Salvation Cannot be Lost

thomas15 · Nov 5, 2019

In response to the question is the persons in Matthew 7:23 are they saved, Phil W states:

Phil W said:
They are unsaved, and it is too late for them to change.

I would personally like for you to prove this.

thomas15 · Nov 5, 2019

It is very obvious that Phil W believes that we are saved by works.

S.ilvio · Nov 6, 2019

thomas15 said:
Also may I add to FreeGrace2's response, what exactly is the "something" that must be done? How much of that "something" is required? What intensity of "something" is required? Is there a time period in which that "something" is helpful or not?

I believe that Jesus in the Bible said "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" Jn 3:3 nothing said that a man must show "something" to indicate faith to other men. I think that outward signs of faith are an area that requires caution. Matt 23:5 Note I'm not saying don't perform good works rather I'm trying to say that we cannot buy our salvation with good works (something), that would void salvation by grace alone.

We need to actively repent of our continual sinful nature or we risk losing Salvation...

FreeGrace2 · Nov 6, 2019

S.ilvio said:
We need to actively repent of our continual sinful nature or we risk losing Salvation...

Could you provide a verse that backs up your claim here?

In fact, Jesus stated very clearly and straightforward that those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

Your claim is directly opposed to what Jesus taught. Think about it.

S.ilvio · Nov 6, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
Could you provide a verse that backs up your claim here?

In fact, Jesus stated very clearly and straightforward that those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

Your claim is directly opposed to what Jesus taught. Think about it.

“See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off” (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).

Clear as crystal. If we fall away we will be cut off...

FreeGrace2 · Nov 6, 2019

I asked:
"Could you provide a verse that backs up your claim here?

In fact, Jesus stated very clearly and straightforward that those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

Your claim is directly opposed to what Jesus taught. Think about it."

S.ilvio said:
“See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off” (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).

This verse doesn't support your claim.

The words "cut off" in the OT (Hebrews) referred to physical death. Not going to hell.

Clear as crystal. If we fall away we will be cut off...

So you think John 10:28 isn't crystal clear???

I guess you didn't think about the fact that your view is in direct opposition to what Jesus taught in that verse.

Once given the gift of eternal life, the recipient SHALL NEVER PERISH. That IS what Jesus taught.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 6, 2019

"support your claim".....

or "does not support your claim" ...

hmmm...... isn't that all, on this forum, a MATTER OF OPINION ? Other people say the opposite, right?

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 6, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
I guess you didn't think about the fact that your view is in direct opposition to what Jesus taught in that verse.

Once given the gift of eternal life, the recipient SHALL NEVER PERISH. That IS what Jesus taught.

footnote: note "... in that verse..." as if to ignore much Scripture* just to try to make a point of opinion.

*where Jesus DOES teach that which people reject today....

Jesus opinion is the ONLY ONE that really matters....

S.ilvio · Nov 6, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
I asked:
"Could you provide a verse that backs up your claim here?

In fact, Jesus stated very clearly and straightforward that those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

Your claim is directly opposed to what Jesus taught. Think about it."

This verse doesn't support your claim.

The words "cut off" in the OT (Hebrews) referred to physical death. Not going to hell.

So you think John 10:28 isn't crystal clear???

I guess you didn't think about the fact that your view is in direct opposition to what Jesus taught in that verse.

Once given the gift of eternal life, the recipient SHALL NEVER PERISH. That IS what Jesus taught.

Your grave error is the arrogance of the person who thinks they have Salvation in the bag and that's that.

Both Romans and Hebrews clearly show that anyone who falls away will be cut off.

Do you believe the Book of Hebrews is God breathed..?

FreeGrace2 · Nov 6, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
"support your claim".....

or "does not support your claim" ...

hmmm...... isn't that all, on this forum, a MATTER OF OPINION ? Other people say the opposite, right?

It's only opinion when a poster cannot provide a clearly stated verse, with plain words, that actually do support their claim.

For example, one side says salvation can be lost? So where's the verse that actually says so? Instead, they use verses with metaphors (hardly clearly stated words) that they think mean what the poster believes.

However, Jesus couldn't have been more clear about those He gives eternal life. He said they shall never perish.

Now, that's clear and plain language. Nothing ambiguous about that at all.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 6, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
footnote: note "... in that verse..." as if to ignore much Scripture* just to try to make a point of opinion.

*where Jesus DOES teach that which people reject today....

Jesus opinion is the ONLY ONE that really matters....

I fully agree. And His opinion, if you want to call it that, is that those He gives eternal life, shall never perish.

Yet, many people continue to reject what He said and believe that recipients of eternal life CAN perish.

Go figure.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 6, 2019

S.ilvio said:
Your grave error is the arrogance of the person who thinks they have Salvation in the bag and that's that.

The grave error", my friend, is on you. Thinking that there is anything YOU can do to undo what God perfectly did.

And how is it NOT an act of brutal arrogance to ARGUE with Jesus about recipients of eternal life? He said they SHALL NEVER PERISH.

Those who think salvation can be lost believe that recipients of eternal life CAN perish.

Show me where CAN and SHALL NEVER mean the same thing.

Both Romans and Hebrews clearly show that anyone who falls away will be cut off.

What you have failed to prove is that "cut off" means "go to hell", or "lose salvation".

Just read the OT. The words "cut off" referred to physical death.

Do you believe the Book of Hebrews is God breathed..?

I believe every book in the Bible is God breathed.

Why don't YOU believe that John 10:28 is God breathed?

That's the question.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 6, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
It's only opinion when a poster cannot provide a clearly stated verse, with plain words, that actually do support their claim.

That is still opinion.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 6, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
I believe every book in the Bible is God breathed.

Why don't YOU believe that John 10:28 is God breathed?

That's the question.

No.
That's simply your opinion, posted frequently, apparently while ignoring "every book in the Bible"... in spite of your claims otherwise.

It looks like from your posts that what does not fit your scheme of things, is conveniently ignored.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 6, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
The grave error", my friend, is on you. Thinking that there is anything YOU can do to undo what God perfectly did.

Not at all, but this is something perhaps enlightening to consider/ see/ pray for ....

Whatever most everyone on earth THINKS GOD DID, is not true.

Even a lot of Christians "are sure" GOD DID something, and they find out , HOPEFULLY in this life, that what they were taught was wrong.

Multitudes don't find out a vital matter UNTIL JUDGMENT DAY - multitudes who THINK they KNEW what GOD DID, but He Did not , and they are told, too late too change, bye!

S.ilvio · Nov 6, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
The grave error", my friend, is on you. Thinking that there is anything YOU can do to undo what God perfectly did.

And how is it NOT an act of brutal arrogance to ARGUE with Jesus about recipients of eternal life? He said they SHALL NEVER PERISH.

Those who think salvation can be lost believe that recipients of eternal life CAN perish.

Show me where CAN and SHALL NEVER mean the same thing.

What you have failed to prove is that "cut off" means "go to hell", or "lose salvation".

Just read the OT. The words "cut off" referred to physical death.

I believe every book in the Bible is God breathed.

Why don't YOU believe that John 10:28 is God breathed?

That's the question.

"If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned” (John 15:2, 6)

If we turn away we will be cut off and thrown into the fire. What more clarity do you need..?

FreeGrace2 · Nov 6, 2019

I said:
"I believe every book in the Bible is God breathed.

Why don't YOU believe that John 10:28 is God breathed?

That's the question."

yeshuaslavejeff said:
No.
That's simply your opinion, posted frequently, apparently while ignoring "every book in the Bible"... in spite of your claims otherwise.

It looks like from your posts that what does not fit your scheme of things, is conveniently ignored.

It appears from your response to my post that you DO believe that recipients of eternal life can perish.

So, to finally clear it up, do you believe that recipients of eternal life CAN perish?
Yes or no.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 6, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Not at all, but this is something perhaps enlightening to consider/ see/ pray for ....

Whatever most everyone on earth THINKS GOD DID, is not true.

Even a lot of Christians "are sure" GOD DID something, and they find out , HOPEFULLY in this life, that what they were taught was wrong.

Multitudes don't find out a vital matter UNTIL JUDGMENT DAY - multitudes who THINK they KNEW what GOD DID, but He Did not , and they are told, too late too change, bye!

Uh, what in the world are you trying to say? Could you just speak plainly?

FreeGrace2 · Nov 6, 2019

S.ilvio said:
"If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned” (John 15:2, 6)

If we turn away we will be cut off and thrown into the fire. What more clarity do you need..?

The clarity is in how "cut off" would be understood by Hebrew believers.

All through the OT the words "cut off" were used to refer to capital punishment, or physical death as a result of crimes committed.

Please provide any verse that clearly indicates that "cut off" means loss of salvation.

But why bother? We KNOW what Jesus said. Recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH. John 10:28

Do you believe what Jesus said about recipients in John 10:28 or not?

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 6, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
We KNOW what Jesus said. Recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH. John 10:28

Do you believe what Jesus said about recipients in John 10:28 or not?

ooops...

It seems that the verses revealing the woes, the warnings, the judgments to those who did taste of the heavenlies, but turn back to the world to worship other gods instead of the one true God,
are being ignored , dangerously too. The results may be life-threatening or life-ending at times. (and the results of other associated teachings, that go with the false teachings currently present, that are not elaborated (and won't be) in this thread....

Salvation Cannot be Lost

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