Is this way out there on the fringe?

SkyWriting · Nov 6, 2019

BryanJohnMaloney said:
3. Christ lacked the full power of God. For example, Christ could not resurrect Himself. It was not stated in a functional sense that the Father was the prime mover of resurrection. It was flatly stated that the Son did not have the ability to resurrect himself. The Son was a lesser entity than was the Father!

The Father was not able to grow a beard and wear sandals, but that doesn't mean The Father was "less powerful" than Jesus.

sdowney717 · Nov 6, 2019

If God cant see sinners as they are invisible to Him, then how can God judge them?
Example Revelation 20
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Here may be some help as to where that false idea comes from that God can not see sinners.
God Cannot Look Upon Sin?

And the other thing is, you can not correct these people, especially preachers who have been deluded. They will just say you are wrong and they are right.

God must grant repentance for them to know the truth. I think very few preachers actually think they are preaching lies, maybe a few. You get into doctrinal errors and teaching and your dealing with spiritual warfare against the devil. And these people have pride, if they admit their error, then they have to realize what they have been teaching all along is error.

Dave-W · Nov 6, 2019

sdowney717 said:
If God cant see sinners as they are invisible to Him, then how can God judge them?
Example Revelation 20

If God cannot see sinners, that is a serious blow to God being omniscient.

BryanJohnMaloney · Nov 6, 2019

SkyWriting said:
The Father was not able to grow a beard and wear sandals, but that doesn't mean The Father was "less powerful" than Jesus.

Could you quote Scripture saying the Father lacked the capacity to do such things?

BryanJohnMaloney · Nov 6, 2019

DennisTate said:
Regarding point number three.....

John 14:28 "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."

Jhn 10:29 "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

Jhn 5:30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

Jhn 5:36 "But I have a greater witness than John—my teachings and my miracles. The Father gave me these works to accomplish, and they prove that he sent me."
Moses was given the miracle of his staff turning into a serpent..... but Moses himself did not do this himself with his own mental abilities.

Therefore, in your doctrine, only the Father is God.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 6, 2019

SkyWriting said:
The Father was not able to grow a beard and wear sandals, but that doesn't mean The Father was "less powerful" than Jesus.

The Father in heaven GREW MILLIONS OF BEARDS, throughout all history.... HE IS the GIVER OF LIFE, and GROWTH ! Every (EVERY) Good Gift is from above (from the Father).

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 6, 2019

BryanJohnMaloney said:
It was flatly stated that the Son did not have the ability to resurrect himself.

It was flatly stated NOWHERE. (not in Scripture)

BryanJohnMaloney said:
The Son was a lesser entity than was the Father!

Ditto. (not in Scripture)
".....
Colossians 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity ...

Colossians 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form.
For the entire fullness of God's nature dwells bodily in Christ, International Standard Version because all the essence of deity inhabits him in bodily form. NET Bible For in him all the fullness of deity lives in bodily form, New Heart English Bible For in him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, Aramaic Bible in Plain English

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 6, 2019

BryanJohnMaloney said:
Therefore, in your doctrine, only the Father is God.

Did Dennis say that specifically? In many of his posts similar differences might be seen, but this one - did he post that specifically?

Nige55 · Nov 6, 2019

Sounds crazy! Clearly too much time, imagination and not enough scripture.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 6, 2019

Nige55 said:
Sounds crazy! Clearly too much time, imagination and not enough scripture.

???

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Act wisely toward outsiders, redeeming the time. Treasury of Scripture. Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Redeeming. Ecclesiastes 9:10
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Ephesians 5:16 KJV - Redeeming the time, because the days ...

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For he says, “In a favorable time I listened to you, and in a day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the favorable time; behold, now is the day of ...

Nige55 · Nov 6, 2019

The 'scooped up' part made me chuckle. Can't really imagine God reaching forth and saying - drat ! I thought my son was here, but it's another pesky hidden sinner ! I really should stop falling for this.

Nige55 · Nov 6, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
???

About 9,240,000 results (0.70 seconds)
Search Results
Web results
Ephesians 5:16 redeeming the time, because the ... - Bible Hub

https://biblehub.com › ephesians
Act wisely toward outsiders, redeeming the time. Treasury of Scripture. Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Redeeming. Ecclesiastes 9:10
‎Ephesians 5:16 KJV · ‎Ephesians 5:16 Commentaries · ‎Ephesians 5:16 NLT
Ephesians 5:16 KJV - Redeeming the time, because the days ...

https://www.biblegateway.com › passage
Ephesians 5:16 King James Version (KJV). 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. King James Version (KJV). Public Domain · Ephesians 5:16 in all ...
What Does the Bible Say About Redeeming Time?

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For he says, “In a favorable time I listened to you, and in a day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the favorable time; behold, now is the day of ...

I meant whoever dreamt up these notions had clearly too much time on their hands, and used it unwisely.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 6, 2019

Nige55 said:
I meant whoever dreamt up these notions had clearly too much time on their hands, and used it unwisely.

I thought so and agree - almost every one on earth is that way... and we cannot do anything really, about everyone on earth, nor
about even everyone on the internet, can we ?

So the Permanent, Eternal Instructions (like and with the ones I posted)
from the Creator are the ONLY HOPE for people to hang on to, to seek diligently with their whole hearts, and to trust HIM TO HELP/ SAVE/ TO HEAL ....

aiki · Nov 6, 2019

BryanJohnMaloney said:
I'm posting here because I don't know where else to post it.

Some time ago I attended a congregation that was within the SBC. I understand that SBC is pretty hands off regarding individual congregations, so nothing that I relate ought to reflect on them. Anyway, over the couple of years I attended, I heard the following from the pulpit, multiple times:

1. God lacks the ability to see sinners. Sinners are actually invisible to God! That is why He can't save them. It is not that God refuses to regard sinners. It was explained clearly that God lacks the ability to perceive them.

2. God can be tricked into saving sinners if they are "covered with the Blood of Christ". Then God only sees His Son and not the sinner, so God can reach down to save His Son! The sinner basically gets scooped along, because God can't see sinners, but God will see the Blood and save His Son!

3. Christ lacked the full power of God. For example, Christ could not resurrect Himself. It was not stated in a functional sense that the Father was the prime mover of resurrection. It was flatly stated that the Son did not have the ability to resurrect himself. The Son was a lesser entity than was the Father!

Are these beliefs widespread, or are they confined to a few parishes, here and there?

I'm not of the SBC, but I have been a member of the Baptist denomination all my life. At no time have I ever heard these things taught in any of the Baptist churches of which I've been a part.

Some of point #3, however, has solid scriptural grounds. Scripture speaks of Christ setting aside his heavenly glory and power to become a man. (Philippians 2:5-11) Scripture also tells us that Christ did not raise himself from the dead but was raised from the dead by God the Father (Acts 2:23-24; Acts 2:32; Acts 3:15; Acts 3:26; Acts 5:30; Romans 10:9; 1 Corinthians 6:14; etc.) Does this mean Christ was a "lesser entity" than God the Father? No. This conclusion is a non sequitur and appears to ignore verses like:

Colossians 1:15
15 He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God...

Colossians 2:9
For in him (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Ohj1n37 · Nov 6, 2019

BryanJohnMaloney said:
1. God lacks the ability to see sinners. Sinners are actually invisible to God! That is why He can't save them. It is not that God refuses to regard sinners. It was explained clearly that God lacks the ability to perceive them.

2. God can be tricked into saving sinners if they are "covered with the Blood of Christ". Then God only sees His Son and not the sinner, so God can reach down to save His Son! The sinner basically gets scooped along, because God can't see sinners, but God will see the Blood and save His Son!

3. Christ lacked the full power of God. For example, Christ could not resurrect Himself. It was not stated in a functional sense that the Father was the prime mover of resurrection. It was flatly stated that the Son did not have the ability to resurrect himself. The Son was a lesser entity than was the Father!

Saw this on the front page and thought I would share my thoughts.

Okay so the first thing I would like say is I wouldn't doubt if these things are widespread. Many people will try to limit God's infinite power due to the limited capacity of the human mind. How I was raised is that anything that tries to limit God's power is simply not true. God's power is limitless. God knows everything. God can not be tricked. Jesus is God and is all powerful.

The most important thing you can remember is that if something or someone tries to say God's power is limited they are wrong. It is true that God sometimes allows bad stuff to happen, but this does not mean his power is limited, people just have limited understanding.

Finally, I will leave you with a part of a post I made on a separate thread. I hope it helps someone in some way.

Ohj1n37 said:
I am Presbyterian and had always been taught about predestination my entire life. What I am about to discuss is information I believe I have come to know through reading God's word and prayer.

So first thing is everyone is predestined because God knows everything. Some people think because God knows what will happen that this means we do not get to choose, but this is not true. Just because God knows what you or anybody will choose before you choose it doesn't mean you don't have free will. God simply knows what you will choose before you choose. This is like if you were to know the future does suddenly everybody from the parts of the future you know not have free will? Free will does not require not knowing what someone will choose. Free will requires that someone has the capability to make a decision without being forced to come to that decision.

Now when it comes to salvation, God predestined certain people to be saved by how he designed salvation. God wanted only humble people who choose to love him to be saved. He did this by becoming human and then dying in very humble way to confound the proud and fool those who lust after power.

Here's an example if the previous explanation did not suffice. If God wanted to save only the rich he would have designed salvation so that only those with large sums of money would be saved. If God wanted to save only the famous he would have designed salvation so that only those with a certain amount fame would be saved. If God wanted to save only the talented he would have designed salvation so that only those with so much talent would be saved. The thing is he didn't. He wants those who honestly love him to be saved, those who are humble , those who need a savior.

Paraphrasing from scripture, if there was a man with debt and one with a greater debt and they were both forgiven of their debts, who would love the one who released them of their debts more?

Today many people do not even think they have done any wrong or don't care, so guess how much they care when they are told their debts are forgiven. This is the way God has predestined those who are saved and those who are not. God has designed salvation so that the people who choose to love him and seek him will be the ones that are saved, not those with the most money, fame, talent or what have you. So if this true this means he has also predestined those who choose not to love or seek him to not be saved.

fhansen · Nov 6, 2019

BryanJohnMaloney said:
I'm posting here because I don't know where else to post it.

Some time ago I attended a congregation that was within the SBC. I understand that SBC is pretty hands off regarding individual congregations, so nothing that I relate ought to reflect on them. Anyway, over the couple of years I attended, I heard the following from the pulpit, multiple times:

1. God lacks the ability to see sinners. Sinners are actually invisible to God! That is why He can't save them. It is not that God refuses to regard sinners. It was explained clearly that God lacks the ability to perceive them.

2. God can be tricked into saving sinners if they are "covered with the Blood of Christ". Then God only sees His Son and not the sinner, so God can reach down to save His Son! The sinner basically gets scooped along, because God can't see sinners, but God will see the Blood and save His Son!

3. Christ lacked the full power of God. For example, Christ could not resurrect Himself. It was not stated in a functional sense that the Father was the prime mover of resurrection. It was flatly stated that the Son did not have the ability to resurrect himself. The Son was a lesser entity than was the Father!

Are these beliefs widespread, or are they confined to a few parishes, here and there?

There will be an increasing number of varied, conflicting, and sometimes wildly novel beliefs and ideas going ahead into the future as Scripture continues to be interpreted in a strictly private and individual manner.

DennisTate · Nov 6, 2019

BryanJohnMaloney said:
Therefore, in your doctrine, only the Father is God.

No...... I believe that the Holy Spirit / The Comforter was also identified by Messiah Yeshua - Jesus as being greater than himself...... in his pre-resurrection human form.... when he told his disciples that they were better off with the Comforter / The Holy Spirit..... than they were if he had stayed with them.

Jhn 16:7

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

1213 · Nov 6, 2019

BryanJohnMaloney said:
So, it is your doctrine that ONLY the Father is God and that Jesus is not God. And you say that this is Scriptural?

Firstly, I don’t think I have own doctrine and, in any case, I don’t want people to follow my doctrine. I hope people follow what Jesus taught. For me, Jesus is the King and I think people should follow him, rather than me.

So, what is the Biblical doctrine in this? To understand it correctly, I think people should read the whole Bible and also notice everything Jesus said. And Jesus said also:

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

According to Jesus, there is only one true God that is greater than him. This leads to question, why then he was called God, if there is only one true God? And the answer is:

Most assuredly I tell you, he who receives whomever I send, receives me; and he who receives me, receives him who sent me."
John 13:20

Jesus was sent by God and Jesus acted in the name of God. That is why he was called God on earth. It can be compared to a president of a country. President makes deals in the name of his country, he acts like he is the country, but still, I believe we all understand that the president is not the true country. Same is with Jesus, he acts in the name of God, speaks what God has commanded him to speak and makes a deal in the name of God. And that is the reason why he is called God on earth.

…your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
John 17:11

My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me.
John 7:16

PaulCyp1 · Nov 6, 2019

The term "God lacks the ability" is meaningless since God is infinitely powerful. God cannot be "tricked", since He is all-knowing. The Bible states that Jesus "rose" from the dead on the third day, after predicting that He would do so. It doesn't say He was "rated" from the dead by someone else.

Jamdoc · Nov 7, 2019

BryanJohnMaloney said:
I'm posting here because I don't know where else to post it.

Some time ago I attended a congregation that was within the SBC. I understand that SBC is pretty hands off regarding individual congregations, so nothing that I relate ought to reflect on them. Anyway, over the couple of years I attended, I heard the following from the pulpit, multiple times:

1. God lacks the ability to see sinners. Sinners are actually invisible to God! That is why He can't save them. It is not that God refuses to regard sinners. It was explained clearly that God lacks the ability to perceive them.

2. God can be tricked into saving sinners if they are "covered with the Blood of Christ". Then God only sees His Son and not the sinner, so God can reach down to save His Son! The sinner basically gets scooped along, because God can't see sinners, but God will see the Blood and save His Son!

3. Christ lacked the full power of God. For example, Christ could not resurrect Himself. It was not stated in a functional sense that the Father was the prime mover of resurrection. It was flatly stated that the Son did not have the ability to resurrect himself. The Son was a lesser entity than was the Father!

Are these beliefs widespread, or are they confined to a few parishes, here and there?

I've never heard any of these before, definitely fringe, very very misled. Anytime you hear a phrase like "God can't do" x, that should be a warning that what you're about to hear is misled. God can do anything. God can see sinners, because he promised he will be judging the
You can't deceive someone who's all knowing either.
Jesus did raise himself, it's three persons who are the same being.
Whoever is telling you this is diminishing the Glory of God, and I pray that it is unintended.

Is this way out there on the fringe?

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