Why Jesus Said that Bread was His Body

Isn't the Bread of Life an allusion to the manna that sustained the Jews. Manna came down from Heaven like Jesus.

Chris V++ said:

Isn't the Bread of Life an allusion to the manna that sustained the Jews. Manna came down from Heaven like Jesus.

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Yes, the Lord is the bread from Heaven

Jesus said such because it is true, at the Holy Eucharist Christ is truly present in the elements

Bread represents sustenance. That which is essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance (bread of life) necessary for spiritual life.

John 6:47 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
John 6:58 - He who eats this bread will live forever.

"He who believes in Me" is equivalent to "he who eats this bread will live forever" because the result is the same -- eternal life. Jesus is the Bread of Life and we eat of Him and are satisfied when we believe in Him unto salvation.

John 6:63 - "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."

Nice video and nice take on the matter, but it isn't correct.

Jesus is the Bread of Life.

charsan said:

Jesus said such because it is true, at the Holy Eucharist Christ is truly present in the elements

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The problem is not in the doctrine of "real presence." Anglicans, Methodists, and Reformed believe this. The problem is in the doctrine of Transubstantiation as believed by Roman Catholics and Greek Orthodox: that bread and wine are converted into meat and blood, even though they still look like bread and wine.

"Regarding the Eucharist, the LCMS rejects both the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation and the Reformed teaching that the true body and blood of Christ are not consumed with the consecrated bread and wine in the Eucharist.

"Rather, it believes in the doctrine of the sacramental union, Real Presence, that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present "in, with, and under" the elements of bread and wine."

"The ELCA is in full communion with the Episcopal Church, Moravian Church, Presbyterian Church (USA), Reformed Church in America, United Church of Christ, and the United Methodist Church."

Quotations are from Wikipedia.

It seems that Lutherans agree with the Methodist and Anglican position of "pious silence about technicalities."

It is possible to make the words spoken by Christ at the Last Supper be a huge analogy. Possible, yes.

However, the first century church clearly held the belief that the holy meal was more than that--that it was his very essence being given. So special was the meal that catechumens, believers who had yet to be baptized but were still being tutored, had to leave the worship service when the preparation of the bread and wine began.

All of that speaks strongly against the 'mere symbolism' POV that a minority of Christians of a much later time have adopted, strictly on the basis of their own reading of the Gospel accounts of the Last Supper.

Andrewn said:

It seems that Lutherans agree with the Methodist and Anglican position of "pious silence about technicalities."

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The Anglican position certainly is NOT one of pious silence. The church's position is enumerated in both the Articles of Religion and in the Communion service itself.

Albion said:

The Anglican position certainly is NOT one of pious silence. The church's position is enumerated in both the Articles of Religion and in the Communion service itself.

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"The historical position of the Church of England is found in the Thirty-Nine Articles of 1571, which state "the Bread which we break is a partaking of the Body of Christ"; and likewise that "the Cup of Blessing is a partaking of the Blood of Christ" (Articles of Religion, Article XXVIII: Of the Lord's Supper) and that "Transubstantiation is repugnant to Holy Writ". However, the Articles also state that adoration, or worship per se, of the consecrated elements was not commanded by Christ. It also stated that those who receive unworthily do not actually receive Christ but rather their own condemnation."


Eucharistic theology - Wikipedia


"The Eucharist (Holy Communion, Mass, or the Lord's Supper), is the means by which Christ becomes present to the Christian community gathered in his name. It is the central act of gathered worship, renewing the Body of Christ as the Church through the reception of the Body of Christ as the Blessed Sacrament, his spiritual body and blood. The matter consists of bread and wine. . . . In this sacrament, Christ is both encountered and incorporated. As such, the Eucharistic action looks backward as a memorial of Christ's sacrifice, forward as a foretaste of the heavenly banquet, and to the present as an Incarnation of Christ in the lives of the community and of individual believers."


Anglican sacraments - Wikipedia

"The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner."

That's it.

Albion said:

"The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner." That's it.

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Amen.

One interesting observation in LCMS beliefs:

Beliefs - The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

"We do not try to explain how Jesus is present under the bread and wine of the Lord’s Supper, rather we believe, teach, confess and rejoice that He is present.We Lutherans let the words of Jesus stand without arguing about their possibility, or trying to explain how they are true. As Luther put it so clearly, “We maintain that the bread and the wine in the Supper are the true body and blood of Christ”(SA III.6). Everyone who communes receives into their mouths the body and blood of Jesus Christ, whether they believe it or not, be they worthy or unworthy."

Compare the last sentence to the Anglican declaration:

"those who receive unworthily do not actually receive Christ but rather their own condemnation."

Andrewn said:

The problem is not in the doctrine of "real presence." Anglicans, Methodists, and Reformed believe this. The problem is in the doctrine of Transubstantiation as believed by Roman Catholics and Greek Orthodox: that bread and wine are converted into meat and blood, even though they still look like bread and wine.

"Regarding the Eucharist, the LCMS rejects both the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation and the Reformed teaching that the true body and blood of Christ are not consumed with the consecrated bread and wine in the Eucharist.

"Rather, it believes in the doctrine of the sacramental union, Real Presence, that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present "in, with, and under" the elements of bread and wine."

"The ELCA is in full communion with the Episcopal Church, Moravian Church, Presbyterian Church (USA), Reformed Church in America, United Church of Christ, and the United Methodist Church."

Quotations are from Wikipedia.

It seems that Lutherans agree with the Methodist and Anglican position of "pious silence about technicalities."

Click to expand...

I am sure the Orthodox do not believe in Transubstantiation:

The Doctrine of Transubstantiation in the Orthodox Church – Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy

We say about the same as the Orthodox, we believe it is a mystery and that it is Christ true Presence

charsan said:

I am sure the Orthodox do not believe in Transubstantiation:

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The Synod of Jerusalem was convened by Orthodox Patriarch Dositheos Notaras in March 1672.

The 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica called the Synod of Jerusalem "the most vital statement of faith made in the Greek Church during the past thousand years."

In the Synod's decrees, called the Confession of Dositheus, it reaffirmed existing Orthodox beliefs incompatible with Calvinist doctrines, restating that apostolic succession of bishops is necessary, that good works done with faith are required for salvation, that there are seven sacraments, that the Eucharist is both sacrament and sacrifice, offered for the dead as well as for the living.

DECREE XVII:

'In the celebration whereof [of Eucharist] we believe the Lord Jesus Christ to be present, not typically, nor figuratively, nor by superabundant grace, as in the other Mysteries, nor by a bare presence, as some of the Fathers have said concerning Baptism, or by impanation, so that the Divinity of the Word is united to the set forth bread of the Eucharist hypostatically, as the followers of Luther most ignorantly and wretchedly suppose, but truly and really, so that after the consecration of the bread and of the wine, the bread is transmuted, <145> transubstantiated, converted and transformed into the true Body Itself of the Lord, Which was born in Bethlehem of the ever-Virgin {Mary ELC}, was baptised in the Jordan, suffered, was buried, rose again, was received up, sitteth at the right hand of the God and Father, and is to come again in the clouds of Heaven; and the wine is converted and transubstantiated into the true Blood Itself of the Lord, Which as He hung upon the Cross, was poured out for the life of the world. {John 6:51}

"Further [we believe] that after the consecration of the bread and of the wine, there no longer remaineth the substance of the bread and of the wine, but the Body Itself and the Blood of the Lord, under the species and form of bread and wine; that is to say, under the accidents of the bread.

Further, that the all-pure Body Itself, and Blood of the Lord is imparted, and entereth into the mouths and stomachs of the communicants, <146> whether pious or impious.

the bread of the Prothesis set forth in all the several Churches, being changed and transubstantiated, becometh, and is, after consecration, one and the same with That in the Heavens. For it is one Body of the Lord in many places, and not many; and therefore this Mystery is the greatest, and is spoken of as wonderful, and comprehensible by faith only, and not by the sophistries of man’s wisdom; whose vain and foolish curiosity <148> in divine things our pious and God-delivered religion rejecteth.

Further, that the Body Itself of the Lord and the Blood That are in the Mystery of the Eucharist ought to be honoured in the highest manner, and adored with latria. For one is the adoration of the Holy Trinity, and of the Body and Blood of the Lord. Further, that it is a true and propitiatory Sacrifice offered for all Orthodox, living and dead; and for the benefit of all, as is set forth expressly in the prayers of the Mystery delivered to the Church by the Apostles, in accordance with the command they received of the Lord."

The Confession of Dositheus @ ELCore.Net

You can get it from the horses mouth in The Orthodox sub forum they do not believe in Transubstantiation

Dennis12 said:

At the Last Supper Jesus became one with our lost and broken creation. And how by rising from the dead God demonstrated the reality of his promise of new life to the lost and broken. This video explains this using words and pictures.

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I have understood it means this:

The old covenant was confirmed by animal’s body and blood. Jesus came to make new covenant and it also was confirmed with body and blood. And in the covenant Jesus made, the body was the bread and the blood was the wine. And now, everyone who participates to that, participates to that new covenant.

charsan said:

You can get it from the horses mouth in The Orthodox sub forum they do not believe in Transubstantiation

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Vide supra.

Here is also belief of the Oriental Orthodox:

The question of the real presence is of considerable importance in relation to the differences, which have emerged within Christianity since the time of the so-called ‘Reformation’. A particularly important witness to the early Christian understanding of this Sacrament is provided by the ‘Catechetical lectures’ of St. Cyril of Jerusalem. This series of 24 lectures of instruction on the beliefs and practices of the Christian Church, given at some point around 350 AD to those preparing for baptism, are an important witness to the ideas that prevailed in the Jerusalem Church around this point. It is clear that St. Cyril regarded the bread and wine as becoming the real body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ:

• “[Jesus Christ], by his own will, once changed water into wine at Cana of Galilee. So why should we not believe that he can change wine into blood? … We should therefore have full assurance that we are sharing in the body and blood of Christ. For in the type of bread, his body is given to you, and in the type of wine, his blood is given to you, so that by partaking of the body and blood of Christ you may become of one body and one blood with Him.” (St. Cyril of Jerusalem)

St. John of Damascus wrote the following about the question of how this transformation of the bread and wine takes place:

• “And now you ask how the bread becomes the body of Christ, and the wine and the water become the blood of Christ. I shall tell you. The Holy Spirit comes upon them, and achieves things which surpass every word and thought … Let it be enough for you to understand that this takes place by the Holy Spirit” (St. John of Damascus).

http://suscopts.org/wiki/The_Sacrament_of_the_Eucharist