Is Trump Wrong In Saying a Coup?

lasthero said:

I really don't understand why so many conservatives seem averse to the idea of Pence taking his place. He'll literally do everything Donald would do, but they wouldn't have to hold their noses and ignore all his infidelity, vulgarity, and bullying. Pence is exactly the sort of person they WISH Donald was.

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"So many conservatives" are not averse to Pence. He has long been one of their favorites.

What they are averse to is impeaching the president simply for having won the election of 2016 and using phony reasons for doing so...which will also put Pence into the White House. But it's not for disliking Pence!

Oh boy are you wrong.

Appx 25% of America, or 1/2 of "the right", really likes Trump's bomb throwing, chronic lying, and global dictator-envy..... his persona generally.

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I know made-up "statistics" when I see them.

Albion said:

"So many conservatives" are not averse to Pence. He has long been one of their favorites.

What they are averse to is impeaching the president simply for having won the election of 2016 and using phony reasons for doing so...which will also put Pence into the White House. But it's not for disliking Pence!

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You don't ever stop to wonder why Democrats are working so hard to replace Trump with Pence--who would be more effective in pursuing conservative policy than Trump ever was?

98cwitr said:

I am afraid that is more of a testament of those who throw themselves at rich men, than this particular rich man himself.

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Such denial. Sad.

98cwitr said:

We dont believe he has the cojones necessary to keep this country from going down the dangerous road the socialists wish to take us down.

Rand or Cruz would be good picks, but none of them will fight as hard as Trump will.

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You mean do illegal thing, harass, and try to get people to do his dirty work. While Conservatives Christian approve of Trumps behavior. I'm betting Kids and teens see this. And they will see Christian as hypocrites. And join the liberals.

Bobber said:

I'd say it's not in the strictest and legal way of using the term as long as the process of impeachment would take place in a legal way...that means yielding to the judgment of the Senate if they so chose not to remove but keep in mind this one thing....the very whistle blower's lawyer Mark S Zain....look at the rhetoric he was using in January 2017, on twitter:

#coup has started. First of many steps. #rebellion. #impeachment will follow ultimately. #lawyers https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/826255624610729985 …

And again keep this in mind. This is the whistle blower's lawyer saying that a few years back. He was probably meaning by it a resistance but he still used the term COUP. It makes me wonder though in other times if even the using of this word against a duly elected President would have been tolerated without a knock on the door by the secret service? A coup IS an illegal action and does not his words seek to incite such?

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Yes.

ICYMI, I'm copying and pasting my post in response to our discussion of this in another thread, but reversing the order to put your chosen source at the top.

For the record, Rep. Steve Chabot, a Republican from Ohio, was among those pushing back on the "coup" narrative during the 1998 debate:

"As to those who mistakenly claim that this body is seeking to overturn an election or we are involved in a coup d’etat, let me remind my friends on the other side of the aisle that it is the Democratic (Republican) Vice President, Al Gore (Mike Pence), who would become President if the Senate decides to remove President Clinton (Trump) because of his crimes and remove him from office."

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Steve Chabot was correct. I modernized his statement in the parentheses.

If you click on the link in the post of mine you have quoted and scroll down you can read the acknowledgement that some Democrats described the 1998 impeachment of President Clinton as a coup, and the admonishment for them doing so. They were rightfully rebuked at the time as well, and unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Republicans who wagged their fingers at the Democrats who improperly used the word coup then are now repeating the history instead of learning from it. A wrong isn't made right because of evidence that someone else did it first; the wrong is compounded by it being duplicated despite knowing it to be wrong.

As my source explains and your source implicitly confirms, President Clinton himself did not improperly use the word coup by describing his impeachment proceedings as such. Donald Trump has not only personally misappropriated the word, he's actively encouraged its usage. Yes, hyperbolic rhetoric isn't a rarity in politics, but it's not benign either.

From my source:

In addition to weakening constitutional directives at home, the use of "coup" sends a signal to anti-democratic forces overseas, said Anthony Clark Arend, a professor of government and foreign service at Georgetown University.

"At a time when the rule of law is under threat in both the United States and throughout the world, I think it is important to differentiate the legitimate impeachment process from illegal attempts to overthrow a government," Arend said. "People may differ on whether they believe there is sufficient evidence to merit impeachment or removal from office, but the use of the impeachment process as established in the Constitution does not constitute a ‘coup.’'

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Bobber said:

Thus making my point. The other side has done this as well.

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Thus showing that you failed to get the point. Dang, she even quoted the source that you chose, explained it all to you twice, and still this is where you are. Smh.

Go Braves said:

Thus showing that you failed to get the point. Dang, she even quoted the source that you chose, explained it all to you twice, and still this is where you are. Smh.

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Some people only see what they want to see.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

You mean do illegal thing, harass, and try to get people to do his dirty work. While Conservatives Christian approve of Trumps behavior. I'm betting Kids and teens see this. And they will see Christian as hypocrites. And join the liberals.

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One of the reasons why few teens stick around here, in fact.

We also see these grown folks using the kind of dumb whataboutism reasoning that good coaches don't accept from kids on their Little League team. No way on God's green Earth could we have gotten away with a bad behavior by pointing to another team saying "the other side has done this as well." Then having the temerity to stand there acting like we'd just made our point with that. Especially not if we'd put on a big stink about that other side doing that, had seen them get corrected on that. And we'd still had the full on stupidity to not only do it anyways but to a much greater extent. Yet that's what folks in Donald's base are doing right here.

Assuming Trump isn't removed from office and re-elected in 2020 and he survives until the end of his second term, he'll call the fact he can't have a third term a coup, and some of his supporters will be saying that either Trump should get unlimited turns or they will start shooting liberals.

Bobber said:

I'd say it's not in the strictest and legal way of using the term as long as the process of impeachment would take place in a legal way...that means yielding to the judgment of the Senate if they so chose not to remove but keep in mind this one thing....the very whistle blower's lawyer Mark S Zain....look at the rhetoric he was using in January 2017, on twitter:

#coup has started. First of many steps. #rebellion. #impeachment will follow ultimately. #lawyers https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/826255624610729985 …

And again keep this in mind. This is the whistle blower's lawyer saying that a few years back. He was probably meaning by it a resistance but he still used the term COUP. It makes me wonder though in other times if even the using of this word against a duly elected President would have been tolerated without a knock on the door by the secret service? A coup IS an illegal action and does not his words seek to incite such?

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As with many statements .... Trump is lying.

98cwitr said:

I am afraid that is more of a testament of those who throw themselves at rich men, than this particular rich man himself.

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Is Trump accountable for his actions?

Bobber said:

I guess the question is why do you think he embarrasses the country on the world stage.

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For me, it is because I keep track of current events : UN members laugh at Trump after 'most accomplishments in US history' claim

98cwitr said:

We dont believe he has the cojones necessary to keep this country from going down the dangerous road the socialists wish to take us down.

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Plus there's no guarantee he'll side with Russian leadership against our own intelligence services. Can't forget that gem.

98cwitr said:

I'm not really gonna chew on that. It's not an attack on the president so much as an attack on every conservative American, their values and ideologies.

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I don't think every conservative American feels the need to support someone who got his attorney thrown in jail for paying of a inappropriate content star he had sex with while his wife was at home with their newborn.

I mean obviously some do, but not all of them.

Albion said:

What they are averse to is impeaching the president simply for having won the election of 2016 and using phony reasons for doing so

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Weird these people would be so worried about something which isn't happening. Perhaps they should look to more reliable sources of information about current events.

Albion said:

"So many conservatives" are not averse to Pence. He has long been one of their favorites.

What they are averse to is impeaching the president simply for having won the election of 2016 and using phony reasons for doing so...which will also put Pence into the White House. But it's not for disliking Pence!

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Why are Donald's supporters so obsessed with the 2016 election? Why can't they stay focused on Donald's current actions?

98cwitr said:

I am afraid that is more of a testament of those who throw themselves at rich men, than this particular rich man himself.

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Wow.
Come on, man, you don’t have to defend everything Trump says. Even he admits that one was over the line - granted, he had to in order to save his campaign, but still.

Bobber said:

I'd say it's not in the strictest and legal way of using the term as long as the process of impeachment would take place in a legal way...that means yielding to the judgment of the Senate if they so chose not to remove but keep in mind this one thing....the very whistle blower's lawyer Mark S Zain....look at the rhetoric he was using in January 2017, on twitter:

#coup has started. First of many steps. #rebellion. #impeachment will follow ultimately. #lawyers https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/826255624610729985 …

And again keep this in mind. This is the whistle blower's lawyer saying that a few years back. He was probably meaning by it a resistance but he still used the term COUP. It makes me wonder though in other times if even the using of this word against a duly elected President would have been tolerated without a knock on the door by the secret service? A coup IS an illegal action and does not his words seek to incite such?

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Coup means a brilliant move or highly successful stroke, so Trump could be seen as saying that the Democrat's impeachment process is a brilliant move. Coup d'état would be a more proper term if he was trying to say that what the Dems were doing may be seen as illegal. Regardless, what they are doing is perfectly legal and follows the US Constitution.