2 said:

Answer. Absolutely.

Now my question. Have you researched the meaning of "believe" in a Greek lexicon?

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So no matter what evil you might do in the future, your Salvation is assured..?

FreeGrace2 said:

Your gues is quite incorrect. I was speaking in reference to the passive voice of the Greek language. It means the action is produced from an outside source; iow, not your own action. Like salvation.

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So it is a forced faith, a forced belief, and a forced salvation.
I can't agree.

The active voice means the action is produced by yourself. I hope you are clear now.

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I know that I wasn't forced to love God above all else and love my neighbor as I love myself.
Of course your doctrine sorrowfully dispenses with that all together.

Let's not make up phony words and phrases to advance your own opinions. Let's just stay with what the Bible says and the words it uses.
Where is the verse that says that you can "permanently repent of ALL sin"? You've never proven that.

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The definition of "repent" that I use, from the Strong's Concordance is "Turn from", or, "Change".
If you turn from sin it must be 100%, or it is just a partial "turn" or "change".

In fact, i've shared many verses that prove the opposite. That believers STILL have their original sinful nature, and are not only capable of sin, but STILL sin. But you have "actively chosen" to ignore all those verses and opine that you no longer have a sinful nature and no longer are able to sin. Totally unbiblical.

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You proved nothing. You just keep saying the same wrong thing over and over again with a false belief it is true.
2 Cr 5:17 says..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new".
That includes nature.

I understand that you do not understand what "crucify the flesh" even means.

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As Romans 6;3-7 describes how it happens, and the results of it happening, I understand it perfectly.
Especially after seeing the verse 7 results in my own life...thanks be to God.

We are commanded to love the brethren PRECISELY because we don't naturally do that. If your theories and opinions were true, there would be no need for any such command. It would be automatic.
But apparently this obvious fact has eluded you.

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Why would we be commanded to do something that doesn't matter, as we already have salvation locked up no matter what or who we obey? (According to your doctrine)
Not everyone reading scripture has been reborn; and Jesus', Paul"s, Peter's, John's, and James' commands allow them to see the expected way reborn, repentant, lovers of God are to act.
You have trouble with commandments because it doesn't mesh with your "passive" doctrine of "God does it all for us".
He is no respector of persons.
If we disobey Him, we perish.

FreeGrace2 said:

As in "attack"?? That's what you're doing. I've given the biblical doctrines, and you've attacked them.

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And I've refuted them with scripture, and you attack them.

The better path is to follow what the Bible says.

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Like what Peter said in Acts 2:38? ..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Not much "passivity" there.
We are told to do something for salvation.