What would happen to the creation/evolution debate...

Phil W said:

An alternative to creation based on a loving God who gives us everything we require to love each other.

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What evidence?
You made an assertion, that is not evidence.
Kids can pray in school all they want. It is just that teachers/administrators cannot force or try to coerce kids into accepting their religious myths.
Why is that a bad thing?

The "system" tries to remove any evidence of the real God, and the ways and means of life without corruption.

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Yes yes yes, you keep repeating this slogan, yet cannot actually say what 'evidence' you are referring to.

Any ideas as to why there is so much drug abuse, abortion, racism, and massacres at crowded places?

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Ummm.... Failed economic policies leading to poverty and despair?
Rape and incest and an inability to pay for an unwanted fetus?
Racism - hmmm.... If you look around, the most obvious racists are religious - and they link their racism with Christianity:



Or:

Henry Morris, PhD, creatonist, minister. The Beginning of the World: A scientific study of Genesis 1-11.


Massacres? Really? Try the effect of the gun lobby on slimy politicians playing to their paranoid, hate-filled base?

Having been taught by the "system" that there is no God, it is easy to live a life with our own scale of morality instead of a scale based on love.

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You're not so good on history, are you?

Phil W said:

The "system" tries to remove any evidence of the real God, and the ways and means of life without corruption.
Any ideas as to why there is so much drug abuse, abortion, racism, and massacres at crowded places?
Having been taught by the "system" that there is no God, it is easy to live a life with our own scale of morality instead of a scale based on love.

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The nazis did that 'system' on purpose, including using evolution to separate children from their parents ways of faith. It was not "easy", but it 'worked' for those who went along with it, just like it is written "the world(system, society) loves its own", just like in the USA, although there are still many conflicts in all the different groups, rich and poor... etc ...

Bungle_Bear said:

That is more of a problem in USA than elsewhere. Odd that USA claims to be more Christian than other countries. Please explain.

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I think for decades the USA government has consider "Christian faith" to be an enemy of the state.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

I think for decades the USA government has consider "Christian faith" to be an enemy of the state.

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And for some meanings of the word "Christian" they are wise to do so. See, for example, the Christians depicted in post #181.

Speedwell said:

And for some meanings of the word "Christian" they are wise to do so. See, for example, the Christians depicted in post #181.

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The US Government is not ever wise , or hardly ever. Regarding anything at all....

oh, it is concerning maybe for PROFIT , for POWER , i.e world wise, some ...

.. not good for us ....

FrumiousBandersnatch said:

Wait... who said Christians are dumb?

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The whole in this thread about how christians don't know about biology and are uneducated etc doesn't give you a clue they may think christians are dumb?

NBB said:

The whole in this thread about how christians don't know about biology and are uneducated etc doesn't give you a clue they may think christians are dumb?

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Only if you think that not being educated makes you dumb.

I think that's a dumb idea.

What annoys people who are educated in some subject is when people who aren't educated in that subject claim to know better. This is sometimes known as the 'Dunning-Kruger effect' (or 'little do they know how little they know'), where their ignorance of the subject prevents them from realising how wrong they are about it.

... I thought dumb meant could not speak ....? As in deaf and dumb, not related to education....

NBB said:

The whole in this thread about how christians don't know about biology and are uneducated etc doesn't give you a clue they may think christians are dumb?

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Not being educated in a particular topic does not make one "dumb." It merely makes one uneducated in a particular topic.
Further, no one claimed that Christians in general are uneducated in biology. Indeed, some of the leading biological scientists are Christians.
But it is a fact, based on reliable survey results, that biblical Creationists, as a subset of Christians, are not generally well educated in biology.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

... I thought dumb meant could not speak ....? As in deaf and dumb, not related to education....

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Yes, it's a poor word to choose. "Ignorant" would be better.

NBB said:

The whole in this thread about how christians don't know about biology and are uneducated etc doesn't give you a clue they may think christians are dumb?

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not knowing something doesn't make you dumb, hawking may be ignorant on biology may not, but would you call him dumb for not understanding it? Of course not, not knowing something isn't the issue, it's when you don't know something, but assert you know better then those that do know a subject. Seen in this topic many times creationists not only not knowing a subject, but telling scientists what THEY should know about a subject, complaining for scientists not using creationist arguments and such.

I'm a christian and don't think other christians are stupid, just lack the basic knowledge in the things they are trying to argue. No offense, but when I see creationists making rudimentary mistakes about evolution I can't take anything else they say seriously about evolution.

NBB said:

The whole in this thread about how christians don't know about biology and are uneducated etc doesn't give you a clue they may think christians are dumb?

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Ignorance is not the same thing as being dumb. EVERYONE is ignorant about a great many things.

loveofourlord said:

Don't pretend it has anything to do with evidence proving evolution, it's what you think counts as evidence as if your the arbiter of what actually is or isn't science or evidence.

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?

Of courses I'm the arbitrator for what I choose to conclude is evidence/proof or not. Do you really think I should take the word of anyone without examining it for myself? That may be your way but not mine. You only find something so clearly reasonable as unreasonable because you have run out of defense, and need to "pretend" I'm the problem. Seriously, to check the evidence for ourselves is so basic a concept, it really appears odd when one considers that unreasonable...a clutching at straws type of odd.

Oh, BTW, do you have that proof? If so, please present it, and explain how it's proof, so I can have at least something to examine. Or is that an unreasonable expectation as well?

Kenny'sID said:

?

Of courses I'm the arbitrator for what I choose to conclude is evidence/proof or not. Do you really think I should take the word of anyone without examining it for myself? That may be your way but not mine. You only find something so clearly reasonable as unreasonable because you have run out of defense, and need to "pretend" I'm the problem. Seriously, to check the evidence for ourselves is so basic a concept, it really appears odd when one considers that unreasonable...a clutching at straws type of odd.

Oh, BTW, do you have that proof? If so, please present it, and explain how it's proof, so I can have at least something to examine. Or is that an unreasonable expectation as well?

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we already have, and you've shown yourself incapable of understanding it by your answers. You can conclude all you want, it's when you guys say stuff like, "Science needs to stop calling whale evolution evolution it's lying." and such, I know not you but it's been going on. Truth is truth, your allowed your own opinions but not your own facts. Kinda tired of playing the game of, I show evidence, and then instead of giving refutations your responses are, "Well thats not proof." or other hand waving dissmisive arguments. If you want to convince me that evolution is wrong, you need better arguments then a 5 year olds, "Uhuh."

loveofourlord said:

we already have,

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Cool, show me where and I'll tell you if it's proof evolution or if there are problems with. As I recall there were problems with it, as there always is, and you kept skipping questions on your so-called proof.

loveofourlord said:

Truth is truth, your allowed your own opinions but not your own facts.

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I think you're just making up nonsense now, and attempting to twist out of what you said earlier. Or you are confused on what I was saying.

What are those facts you claim i am allowed...sorry, that made little sense to me.

loveofourlord said:

I can't take anything else they say seriously about evolution.

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Good for you. This is good. (not the way usually thought however)....

yeshuaslavejeff said:

The nazis did that 'system' on purpose, including using evolution to separate children from their parents ways of faith. It was not "easy", but it 'worked' for those who went along with it, just like it is written "the world(system, society) loves its own", just like in the USA, although there are still many conflicts in all the different groups, rich and poor... etc ...

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The nazis eliminated the "different" by killing them.
So did the Russians and the Chinese.
Is that the future in an atheist America?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

I think for decades the USA government has consider "Christian faith" to be an enemy of the state.

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Not the "real" Christians, just the "posers".

Phil W said:

The nazis eliminated the "different" by killing them.
So did the Russians and the Chinese.
Is that the future in an atheist America?

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TODAY there is enough SIN for TODAY.
That has been going on in America for a long, long time. I don't know how many generations... nor is it generally acknowledged , nor accepted, by unbelievers, any more than it was admitted publicly in Germany.