The 'Prosperity Gospel'

timothyu said:

Who said put the will of the Father first, loving all as self.

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Loving God and loving others are the sum total of the law of Moses, which none of us can keep.

galatians 3 is the clearest explanation that we are no longer under that law once Christ came and died for us. He fulfilled the law on our behalf and credit that to us when we accept his death burial resurrection

Guojing said:

Loving God and loving others are the sum total of the law of Moses, which none of us can keep.

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Excuses for not trying?

timothyu said:

Excuses for not trying?

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You have obviously not grasp the significance of Paul warning about trying to keep the law in Galatians 3.

Meditating on that chapter will do you good

Guojing said:

You have obviously not grasp the significance of Paul warning about trying to keep the law in Galatians 3.

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I put it in context with Jesus' teachings.

timothyu said:

I put it in context with Jesus' teachings.

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Jesus was sent in the flesh only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

Paul is your apostle, Jesus called him to the Gentiles. His words are the words of the ascended Christ for you.

Guojing said:

But when it comes to healing and finances, our natural eyes makes it hard for us to take the bible literally. It is Indeed harder to us to say rise, get up and walk

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That's because the Bible doesn't say it. There are a few proof texts, taken out of context, that people claim prove this, but it is not what the Bible, or Jesus, teaches. You can't take literally something that isn't there.

I have given you a number of verses showing Jesus' teaching on money; seems like you have chosen to ignore them.
I have quoted verses which show that there is a cost to being a disciple; seems like you are ignoring those too.
I have pointed out that Jesus never said to anyone, "you have already been healed; you need to accept it/visualise it/agree with God that it has happened and then you will be healed". Clearly you can't refute this and prove otherwise from Scripture, because it never says it.

timothyu said:

So you will conveniently ignore His commandments? That is not believing in the Son. Message, not just messenger.

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I'm not ignoring anything.
Are you ignoring John 6:40 where Jesus says that his Father's will is that everyone who accepts the Son will have eternal life?

Guojing said:

Jesus was sent in the flesh only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

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Which is why, I suppose, he told a Samaritan woman that he was the Messiah, John 4:26 and healed a Roman centurion's servant, Luke 7:1-10 the daughter of a Syro-Phonecian woman, Mark 7:24-30 and a Samaritan, Luke 17:1-10.
Jesus didn't refuse to heal, or teach, people because they weren't Jews. He also told his disciples to go into all the world and preach the Gospel, Matthew 28:19-20; to the ends of the earth, Acts of the Apostles 1:8.

Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles, but usually went to the Synagogues first and spent much time arguing with the Jews.

Strong in Him said:

That's because the Bible doesn't say it. There are a few proof texts, taken out of context, that people claim prove this, but it is not what the Bible, or Jesus, teaches. You can't take literally something that isn't there.

I have given you a number of verses showing Jesus' teaching on money; seems like you have chosen to ignore them.
I have quoted verses which show that there is a cost to being a disciple; seems like you are ignoring those too.
I have pointed out that Jesus never said to anyone, "you have already been healed; you need to accept it/visualise it/agree with God that it has happened and then you will be healed". Clearly you can't refute this and prove otherwise from Scripture, because it never says it.

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It’s because I see your mind is already fixed on this issue so there is no point, Nor do I really need to, convince you otherwise.

If you don’t want to believe in divine healing as part of the finished work, I am fine.

Strong in Him said:

Which is why, I suppose, he told a Samaritan woman that he was the Messiah, John 4:26 and healed a Roman centurion's servant, Luke 7:1-10 the daughter of a Syro-Phonecian woman, Mark 7:24-30 and a Samaritan, Luke 17:1-10.
Jesus didn't refuse to heal, or teach, people because they weren't Jews. He also told his disciples to go into all the world and preach the Gospel, Matthew 28:19-20; to the ends of the earth, Acts of the Apostles 1:8.

Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles, but usually went to the Synagogues first and spent much time arguing with the Jews.

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Again I am fine if you don’t see it that way. That is another topic unrelated to this current thread

Guojing said:

It’s because I see your mind is already fixed on this issue so there is no point, .

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You could convince me very easily by quoting where Jesus, the Son of God, promised that he would give all his followers large bank balances and easy lives.
Clearly you can't do that.

Guojing said:

Again I am fine if you don’t see it that way. That is another topic unrelated to this current thread

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Yet you were the one who raised the matter of Jesus coming only to the Jews and Paul being an apostle to the Gentiles.
It's rather unfair to make a statement and, when someone posts Scripture that challenges it, say "oh, that's off topic."

Guojing said:

Paul is your apostle

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Sorry, but Jesus is the Messiah and the King of the Kingdom. He comes first before any henchmen..

He was also referring to accepting the Gospel of the Kingdom which He was sent to deliver (by His own words) Believe in the message, not just the messenger.

Strong in Him said:

I'm not ignoring anything.
Are you ignoring John 6:40 where Jesus says that his Father's will is that everyone who accepts the Son will have eternal life?

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timothyu said:

He was also referring to accepting the Gospel of the Kingdom which He was sent to deliver (by His own words) Believe in the message, not just the messenger.

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That's not what that verse says.
Of course accepting the Son means believing everything he taught; it also means receiving him as your Saviour and Lord. Some people try to accept/follow the teaching without receiving Christ.

Strong in Him said:

Some people try to accept/follow the teaching without receiving Christ.

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More accept Him while ignoring His teachings which are contrary to the ways of man.. Which shows better fruits? Which serves others in this life?

timothyu said:

More accept Him while ignoring His teachings which are contrary to the ways of man.. Which shows better fruits? Which serves others in this life?

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If someone tries to follow Jesus' teachings - i.e loving others, treating them as they wish to be treated, being kind, even praying - but are not born again by the Holy Spirit, they will not bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit. They will also not be able to declare "Jesus is Lord", and mean it - singing the words in a hymn because everyone else is, doesn't count. Works are good and help others, but they do not save and are not primarily what God wants for us.
If someone confesses Jesus as their Saviour and has been born again by the Holy Spirit, John 3:3 they will produce the fruit of the Spirit because he lives in them. Paul also said that if anyone is in Christ, they are a new creation, 2 Corinthians 5:17. I think it most likely that they will follow Jesus' teaching, and will do so out of love, because they know all that he has done for them. They might not necessarily do the things that other Christians think they should be doing - e.g getting heavily involved in church and church meetings. But that is not the same thing as not serving God.

Strong in Him said:

If someone tries to follow Jesus' teachings - i.e loving others, treating them as they wish to be treated, being kind, even praying - but are not born again by the Holy Spirit, they will not bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

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What Jesus taught goes contrary to the ways of man, a counter-culture way of life. Doing what Jesus taught comes as a result of rejecting the ways of man as a way of life (repentance), the self element, thus showing they have been born again from the fleshy ways of man to the selfless ways of the spirit. Many fail to see this point claiming instead they are born again because they now know the secrets to power and well being in this world, thinking they can have it both ways. Backwards. But there will always be the two sides in this life, but this life only.

timothyu said:

What Jesus taught goes contrary to the ways of man, a counter-culture way of life. Doing what Jesus taught comes as a result of rejecting the ways of man as a way of life (repentance), the self element, thus showing they have been born again from the fleshy ways of man to the selfless ways of the spirit. Many fail to see this point claiming instead they are born again because they now know the secrets to power and well being in this world, thinking they can have it both ways. Backwards. But there will always be the two sides in this life, but this life only.

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Perhaps remember what Yahuweh Says in Romans 2 -- about men who do not "have TORAH", but they are justified(Yahuweh Says) because they DO what TORAH SAYS TO DO, while those who DO NOT DO God's Word, are NOT justified, even though they "have TORAH".
The men who do what is right, it is written in Romans 2, show that GOD HAS WRITTEN TORAH, on their hearts.

Strong in Him said:

You could convince me very easily by quoting where Jesus, the Son of God, promised that he would give all his followers large bank balances and easy lives.
Clearly you can't do that.

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Well, Psalms 103, as well as the blessings of Abraham, are more than enough for me.