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Sure, I don't want to offend.
Thank you.
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Sure, I don't want to offend.
Because the chief article of Dispensationalist theology is that the Gospel is a temporary situation, a parenthesis in the divine plan, God's back up plan because Jesus actually failed. At the heart of Dispensationalist teaching is that Jesus came to establish an earthly kingdom, but things went wrong, the Jews did not en masse accept Him as their Messianic King, and so God went with Plan B--Jesus would be crucified, resurrected, and God would turn attention to the Gentiles for a season, but only for a season. Eventually God will return to focusing on His real people, the Jews. That's precisely why "the Rapture" is necessary, "the Rapture" is ultimately a necessary thing because it gets Christians out of the way so that God can return to working on the Jews as an earthly, national people. Christ's return in glory is to do what He was supposed to do the first time but failed to do--establish an earthly kingdom focused on earthly Israel, and that's what "the Millennium" is in Dispensationalism.
All of this is a deep, fundamental rejection of Christ, His Gospel, the entire story of redemption in Scripture, of God's grace, of salvation, and of God's word and all His promises from the beginning.
-CryptoLutheran
You have a very interesting interpretation of this. What if you realize this was not God's backup plan?
Take note that the term "dispensation" actually appeared in the Bible, so its not a man made term.
I don't believe it was God's backup plan. I believe it was God's one and only plan, from the beginning. Christ did not come to establish an earthly kingdom, He came as Savior of the world. There was never supposed to be a restoration of a Jewish nation in the Levant, that was never Christ's work. The kingdom Christ proclaimed was not a restoration of the monarchy, but the inauguration of God's reign through His death and resurrection for the whole world. For both Jew and Gentile alike without distinction and without discrimination.
Which isn't relevant. The claim isn't that the word "dispensation" can't be found. The claim is that Dispensationalism is false. If I find a word in the Bible and create an entire elaborate false theology around it, that doesn't make my theology correct.
-CryptoLutheran
Who mentioned "health" first ?Not sure why you want to go off into a tangent...
Not according to His Word, (there are many people He does not* convict, even though they transgress daily) .If he ever wants me to stop painting pictures of Jesus, that it is a sin when He knows I want nothing to do with sin, He will convict me.
Bible Highlighter said: ↑Do you reject the Sermon on the Mount as being applicable today?
If so, then what verses lead you to that conclusion?
~ (Also, please vote in the poll) ~
Guojing said: ↑
When Jesus reign as King in the 1000 year Millennial, justice will be executed fairly.
When someone slap us on our left cheek, we can offer them our right. When someone steal our cloak, we can let them have our inner garment as well. This is because we can trust that Jesus, as the King, will defend us, because he knows all things.
Now, Paul said we are in the present evil age (Galatians 1:4), so those are not instructions for us now.
So we are free to ignore and deny Jesus Christ...because the world is sinful?
Shouldn't it be the exact opposite? That we are, as St. Paul says, to be in the world but not of it? To not be conformed to this present age, but to be transformed by the renewing of our mind?
That as the Church, as the people of Jesus Christ, we are to be a city on a hill, the light of the world, and salt of the earth? To be a people whose allegiance is to Christ, not to the powers of this world. To live in accordance with God's kingdom, which we have become partakers of through Christ by our new birth (John 3:3-5).
Not that we can be perfect in this present age, not that we can attain the glory to which we presently hope now, for at present we labor and indeed all creation labors and groans looking forward to and awaiting that blessed hope when God makes all things new, when Christ returns, the dead are raised, and all creation restored. But that we have been called to be a people who are marked by Christ and His cross, to take up our cross and follow after Him. To be the cross-bearing, the crucified, people of God in this world--with our eyes set upon Christ the Author and Finisher of our faith, with our hope set upon the resurrection and the promise of eternal life in the Age to Come, to live in accordance with the way of Jesus in this world. To love our neighbor, to love even our enemies, to bless those who curse us, to pray for those who persecute us, to be good to those who are evil toward us. We turn the cheek, we forgive, we show mercy. We devote ourselves to the care of widows and orphans, devote ourselves toward justice for the poor, the hungry, the naked, the oppressed, the immigrant, and the dejected.
That we are to follow "the more excellent way" of love as St. Paul calls it. To be a people who beat our swords into plowshares, and spears into pruning shears. To be a people who call the Crucified One King and Lord. Knowing that no servant is greater than his master. That God as king, as exercised and manifest through the Suffering Messiah, is that the least is greatest, that the greatest amongst us is the slave. That the lowly shall be lifted up, the proud laid low.
Because Jesus Christ is Lord.
-CryptoLutheran
Ever wonder why Paul, our apostle, with the exception of the holy communion, almost never talk about what Jesus preached to the Jews in the flesh?
You mean like how we should repay no one evil for evil, love our enemies, and do good to all? He does, in Romans chapter 12. Or perhaps you mean the new birth? He does in Titus 3:5. Perhaps you're thinking about the kingdom of God, well, he does, Acts 28:30-31
I don't have to wonder that, because it's not true.
-CryptoLutheran
People keep using that particular Acts verse as a proof text that Paul was also preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom at the end of Acts.
The mistake you are making is that when you see the term "kingdom", you interpret the term "kingdom" to be the same, whenever you come across that term.
In the Bible, the same English word can have different meanings depending on the context.
The classic word is the word "heaven"
Gen 1:20 heaven is where birds fly, that is the sky we see above us, the first heaven.
Isaiah 13:10 talks about the stars of heaven, so there is where the Sun is located, outer space, the 2nd heaven.
And of course, the one that many dispensationalists would know of, Paul talks about being caught up in the 3rd heaven (2 Cor 12:2-4). That is where the throne of God is, beyond outer space
Thus, when Paul talks about the kingdom in Acts 28:30-31, please don't assume it has the same meaning as the kingdom that Peter was eagerly anticipating in Acts 1:6.
The kingdom isn't "heaven". The kingdom is what Jesus Christ preached in the Gospels--God's reign. That's the kingdom which Christ announced, and which the Apostles proclaimed, and which the Church continues to preach. That God has sent His Son, Jesus the Christ, and through Him there is peace with God. God's kingdom isn't a government or a location, but this reality: Jesus Christ crucified, risen from the dead, ascended, and seated at the right hand of the Father having been given all power and authority. The captives are set free, the lame walk, the blind shall see. Victory has come over and against sin, death, hell, and the devil and we, the broken, are the benefactors who have been liberated and brought into the freedom as God's children through Christ. And, in the end, the dead shall rise, and all creation shall be made whole.
Dispensationalism is toxic garbage that denies Jesus Christ, denies the Gospel, denies the grace of God, denies the kingdom, denies all of God's word and promises, and should be rightfully scorned for the grotesque heresy that it is.
-CryptoLutheran
LOL! Tell us what you really think, brother...
In what way does dispensationalism do these things.
There are many different brands of dispensationalism these days, with many who are hyper-dispensational (Mid-Acts, Acts 28), and more conservative dispensationalists (Acts 2) feel they are in great error. Try not to paint with such a wide brush, brother. As for me, I am still willing to listen to why, exactly, people react with such vitriol towards a theological system that holds Scripture, and the God who inspired them, in extremely high regard as far as I can tell.
One really only has to look at this thread to see examples. The words of Christ our God Himself argued away, He has told us to love others, even our enemies, to turn the other cheek, etc and instead of taking this as the inviolate command of our Lord and King it is taken as being non-applicable, pushed forward to some future period.
Because the chief article of Dispensationalist theology is that the Gospel is a temporary situation, a parenthesis in the divine plan, God's back up plan because Jesus actually failed. At the heart of Dispensationalist teaching is that Jesus came to establish an earthly kingdom, but things went wrong, the Jews did not en masse accept Him as their Messianic King, and so God went with Plan B--Jesus would be crucified, resurrected, and God would turn attention to the Gentiles for a season, but only for a season. Eventually God will return to focusing on His real people, the Jews. That's precisely why "the Rapture" is necessary, "the Rapture" is ultimately a necessary thing because it gets Christians out of the way so that God can return to working on the Jews as an earthly, national people. Christ's return in glory is to do what He was supposed to do the first time but failed to do--establish an earthly kingdom focused on earthly Israel, and that's what "the Millennium" is in Dispensationalism.
All of this is a deep, fundamental rejection of Christ, His Gospel, the entire story of redemption in Scripture, of God's grace, of salvation, and of God's word and all His promises from the beginning.
Yes, there are some forms of Dispensationalism which are worse than others--but it's all merely different degrees of error.
I will say, however, that fortunately the majority of those who subscribe to Dispensationalist don't seem to know the whole thing. They usually only know bits and pieces. But the problem is that as soon as they start to do any kind of digging, this is what Dispensationalist teachers teach. And the only choices available are to either recognize Dispensationalism for the heretical system that it is, and reject it; or else be persuaded by it, and then fully embrace something that is, at its very core, a deep rejection of Jesus Christ our Lord.
-CryptoLutheran
You have a very interesting interpretation of this. What if you realize this was not God's backup plan?
As in God foreknew that the Jewish nation would reject Jesus as their Messiah since the world began, and hence everything happened as God the Father planned it to be?
Ephesians 3:1-9 summed it up well
For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
====
Take note that the term "dispensation" actually appeared in the Bible, so its not a man made term.
ViaCrucis said: ↑
I don't believe it was God's backup plan. I believe it was God's one and only plan, from the beginning. Christ did not come to establish an earthly kingdom, He came as Savior of the world. There was never supposed to be a restoration of a Jewish nation in the Levant, that was never Christ's work. The kingdom Christ proclaimed was not a restoration of the monarchy, but the inauguration of God's reign through His death and resurrection for the whole world. For both Jew and Gentile alike without distinction and without discrimination.
Which isn't relevant. The claim isn't that the word "dispensation" can't be found. The claim is that Dispensationalism is false. If I find a word in the Bible and create an entire elaborate false theology around it, that doesn't make my theology correct.
-CryptoLutheran
Most Preterists and all Amills deny it, including me.......and why I am Preterist/Amill.....You deny that there will be a 1000 year millennial reign where Jesus will actually rule the world from Jerusalem?
Amillennialism is a specific position in regard to the Millennium, it says that the Millennium isn't intended to describe a literal period of time, but rather describes Christ's reign at the Father's right hand until the time of His coming.
Preterism is a position in regard to prophetic interpretation, sometimes contrasted with Futurism and Historicism.
Historicism would argue, for example, that what St. John the Revelator wrote has had an ongoing fulfillment since his day to ours, the earliest Protestants were Historicists, which led Luther, Calvin (et al) to conclude that the Papacy fulfilled the eschatological role of Antichrist and Beast (not the person of the Pope, per se, but rather the office of Pope).
Futurists would posit that all or most of everything in the Revelation will be fulfilled at a heretofore unspecified point in the future, Dispensationalists fall in this category (and they are also Premillennialists).
-CryptoLutheran
You deny that there will be a 1000 year millennial reign where Jesus will actually rule the world from Jerusalem?
I have been a Non-Resistant Christian for several years now. I believe we are to turn the other cheek if we are struck, and we are to love and do good towards our enemies (Which is a radical change from the Old Testament or Old Covenant).
What I have come to recently discover in my New Testament commands study is that the command that says to Love our enemies (Which is one sub command in a series of 7 sub commands that falls under the umbrella of one main command that says for us to be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect - Matthew 5:38-48) is a salvation issue if we disobey it (Note: The commandment to "Be Perfect as the Heavenly Father" is the kind of command that is not teaching Sinless Perfection as some falsely assume; While I believe God calls us to put away all sin by the Lord's power, I do not believe being sinlessly perfect (like putting away faults of character, like not taking the trash out on time, or going over the speed limit, etc.) is a salvation issue). Anyways, Hebrews 12:14 is the command that the key in understanding here. Hebrews 12:14 says we are to "Follow after peace with all men... of which no man shall see the Lord." In other words, if we are hating our enemies, and we are not loving them, we are not making peace with them, and Hebrews 12:14 says that if we do not follow after peace with all men, we will not see the Lord. Not seeing the Lord is obviously a loss of salvation. For how can one be in God's Kingdom and not see the Lord? So we have to love our enemies. I see it as a part of loving our neighbor under the New Covenant (or New Testament). Jesus agreed with the lawyer on the truth that loving God, and loving your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28).
Side Note:
Loving our enemies does not mean we have fellowship with them like we do the brethren. For what fellowship does light have with darkness? What this means is that we love them within the confines of not fellowshiping with them like we would the brethren. We can still do good towards our enemies, and pray for them, and love them without fellowshiping with them.
Yes, the Old Law (i.e. the Torah, or the 613 Laws given to Israel) is no more.
This does not mean certain "Moral Laws" that existed even before the written Law has not been repeated in the commands given to us in the New Covenant (or New Testament). I believe Matthew 5:24 is the only command that does not apply (in a literal sense) for NT believers because it is talking about the endorsement of animal sacrifices (Which is only for the OT saint or believer).
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil [Jesus did not come to destroy all forms of the Law and prophecy, but He came to fulfill them; Jesus fulfilled Messianic prophecy in many ways by his arrival and Jesus fulfilled the Law by nailing to the cross those ordinances that were against us, like: Circumcision, the Sabbaths, and the dietary laws, etc.; For example: If I took an apple seed and smashed it with a hammer, it would be destroyed, but if I planted that apple seed in the ground, it would be fulfilled into its intended purpose in being an apple tree. Christ brought us a new and better way with His teachings.].
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled [The key to understanding is "till ALL be fulfilled"; Because we clearly know that the law on animal sacrifices does not apply anymore because the temple veil was torn from top to bottom and Jesus is now our Passover Lamb].
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven [I believe the "least of these commandments" is in reference to those commands Jesus gave us on the Sermon on the Mt. that is not attached with any spiritual death warnings or any kind of condemnation by hell fire; One example is the command to "Rejoice and be exceedingly glad" when you are persecuted falsely (See Matthew 5:11-12)]:
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven [Don't you want to be called great in the kingdom of Heaven? I sure do. So why not teach the commands on the Sermon on the Mount? I will tell you why? Most do not want to obey Jesus today].
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. [Our righteous ways or living must exceed the righteous living of the scribes and pharisees, if not we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven; This should not be too hard because they ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy - See Matthew 23:23, and Luke 11:42]."
(Matthew 5:17-20) (KJV).
Yes, but we must remember that the entire Law stands as our tutor "until heaven and earth pass away".
We cannot merit salvation by our works, but our faith will lead us to works of righteousness empowered by the Holy Spirit.
One really only has to look at this thread to see examples. The words of Christ our God Himself argued away, He has told us to love others, even our enemies, to turn the other cheek, etc and instead of taking this as the inviolate command of our Lord and King it is taken as being non-applicable, pushed forward to some future period.
Because the chief article of Dispensationalist theology is that the Gospel is a temporary situation,
a parenthesis in the divine plan, God's back up plan because Jesus actually failed. At the heart of Dispensationalist teaching is that Jesus came to establish an earthly kingdom, but things went wrong, the Jews did not en masse accept Him as their Messianic King, and so God went with Plan B
--Jesus would be crucified, resurrected, and God would turn attention to the Gentiles for a season, but only for a season. Eventually God will return to focusing on His real people, the Jews.
That's precisely why "the Rapture" is necessary, "the Rapture" is ultimately a necessary thing because it gets Christians out of the way so that God can return to working on the Jews as an earthly, national people.
Christ's return in glory is to do what He was supposed to do the first time but failed to do--establish an earthly kingdom focused on earthly Israel, and that's what "the Millennium" is in Dispensationalism.
All of this is a deep, fundamental rejection of Christ, His Gospel, the entire story of redemption in Scripture, of God's grace, of salvation, and of God's word and all His promises from the beginning.
The claim isn't that the word "dispensation" can't be found. The claim is that Dispensationalism is false. If I find a word in the Bible and create an entire elaborate false theology around it, that doesn't make my theology correct.
-CryptoLutheran
If you were a Jew during the OT time,
you will have to sacrifice an animal to pay for your sins.
Elohim never required Israel to "pay" for their sins. It was the money changers that carried out the manmade religious traditions of Israel's religious elite. Christianity also has its manmade denominational traditions ... e.g. 16th century RCC indulgences and todays disunty (walls of division) among denominations ... John 13:34-35, John 17:21, 1 John 3:14
Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only the one who does the will of My Father who is in Heaven.
22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from Me, you evildoers!’
Christendom has also strayed (Ezy Seeker-Sensitive Christianity) just as Israel with the result that both Temples being destroyed on the 9th of Av ... What Happened on the Ninth of Av? ... will your temple be destroyed (1 Corinthians 3:16, 1 John 5:20, Matthew 25:1-13)
Love the LORD your GOD with all your heart, with all
your soul, and with all your strength.
Deuteronomy 6:5