I think I just had an epiphany

danielmears · Nov 6, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
So I had an interesting thought that I wanted to share. Bear with me please, because this might be long.

I'm still taking in as much biblical information as I can, and the more I read about ALL of the debates between denomination over what classifies as sin, what doctrine is correct, who is the real heretic, etc...I kinda realized some things.

Satan's plan to infiltrate the church is not how I thought it was.

Now I'm not talking about disputes over basic biblical truths(such as whether or not it's okay to have premarital sex or something of the like)--but things that are...less important, if at all mentioned in the bible. Listen, in just the past few months, I've read and observed a lot. Some of which include;
- C.S. Lewis was a satanic pagan heretic who despises Christianity and if ANY pastor endorses his Christian works(like mere christianity)then he is a heretic himself and should be ashamed
- It's sinful for women to wear pants
- A woman thought that ANY and ALL cartoons were satanic and sending children to hell because of a 'vision' she had in a dream
- Rock music is secretly satantic worship messages
- Metal is evil because the 'beat' is aggressive
- Paul Washer(whom I really look up to)is a false prophet who pushes calvinism and causes people to stray from Jesus
- Anyone basically who doesn't believe in the 'right' doctrine is heretical and will burn in hell
- All holidays are evil because of their pagan roots, and if you celebrate any form of them, you're pretty much betraying Christ
- Contemplative prayer is anti-biblical because it resembles 'eastern tradition' and isn't mentioned in the bible

I mean...look at that list. The more I observe a lot of Christian communities, the more that I see what's going on in the background. There's so much competition between doctrines and beliefs, I have to wonder; are we missing the point? I understand that we are to rebuke our brothers and sisters when they are sinning, but what gives us the authority to argue over Christ-centered doctrine? So long as it's not promoting sin...what of it? I see a lot of Christians viciously attacking each other with the belief that 'their' doctrine is right, and become so arrogant that they feel as though they have the authority to tell people whether or not they're going to hell. Whether or not they're truly CHRISTIANS. Let's face it; Jesus Christ may be the only way to salvation, but it seems like that 'long narrow path' might actually have to be SEVERAL long narrow paths at this point.

I've dedicated myself to learning the truth about the bible; about Christianity. But the more I learn, the more I hear the arguments from all sides, the more I think of this particular verse...

Titus 3:9-11 NIV
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.
...and the more I realize, we really are all missing the point.

How are we supposed to glorify God when we're busy condemning others?
How are we to claim we're loving just as Jesus Christ was when we use such harsh words like 'heretic', 'apostate', 'satanic' to describe our brothers and sisters who believe in the same sins, the same God, the same Jesus that died on the cross for all of our sins...all because they differ in doctrine? Is that not hate???
How are we supposed to grow in our relationship with God when we're only concerned with how 'holy' or 'correct' we appear to everyone around us?
How do we even know we're right with our doctrine?
How do we know those who disagree with us are wrong?

I'm sick and tired of it, truly. I myself do have disagreements with people over doctrine, and that's OKAY. I'm not saying you shouldn't voice an opinion if you think that something isn't biblically sound. But at the same time, it seems like very few people have the humility to admit that they could be wrong with their own argument--or that, heaven forbid, the subject matter is up to one's personal conviction. No, it's always "The verses I pulled up MYSELF say that you're wrong" or those condescending remarks of "Only the Holy Spirit can help you" when they realize you aren't caving in your own convictions--as if your version of God is different than mine and will suddenly enlighten me on why you're the holy one and I'm not???

The PRIDE displayed is unbelievable. None of us, not a single one is qualified to be the final judge on whether our interpretation of something in the bible is true or not. Just because someone has a different viewpoint, doesn't mean they're automatically a hedonistic heretic. Likewise, I'm sick of the word 'legalistic' being thrown around. Yes, there are a lot of real legalists out there; and no, they probably aren't the ones who are genuinely concerned with your spiritual state and think that you should make some changes in your life. There are a lot of EXTREMELY devout Christians whom I look up to who are full of zeal and considered 'legalistic' by people, I'm sure. Even I sometimes disagree with what they talk about. I once, admittedly, felt shameful that I wasn't as 'holy' or 'perfect' as they appeared to be--and I began to shy away from learning from them, that if I fell short of what they were, I wasn't good enough for Christ.

That was a big mistake on my part.

I'm not striving to be like other humans. I'm striving to be like CHRIST. I've spent so much time measuring myself by the standards of 'wise', Godly men and what they preached that I fell into the biggest and most obvious trap; self-condemnation. I felt like these people knew something I didn't, or that maybe I was wrong for not agreeing with everything they say. But you know what? I don't think that anymore. There is not a single human being that is, or has ever been, on this earth--except for those in the Bible and Jesus Christ--that I will ever truly trust the teachings of. I always, ALWAYS compare arguments to the opposing view; compare it with scripture, pray for clarity & never stop learning. The only way I'd ever trust a man's words fully is if he spoke in nothing but verses from the Bible itself.

This division is killing us. It's killing the church. These stupid arguments over 'temporal' objects and the like is, I feel, deeply distracting us from what we're supposed to be chasing after as hard and fast as we can--JESUS CHRIST!

Nobody knows if it's a sin to watch tv
Nobody knows if it's a sin for women to wear pants
Nobody knows if it's a sin to own nice cars or a big house
Nobody knows if it's a sin to play video games
Nobody knows if it's a sin to drink or smoke at all
Nobody knows if it's a sin to celebrate easter, halloween or christmas

We are NOT called to dispute over these things. I've come to this forum many times asking questions about these temporary things--when really, I should have been just reading my bible and thanking God for every opportunity that I've been given, whether it be the simple pleasure of sitting outside in the morning, worshipping God at my church, spending time with my family, or watching silly videos with my boyfriend. I've spent too much time arguing over what's 'okay' and what's 'not okay' and feeling like I either have to follow someone else's convictions, or make them follow my own.

At the end of the day, all of us could be wrong about anything. And that's OKAY. It's okay to have different doctrines as long as we are trying our hardest to follow God's will with what he has written to us. Don't condemn each other for every little thing; have civil discussions, and if you can't agree--agree to disagree, and then leave each other be. Nobody needs to be the 'heretic' or the 'pharisee'.

I will thank God and give Him glory in everything I do. Whether it be fasting, reading the bible, studying our rich Christian history or having fellowship with my brothers and sisters in Christ--to enjoying the talents of those who make my favorite video games and write the stories for my favorite fantasy worlds, reading the weird mythology of cultures long since dead, or just having fun celebrating halloween as a time not of pagan rituals but as a time to dress up and enjoy some spooky stories and candy with friends and family. I thank God for every experience I have in this world, good or bad, and trust that no matter what He won't let me stray.

Heck, even if you disagree with my views, I still love all of you and I encourage everyone to put aside our differences and just appreciate the fact that we're all running the same race with the same finish line. I think we'd all be a little better off as a whole if we took the time to personally pursue the truth ourselves--not just in the safe sanctuary of a church under a pastor who also just so happens to be another human being like ourselves, subject to bias and the like.

It's sad that Satan has used fear and division for so long to divide us all and distract us from what really matters. It's never been about the doctrines, the works or the 'fire and brimstone' sermons. And it CERTAINLY hasn't been about the Illuminati, the conspiracy theories or the 'hidden messages' --it's been about Jesus Christ, and our walk to be as much like him as possible. After all..

Philippians 4:6 NIV
Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

...now in the meantime, I need to work on practicing some love towards those I disagree with and/or dislike too OTL

I hope somebody found something good in my weird ramblings pFFFF

You are correct. Sin is not about the things, doing this or that, abstinence or not. Sin is missing the mark, literally translated. And what is the mark? It is a harmonious state of loving God and one another, realizing faith is here, in motion, whether you believe or not, moving in the unseen, manifesting in the seen. That is why faith or fear matters. It is done unto you as you believe, according to your faith! Glory to God we are living in a marvelous, righteous system where one reaps what they sow. Only believe Christ says, I will give you the keys to the kingdom, to bind or loose, allow or forbid! Knowledge and understanding many are missing, the road is narrow my friend. God bless!

DamianWarS · Nov 6, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
C.S. Lewis was a satanic pagan heretic who despises Christianity and if ANY pastor endorses his Christian works(like mere christianity)then he is a heretic himself and should be ashamed

ahh... sources?

edit: my error, op answered in the following:

theoneandonlypencil said:
I was quoting something I'd read. Here are the is the link, if you're interested;

Lupus Occultus: The Paganised Christianity of C.S. Lewis

royal priest · Nov 6, 2019

DamianWarS said:
ahh... sources?

I think the OP was saying this was an accusation they had a observed. Not an accusation being made by the OP.

theoneandonlypencil · Nov 6, 2019

DamianWarS said:
ahh... sources?

LOL @royal priest was correct--I was quoting something I'd read. Here are the is the link, if you're interested;

Lupus Occultus: The Paganised Christianity of C.S. Lewis

theoneandonlypencil · Nov 6, 2019

danielmears said:
You are correct. Sin is not about the things, doing this or that, abstinence or not. Sin is missing the mark, literally translated. And what is the mark? It is a harmonious state of loving God and one another, realizing faith is here, in motion, whether you believe or not, moving in the unseen, manifesting in the seen. That is why faith or fear matters. It is done unto you as you believe, according to your faith! Glory to God we are living in a marvelous, righteous system where one reaps what they sow. Only believe Christ says, I will give you the keys to the kingdom, to bind or loose, allow or forbid! Knowledge and understanding many are missing, the road is narrow my friend. God bless!

Amen!<3 God bless you too, and may we all walk and guide each other with love & care down this narrow path together!

Sal Robinson · Nov 6, 2019

"are we missing the point?"

Amen friend! I loved this post soooo much.

the titus passage was perfect! thank you so much for this

DamianWarS · Nov 6, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
LOL @royal priest was correct--I was quoting something I'd read. Here are the is the link, if you're interested;

Lupus Occultus: The Paganised Christianity of C.S. Lewis

thanks for the correction, it was my error :doh:

what an absurd claim

Bible Highlighter · Nov 6, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
Now I'm not talking about disputes over basic biblical truths(such as whether or not it's okay to have premarital sex or something of the like)

We agree.

9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

But there are people on this forum who have said that inappropriate content is not a sin or that having multiple wives was not sinful. Surely this is fornication, as well.

--but things that are...less important, if at all mentioned in the bible. Listen, in just the past few months, I've read and observed a lot. Some of which include;
- C.S. Lewis was a satanic pagan heretic who despises Christianity and if ANY pastor endorses his Christian works(like mere christianity)then he is a heretic himself and should be ashamed

Well, I wouldn't exactly use those kinds of words, but the written works of C.S. Lewis do promote the sin of witchcraft of which the Bible clearly condemns. The sin of witchcraft is just as serious as fornication.

Deuteronomy 18:9–12 says, “When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord.”

You said:
- It's sinful for women to wear pants

The idea behind this is that pants make women look more masculine. However, pants do not make woman look like a man as some may falsely espouse. It is perfectly acceptable in our society for woman to still look very feminine even with pants. Now, if they start wearing fake man beards, and or start putting on man muscles, then I would see that as being a problem. The idea involving the Bible is that women should appear as women and men should appear as men. For example: The Bible does talk about the proper feminine nature of women by suggesting that they have long hair.

"But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." (1 Corinthians 11:15).

- A woman thought that ANY and ALL cartoons were satanic and sending children to hell because of a 'vision' she had in a dream

The Bible should be our final word of authority on spiritual matters and not some vision, dream, etc.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

You said:
- Rock music is secretly satantic worship messages

Well, secular entertainment in general pushes sins of all kinds. Its pretty common knowledge that many rock bands have placed satanic backward messages within them. The Bible says love not the world, and neither the things in the world.

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. " (1 John 2:15).

Secular worldly rock music is a thing of the world.

You said:
Metal is evil because the 'beat' is aggressive

I used to like Heavy Metal, but after coming to Jesus, and following Him, that junk later did not make any sense to me any more. I now hear it and it sounds like pure evil. One major problem with this kind of so called music is that you cannot hear the person singing many times. But the Scriptures say,

"God is not the author of confusion." (1 Corinthians 14:33).

You said:
- Paul Washer(whom I really look up to)is a false prophet who pushes calvinism and causes people to stray from Jesus

Well, there are problems in Calvinism. For example: I don't believe the Bible teaches Unconditional Election, and Limited Atonement.

John 1:9 says,
“That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.”

John 12:32 says,
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”

John 16:8-11 says,
8 “And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.”

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:" (Deuteronomy 30:19).

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;" (Acts of the Apostles 3:19).

I also do not agree with Paul Washer on his war against the "Sinner's Prayer," either. This is highly illogical because the Bible teaches the "Sinner's Prayer" in many places. The Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee and the Parable of the Prodigal Son are two examples. The Bible also says, whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved (Romans 10:13).

You said:
- Anyone basically who doesn't believe in the 'right' doctrine is heretical and will burn in hell

"He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."
(2 John 1:9).

You said:
- All holidays are evil because of their pagan roots, and if you celebrate any form of them, you're pretty much betraying Christ

Halloween is pretty bad. I cannot see how a follower of Christ who if of the light would want to associate with a day of darkness that celebrates fear, death, witchcraft, etc.

Christmas is something that I prefer not to partake in, but I am not sure it would condemn a Christian in keeping it if their focus is on loving their neighbor and not in it is not founded upon the greed of consumerism.

The bunny version of Easter is pagan and or worldly and should not make any sense to a follower of Christ who is of the light. We are told not to love the world. Loving the world would include loving the former things of the world like these kinds of mindless holidays (holy days).

You said:
- Contemplative prayer is anti-biblical because it resembles 'eastern tradition' and isn't mentioned in the bible

According to Gotquestions, Contemplative prayer can sometimes include focusing on a word and repeats that word over and over for the duration of the exercise.

Source used:
What is contemplative prayer? | GotQuestions.org
(Note: I do not endorse everything Gotquestions says; Especially their view of Soteriology).

However, Jesus said,

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him."
(Matthew 6:7-8).

Anyways, I hope you understand where I am coming from;
May the Lord bless you today (even if we may not agree on everything).

theoneandonlypencil · Nov 6, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
We agree.

9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

But there are people on this forum who have said that inappropriate content is not a sin or that having multiple wives was not sinful. Surely this is fornication, as well.

Well, I wouldn't exactly use those kinds of words, but the written works of C.S. Lewis do promote the sin of witchcraft of which the Bible clearly condemns. The sin of witchcraft is just as serious as fornication.

Deuteronomy 18:9–12 says, “When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord.”

The idea behind this is that pants make women look more masculine. However, pants do not make woman look like a man as some may falsely espouse. It is perfectly acceptable in our society for woman to still look very feminine even with pants. Now, if they start wearing fake man beards, and or start putting on man muscles, then I would see that as being a problem. The idea involving the Bible is that women should appear as women and men should appear as men. For example: The Bible does talk about the proper feminine nature of women by suggesting that they have long hair.

"But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." (1 Corinthians 11:15).

The Bible should be our final word of authority on spiritual matters and not some vision, dream, etc.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Well, secular entertainment in general pushes sins of all kinds. Its pretty common knowledge that many rock bands have placed satanic backward messages within them. The Bible says love not the world, and neither the things in the world.

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. " (1 John 2:15).

Secular worldly rock music is a thing of the world.

I used to like Heavy Metal, but after coming to Jesus, and following Him, that junk later did not make any sense to me any more. I now hear it and it sounds like pure evil. One major problem with this kind of so called music is that you cannot hear the person singing many times. But the Scriptures say,

"God is not the author of confusion." (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Well, there are problems in Calvinism. For example: I don't believe the Bible teaches Unconditional Election, and Limited Atonement.

John 1:9 says,
“That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.”

John 12:32 says,
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”

John 16:8-11 says,
8 “And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.”

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:" (Deuteronomy 30:19).

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;" (Acts of the Apostles 3:19).

I also do not agree with Paul Washer on his war against the "Sinner's Prayer," either. This is highly illogical because the Bible teaches the "Sinner's Prayer" in many places. The Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee and the Parable of the Prodigal Son are two examples. The Bible also says, whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved (Romans 10:13).

"He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."
(2 John 1:9).

Halloween is pretty bad. I cannot see how a follower of Christ who if of the light would want to associate with a day of darkness that celebrates fear, death, witchcraft, etc.

Christmas is something that I prefer not to partake in, but I am not sure it would condemn a Christian in keeping it if their focus is on loving their neighbor and not in it is not founded upon the greed of consumerism.

The bunny version of Easter is pagan and or worldly and should not make any sense to a follower of Christ who is of the light. We are told not to love the world. Loving the world would include loving the former things of the world like these kinds of mindless holidays (holy days).

According to Gotquestions, Contemplative prayer can sometimes include focusing on a word and repeats that word over and over for the duration of the exercise.

Source used:
What is contemplative prayer? | GotQuestions.org
(Note: I do not endorse everything Gotquestions says; Especially their view of Soteriology).

However, Jesus said,

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him."
(Matthew 6:7-8).

Anyways, may the Lord bless you today (even if we may not agree on everything).

I think you and I can agree on the fundamentals of our faith--which is what is important.

I won't really comment on too much of what you put down, other than ironically I personally don't believe the whole 'backwards message' stuff. You can make backwards talking sound like just about anything if you try hard enough. I think the 'satanic message' stuff was mostly a scare tactic the older generation used back in the early days of rock n roll to try to keep kiddos in 'the right lane'. Sure, rock had its bad parts--but I have nothing against the music style in general. Same with metal. There's Christian metal out there which is...pretty funny actually LOL

As for Halloween, I don't associate it with anything that is truly 'dark' or witchcraft. My philosophy on holidays is that they are what you make them. I just like to decorate my house to be super spooky and dress up in fun costumes ^ ^ (if any evil spirits happened to be out during halloween anyways, I have crosses and holy water for that :oldthumbsup:

). Although, All Saint's Day is quickly becoming a favorite holiday too.

Anyways, regardless, thank you very much for your insight and may God Bless you as well!

Bible Highlighter · Nov 6, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
I think you and I can agree on the fundamentals of our faith--which is what is important.

I won't really comment on too much of what you put down, other than ironically I personally don't believe the whole 'backwards message' stuff. You can make backwards talking sound like just about anything if you try hard enough. I think the 'satanic message' stuff was mostly a scare tactic the older generation used back in the early days of rock n roll to try to keep kiddos in 'the right lane'. Sure, rock had its bad parts--but I have nothing against the music style in general. Same with metal. There's Christian metal out there which is...pretty funny actually LOL

As for Halloween, I don't associate it with anything that is truly 'dark' or witchcraft. My philosophy on holidays is that they are what you make them. I just like to decorate my house to be super spooky and dress up in fun costumes ^ ^ (if any evil spirits happened to be out during halloween anyways, I have crosses and holy water for that ). Although, All Saint's Day is quickly becoming a favorite holiday too.

Anyways, regardless, thank you very much for your insight and may God Bless you as well!

All I can say is that the more you dedicate your life to Christ and in following Him and in memorizing His Word (the Scriptures), the less sense any of that other junk will make sense to you.

theoneandonlypencil · Nov 6, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
All I can say is that the more you dedicate your life to Christ and in following Him and in memorizing His Word (the Scriptures), the less sense any of that other junk will make sense to you.

Yeah, I already anticipated change in my life. The way I see it, as long as I pursue Christ, I'll grow out of whatever needs growing out of ^ ^

Mathetes66 · Nov 6, 2019

I've come to this forum many times asking questions about these temporary things--when really, I should have been just reading my bible and thanking God for every opportunity that I've been given, whether it be the simple pleasure of sitting outside in the morning, worshipping God at my church, spending time with my family, or watching silly videos with my boyfriend. I've spent too much time arguing over what's 'okay' and what's 'not okay' and feeling like I either have to follow someone else's convictions, or make them follow my own.

Your own advise above is the best I've seen. So stop it & do what you should have been doing. You will be much happier & fulfilled. Let Jesus do the talking & you do the walking & following. :ebil:

public hermit · Nov 6, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
I hope somebody found something good in my weird ramblings pFFFF

I hope so, too. I agree with so much of what you're saying. The petty condemnations and useless divisions within the body of Christ are heartbreaking.

That being said, I heartily disagree with one point. Metal is not evil. Hair Metal is evil. Let us all take a moment to pray for those poor souls who like Winger and Poison. :groupray:

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 6, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
but what gives us the authority to argue over Christ-centered doctrine?

What did Yahuweh DO in the first century assemblies ? Corinth, Galatia, Thessalonian Assembly.... etc ...

What did Yahuweh DO in TORAH ? Prophets, Judges, Kings , with His people ?

HOW did Yahuweh separate His people from the heathen, pagans, destructive forces/ wickedness ?

What does Yahuweh's Word say about all the various sins, wickednesses, disobedience, idolatry, greed , false teachings (remember Yahushua Says there are MANY false teachers) ?

Why does Yahuweh Call the world/ society evil, sin-full, death dealing ?

Why does Yahuweh Say there is NOTHING in the flesh that is profitable (spiritually, for life) ?

theoneandonlypencil said:
I mean...look at that list. The more I observe a lot of Christian communities, the more that I see what's going on in the background. There's so much competition between doctrines and beliefs, I have to wonder; are we missing the point?

Yes.
(the "list" is much longer than you seem to think, apparently - there is a library online , tested and proven, that can help, Yahuweh Willing, for those wondering what is right and good, Biblically; can't post it in the open forum though- it seems to be "too" much for people to handle who are not whole-hearted lovers of the truth and seekers of God's Kingdom)

theoneandonlypencil said:
I understand that we are to rebuke our brothers and sisters when they are sinning,

No. That's not correct for most readers/ members. (nor is it the "purpose" of this site, nor is it allowed on this site in the fullness of truth/ God's Word/ as He Says... Only minor infractions might be dealt with online. With so-called "great care" not to offend anyone no matter whqt the truth is.... no matter how God "dealt" with all things in His Word, for His people, as Directed by Him...)

AlexDTX · Nov 6, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
I understand that we are to rebuke our brothers and sisters when they are sinning, but what gives us the authority to argue over Christ-centered doctrine? So long as it's not promoting sin...what of it? I see a lot of Christians viciously attacking each other with the belief that 'their' doctrine is right, and become so arrogant that they feel as though they have the authority to tell people whether or not they're going to hell.

Lengthy, but well said. Our concern should be to help others in their trust in Christ, not haggle over doctrines that have little impact with our walk.

Calling any doctrine that does not violate the basics of our being sinners and need salvation and God becoming a man to provide that salvation in the death and resurrection of Christ, as heresy is the same thing, in my mind, as calling someone a racist or a Nazi, simply as a means to shut down dialogue.

Psa_133:1 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

Shrewd Manager · Nov 6, 2019

I agree, less division more love. That said, my opinions:

theoneandonlypencil said:
Nobody knows if it's a sin to watch tv

Yes it's full of lies and will program you (junk food for mind and soul).

Nobody knows if it's a sin for women to wear pants [/QUOTE]
According to the Bible the man wears the pants so long as Christ is his head.

Nobody knows if it's a sin to own nice cars or a big house [/QUOTE]
I'd say sin unless you can clean it yourself.

Nobody knows if it's a sin to play video games [/QUOTE]
Mindless drivel, clearly sin.

Nobody knows if it's a sin to drink or smoke at all [/QUOTE]
Sin, carnal and brings your mind down. But ok to do with sinners for the gospel's sake.

Nobody knows if it's a sin to celebrate easter, halloween or christmas[/QUOTE]
Just at the correct appointed times and places.

Ohj1n37 · Nov 6, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
- C.S. Lewis was a satanic pagan heretic who despises Christianity and if ANY pastor endorses his Christian works(like mere christianity)then he is a heretic himself and should be ashamed
- It's sinful for women to wear pants
- A woman thought that ANY and ALL cartoons were satanic and sending children to hell because of a 'vision' she had in a dream
- Rock music is secretly satantic worship messages
- Metal is evil because the 'beat' is aggressive
- Paul Washer(whom I really look up to)is a false prophet who pushes calvinism and causes people to stray from Jesus
- Anyone basically who doesn't believe in the 'right' doctrine is heretical and will burn in hell
- All holidays are evil because of their pagan roots, and if you celebrate any form of them, you're pretty much betraying Christ
- Contemplative prayer is anti-biblical because it resembles 'eastern tradition' and isn't mentioned in the bible

Gracia Singh said:
I hear you. This is one reason I try not to debate on here. It's just nuts.

I live in a rural southern town. This post reminds me of a story I've heard from my grandparents about a farmer. He was a very wealthy farmer, but dressed in plain clothes and walked around bare foot. He went into car dealership to buy a bunch of vehicles for his farm. The car salesman took one good look at him and turned him away. This prompted the farmer to go to the competing car dealership down the road and buy almost everything they had. The competing car dealership owner went over and thanked the other car dealer for sending him one of if not the wealthiest person in the county to his business.

I guess what the aforementioned story has to do with what you are saying is with the premise behind your argument. Many people have become puffed up and need a good dose of humility. Pride can prevent people from obtaining what they are really after, whether that be to make a big sale like in the wealthy farmer story or to help lead others to Christ and in the worst case, pride can cause the exact opposite of what you are trying to achieve.

S.O.J.I.A. · Nov 6, 2019

it takes discernment to know what is essential and what isn't.

the scriptures really aren't as complicated as many have made it out to be. most of the confusion comes from rebellion and pride. those who don't want to do what scripture tells them and those who try to out-think the room in delving too deep into things they shouldn't.

keep reading, keep studying, keep learning as the Spirit guides you.

Maria Billingsley · Nov 6, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
So I had an interesting thought that I wanted to share. Bear with me please, because this might be long.

I'm still taking in as much biblical information as I can, and the more I read about ALL of the debates between denomination over what classifies as sin, what doctrine is correct, who is the real heretic, etc...I kinda realized some things.

Satan's plan to infiltrate the church is not how I thought it was.

Now I'm not talking about disputes over basic biblical truths(such as whether or not it's okay to have premarital sex or something of the like)--but things that are...less important, if at all mentioned in the bible. Listen, in just the past few months, I've read and observed a lot. Some of which include;
- C.S. Lewis was a satanic pagan heretic who despises Christianity and if ANY pastor endorses his Christian works(like mere christianity)then he is a heretic himself and should be ashamed
- It's sinful for women to wear pants
- A woman thought that ANY and ALL cartoons were satanic and sending children to hell because of a 'vision' she had in a dream
- Rock music is secretly satantic worship messages
- Metal is evil because the 'beat' is aggressive
- Paul Washer(whom I really look up to)is a false prophet who pushes calvinism and causes people to stray from Jesus
- Anyone basically who doesn't believe in the 'right' doctrine is heretical and will burn in hell
- All holidays are evil because of their pagan roots, and if you celebrate any form of them, you're pretty much betraying Christ
- Contemplative prayer is anti-biblical because it resembles 'eastern tradition' and isn't mentioned in the bible

I mean...look at that list. The more I observe a lot of Christian communities, the more that I see what's going on in the background. There's so much competition between doctrines and beliefs, I have to wonder; are we missing the point? I understand that we are to rebuke our brothers and sisters when they are sinning, but what gives us the authority to argue over Christ-centered doctrine? So long as it's not promoting sin...what of it? I see a lot of Christians viciously attacking each other with the belief that 'their' doctrine is right, and become so arrogant that they feel as though they have the authority to tell people whether or not they're going to hell. Whether or not they're truly CHRISTIANS. Let's face it; Jesus Christ may be the only way to salvation, but it seems like that 'long narrow path' might actually have to be SEVERAL long narrow paths at this point.

I've dedicated myself to learning the truth about the bible; about Christianity. But the more I learn, the more I hear the arguments from all sides, the more I think of this particular verse...

Titus 3:9-11 NIV
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.
...and the more I realize, we really are all missing the point.

How are we supposed to glorify God when we're busy condemning others?
How are we to claim we're loving just as Jesus Christ was when we use such harsh words like 'heretic', 'apostate', 'satanic' to describe our brothers and sisters who believe in the same sins, the same God, the same Jesus that died on the cross for all of our sins...all because they differ in doctrine? Is that not hate???
How are we supposed to grow in our relationship with God when we're only concerned with how 'holy' or 'correct' we appear to everyone around us?
How do we even know we're right with our doctrine?
How do we know those who disagree with us are wrong?

I'm sick and tired of it, truly. I myself do have disagreements with people over doctrine, and that's OKAY. I'm not saying you shouldn't voice an opinion if you think that something isn't biblically sound. But at the same time, it seems like very few people have the humility to admit that they could be wrong with their own argument--or that, heaven forbid, the subject matter is up to one's personal conviction. No, it's always "The verses I pulled up MYSELF say that you're wrong" or those condescending remarks of "Only the Holy Spirit can help you" when they realize you aren't caving in your own convictions--as if your version of God is different than mine and will suddenly enlighten me on why you're the holy one and I'm not???

The PRIDE displayed is unbelievable. None of us, not a single one is qualified to be the final judge on whether our interpretation of something in the bible is true or not. Just because someone has a different viewpoint, doesn't mean they're automatically a hedonistic heretic. Likewise, I'm sick of the word 'legalistic' being thrown around. Yes, there are a lot of real legalists out there; and no, they probably aren't the ones who are genuinely concerned with your spiritual state and think that you should make some changes in your life. There are a lot of EXTREMELY devout Christians whom I look up to who are full of zeal and considered 'legalistic' by people, I'm sure. Even I sometimes disagree with what they talk about. I once, admittedly, felt shameful that I wasn't as 'holy' or 'perfect' as they appeared to be--and I began to shy away from learning from them, that if I fell short of what they were, I wasn't good enough for Christ.

That was a big mistake on my part.

I'm not striving to be like other humans. I'm striving to be like CHRIST. I've spent so much time measuring myself by the standards of 'wise', Godly men and what they preached that I fell into the biggest and most obvious trap; self-condemnation. I felt like these people knew something I didn't, or that maybe I was wrong for not agreeing with everything they say. But you know what? I don't think that anymore. There is not a single human being that is, or has ever been, on this earth--except for those in the Bible and Jesus Christ--that I will ever truly trust the teachings of. I always, ALWAYS compare arguments to the opposing view; compare it with scripture, pray for clarity & never stop learning. The only way I'd ever trust a man's words fully is if he spoke in nothing but verses from the Bible itself.

This division is killing us. It's killing the church. These stupid arguments over 'temporal' objects and the like is, I feel, deeply distracting us from what we're supposed to be chasing after as hard and fast as we can--JESUS CHRIST!

Nobody knows if it's a sin to watch tv
Nobody knows if it's a sin for women to wear pants
Nobody knows if it's a sin to own nice cars or a big house
Nobody knows if it's a sin to play video games
Nobody knows if it's a sin to drink or smoke at all
Nobody knows if it's a sin to celebrate easter, halloween or christmas

We are NOT called to dispute over these things. I've come to this forum many times asking questions about these temporary things--when really, I should have been just reading my bible and thanking God for every opportunity that I've been given, whether it be the simple pleasure of sitting outside in the morning, worshipping God at my church, spending time with my family, or watching silly videos with my boyfriend. I've spent too much time arguing over what's 'okay' and what's 'not okay' and feeling like I either have to follow someone else's convictions, or make them follow my own.

At the end of the day, all of us could be wrong about anything. And that's OKAY. It's okay to have different doctrines as long as we are trying our hardest to follow God's will with what he has written to us. Don't condemn each other for every little thing; have civil discussions, and if you can't agree--agree to disagree, and then leave each other be. Nobody needs to be the 'heretic' or the 'pharisee'.

I will thank God and give Him glory in everything I do. Whether it be fasting, reading the bible, studying our rich Christian history or having fellowship with my brothers and sisters in Christ--to enjoying the talents of those who make my favorite video games and write the stories for my favorite fantasy worlds, reading the weird mythology of cultures long since dead, or just having fun celebrating halloween as a time not of pagan rituals but as a time to dress up and enjoy some spooky stories and candy with friends and family. I thank God for every experience I have in this world, good or bad, and trust that no matter what He won't let me stray.

Heck, even if you disagree with my views, I still love all of you and I encourage everyone to put aside our differences and just appreciate the fact that we're all running the same race with the same finish line. I think we'd all be a little better off as a whole if we took the time to personally pursue the truth ourselves--not just in the safe sanctuary of a church under a pastor who also just so happens to be another human being like ourselves, subject to bias and the like.

It's sad that Satan has used fear and division for so long to divide us all and distract us from what really matters. It's never been about the doctrines, the works or the 'fire and brimstone' sermons. And it CERTAINLY hasn't been about the Illuminati, the conspiracy theories or the 'hidden messages' --it's been about Jesus Christ, and our walk to be as much like him as possible. After all..

Philippians 4:6 NIV
Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

...now in the meantime, I need to work on practicing some love towards those I disagree with and/or dislike too OTL

I hope somebody found something good in my weird ramblings pFFFF

I agree, somewhat. The list of petty sins are certainly burdensome to a Christian and not salvation issues. However, doctrinal error can lead to falling away which is very crucial. Debating, rebuking or what ever one would like to call it is part of the "course". With the power of the Holy Spirit, it is the duty of a Christian to spread the "True Gospel" and not accept a corrupted version.

If we follow the lead of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, we can see how often He rebuked, condemned and down right got angry over lawlessness. He displayed love, compassion and forgiveness but not without a "sharp two edged sword". If we read the letters to the seven churches in Revelation, words from our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, we can get a pretty good idea of the lawlessness rising inside congregations. Among them were liars, those leaving their first love, those who have fallen from the first works, Judaizers, spreaders of false doctrine, those engaging in sexual immorality, those following false prophets, those committing adultery, those who are dead in their works and those who are rich and greedy. These are all inside the congregations and condemned by our Lord. However within these Christian congregations there was a remnant that remained faithful and our Lord points them out as well. Those who have good works, labor and are patient, those who reject evil, those who are persecuted and in poverty, those who walk with Christ, those who have love, service one another , kept His word, those who persevere and those who overcome. Within these congregations we see both wheat and tares together. Our Lord warns us to stay the course so as not to corrupt the Gospel resulting in the cultivation of tares. The only way to stay the course is to defend the Gospel. Sometimes this is in the form of rebuking and other times in the form of debates and confrontations.

In conclusion, I agree that petty burdensome quarrels do not grow the Kingdom of God however we are commanded to defend the Gospel through the power of His Holy Spirit and ONLY through His Holy Spirit can we defend His truth.
Be blessed

Bible Highlighter · Nov 6, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
Yeah, I already anticipated change in my life. The way I see it, as long as I pursue Christ, I'll grow out of whatever needs growing out of ^ ^

I am saying that if you put away junk like Death Metal, secular Rock music, and secular movies, etc. for a long while and you just focus on Jesus and in following His Word in what it plainly says (and not what churches re-interpret what His Word says), then GOD will show you in time that these things are all dung. In other words, you will not want it anymore because you will see it for what it is (by giving it up). For sometimes we cannot see something is bad for us while we are indulging in that particular bad thing.

I think I just had an epiphany

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