Family Upset Brother Killed
- Thread starter Ana the Ist
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Apparently. And without talking to the person you have no way to know if they were doing it because of financial strain, etc. as suggested earlier as a root cause, or because they are a thrill seeker, or someone who tortured animals as a child and enjoys inflicting pain.
Crime is often associated with poverty. But each person can make decisions on their own as well, and they are not always obvious just from the act itself.
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Zoii
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Heck. What on earth. If you don't understand then I suggest you at least make half an attempt and goggle the process. Professing something you have no knowledge of is plain ignorant.
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Zoii
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Well that's about as ignorant an uninformed comment I've seen here.
Instead of criticising something you have zero knowledge about..... Oh heck no go ahead. It's the general standard here on CF. Don't research a comment your about to make.
But hey it's good enough for your health system, police system and most social and mechanical industries. But Im sure you guys know better.
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- Sep 23, 2005
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You were the one who (after discussing guns for several posts as the elephant in the room) went on to say you are studying RCA, and that should be the direction of the discussion here.
You are the one stating you are familiar with the process, and claiming it can help. If we then ask questions about how it relates to this incident you can hardly blame us for trying to understand what you said should be the direction of this thread.
In the other thread I tried to understand as well, and even asked if you had information on an example you cited.
What I have read so far is dealing with mechanical systems. It seems to work great for that. Your characterization of it so far does not seem to explain how it applies to such situations as we see here. And you call us ignorant for asking questions, and say it is typical of CF.
If you claim to have a great system that explains things you might expect some questions concerning it.
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- Sep 23, 2005
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Are you completely sure he has no knowledge of crime investigation, which you claim uses your method? I think you might want to ask more questions.
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- Sep 23, 2005
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Do you have any completed analysis of an actual incident that applies to this kind of problem? If so, then post it for our learning.
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- Sep 23, 2005
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Now in the other thread I mentioned that it would be rather difficult to know what would motivate someone to stab someone while in a line without actually talking to them.
You emphasized that the system is objective and doesn't rely on such things.
Here again you say it is ignorant because I suggest a system that does not try to ask about motives but only looks at actions would have a hard time explaining why some things happened.
Yet that seems obvious. In a mechanical system you can trace back what went wrong physically.
In a system that involves motives that could be quite varied I am not sure how you get to "root causes" by only looking at the actions.
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- Sep 23, 2005
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From what I am seeing in the below article it does involve statements from involved parties when possible, while being careful to consider who is biased and emotional.
Vera Institute
Within a closed system such as a prison I can see how they might look at steps they could take to reduce suicide.
I can see how the store owner could try to take steps to reduce risk from robbery (though I would imagine people hearing an employee there shot a robber might dissuade some as it is).
However, determining the factors that led the shooter to take this action seems a bit more elusive. But I would agree with Ana, that despite the emotional bias of the sister, we should listen to statements from family.
Vera Institute
Within a closed system such as a prison I can see how they might look at steps they could take to reduce suicide.
I can see how the store owner could try to take steps to reduce risk from robbery (though I would imagine people hearing an employee there shot a robber might dissuade some as it is).
However, determining the factors that led the shooter to take this action seems a bit more elusive. But I would agree with Ana, that despite the emotional bias of the sister, we should listen to statements from family.
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This is a direct analogy. It's based entirely on the claims you've made in this thread....and the fact that you've switched to attacking me just makes me think I'm correct.
You've claimed that...
1. This particular type of analysis is extremely effective at finding the root cause of problems.
2. It doesn't examine anything subjective like human choices, perspectives, or mindsets.
3. It doesn't blame people.
Unless you were wrong about the analysis, it seems you'd have to blame the prevalence of alcohol. If that sounds like a stupid argument to you....I'd agree....and point out the same applies for blaming the prevalence of guns in the case of the OP.
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BigDaddy4
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I live the process and I think you are way off base with your assessments. If you are only studying RCA, then you have a lot more learning to do. I wouldn't be so quick to point the finger of ignorance to other posters, as you have 3 pointing back at you.
Now, since RCA methodology is not the topic of the thread, why not address the OP instead?
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That doesn't make any sense though. The legislature, in a republic, represents the population. So it's the population legislating vicariously. If the population does not have the right to carry firearms, then how can it delegate that right to it's civil servants?
Think of it like a Home Owner's Association in a gated community. Say the HOA votes to hire a security guard to patrol the neighborhood. The HOA may delegate rights and powers to the guard which home owners already have. EG chasing away a robber or taking care of a stray dog. The HOA, representing the home owners, may not vote to have the guard take a painting from your living room and put it in another house, enter your house and eat all your Doritos, etc, because the members of the HOA, as members of the community, do not have the right to begin with.
Saying "let's legislate" does not magically take people and give them the power to delegate rights they do not have. Legislators are just people, like anyone else. If the people do not have a right to begin with then putting on a cap that says "Legislator" does not suddenly grant you the ability to delegate rights you do not have.
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