Bottomless Pit

joshua 1 9 · Nov 4, 2019

Sam91 said:
Wow, in 36 years I have heard that translation of the bible. Others says 'heavens', I've never connected it with Heaven though. Will have to look into it.

Jesus teaches us: "Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be Done, on Earth as in Heaven". We see this in the first word in our Bible: "Beginning". Jesus (Ben or Son of God) was given as a grain offering so that Heaven and Earth could become one. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

Heaven is a reference to the sky and represents the Sun, Moon & Stars in the Sky.

JM · Nov 4, 2019

ewq1938 said:
It's not overly anything. It's plainly written scripture about never ending time counted in months. Eternity is an eternity of time.

This is why you will never understand types and shadows, symbolism and allegory, you are too literalistic and cannot understand the use of symbols in the bible.

ViaCrucis · Nov 4, 2019

The bottomless pit or Abyss, is, like much of the stuff from the Apocalypse not to be taken literally. The idea of a bottomless pit conveys a certain imagery, though logically contradictory (how can a pit have no bottom?); but the idea it is conveying, of a pit without bottom, an abyss in which there is no closure, no end to the drop is powerful imagery.

This isn't the only kind of language like this, Gehenna is described by Jesus as both consisting of fire as well as darkness. The Apocalypse describes a lake of fire as being a "second death". Taken literally, this language amounts to nonsense. Fire doesn't produce darkness; how does that which is already dead die? Indeed, how can an abstract concept like death itself die? Yet that is the language we read, even death and hades are cast into the lake of fire, the second death.

It is precisely this kind of language that makes trying to treat such things literally result in the completely absurd.

-CryptoLutheran

JM · Nov 4, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
The bottomless pit or Abyss, is, like much of the stuff from the Apocalypse not to be taken literally. The idea of a bottomless pit conveys a certain imagery, though logically contradictory (how can a pit have no bottom?); but the idea it is conveying, of a pit without bottom, an abyss in which there is no closure, no end to the drop is powerful imagery.

This isn't the only kind of language like this, Gehenna is described by Jesus as both consisting of fire as well as darkness. The Apocalypse describes a lake of fire as being a "second death". Taken literally, this language amounts to nonsense. Fire doesn't produce darkness; how does that which is already dead die? Indeed, how can an abstract concept like death itself die? Yet that is the language we read, even death and hades are cast into the lake of fire, the second death.

It is precisely this kind of language that makes trying to treat such things literally result in the completely absurd.

-CryptoLutheran

Agreed.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 4, 2019

Sam91 said:
Now that is a sobering thought. How many are just walking towards that pit and do not realise.

Starting with Jesus' Words: the blind lead the blind and both fall into the pit.

For billions of people worldwide/ at least two thirds of the population REFUSES to stop worshiping(serving) demons /idols... (per the APocalypse: Revelation to John)

ewq1938 · Nov 4, 2019

sdowney717 said:
Paradise was never Heaven.

Heaven is called Paradise in scripture. Heaven is never said to have ever been in hell though. Neither does Paradise somehow move from hell to heaven either. That is a man made false doctrine.

ewq1938 · Nov 4, 2019

JM said:
This is why you will never understand types and shadows, symbolism and allegory, you are too literalistic and cannot understand the use of symbols in the bible.

Months of time is not symbolism. You are wrongly applying symbolism to something that is not symbolism therefore what you said, "This is why you will never understand types and shadows, symbolism and allegory" applies to you and not to myself.

nonaeroterraqueous · Nov 5, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
Taken literally, this language amounts to nonsense. Fire doesn't produce darkness

On a dark starry night look up at the black sky and observe the perpetual lakes of fire that fail to illuminate the blackness. This is what you call nonsense. A pit without walls or bottom has nothing to illuminate, and no manner of light can ever break it, because the light never returns.

ViaCrucis · Nov 5, 2019

nonaeroterraqueous said:
On a dark starry night look up at the black sky and observe the perpetual lakes of fire that fail to illuminate the blackness. This is what you call nonsense. A pit without walls or bottom has nothing to illuminate, and no manner of light can ever break it, because the light never returns.

But the stars aren't failing to illuminate. We literally are seeing them because they are luminous.

-CryptoLutheran

JM · Nov 5, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Months of time is not symbolism. You are wrongly applying symbolism to something that is not symbolism therefore what you said, "This is why you will never understand types and shadows, symbolism and allegory" applies to you and not to myself.

Sure it is. Example, For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. Psalm 50:10

So, every cattle upon a thousand hills, and 1,000 hills ONLY, belongs to God? Don't think so.

He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:2

Is it 1000 years? Could it be 999 years? or 1001 years? Is Satan bound with a physical chain? How do you bind a spiritual being with a physical chain?

Get my drift?

ewq1938 · Nov 5, 2019

JM said:
Sure it is. Example, For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. Psalm 50:10

So, every cattle upon a thousand hills, and 1,000 hills ONLY, belongs to God? Don't think so.

He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:2

Is it 1000 years? Could it be 999 years? or 1001 years? Is Satan bound with a physical chain? How do you bind a spiritual being with a physical chain?

Get my drift?

This has nothing to do with the fact that the eternity has months where the tree of life gives fruit.

JM · Nov 5, 2019

ewq1938 said:
This has nothing to do with the fact that the eternity has months where the tree of life gives fruit.

It does and the fact that you can't understand my point is telling.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Hawkins · Nov 6, 2019

Before I am a Christian, I stayed in Hades/sheol for awhile (yeah, somehow it is so). I can tell it's very much close to what are in the Jewish concepts. These concepts were upheld by the Jews in majority back in Jesus' days, while Jesus' didn't reject these concept but made use of them.

Hades (the human side) is best described as the gloomy dungeons. It has dimmed lighting but you barely see things. It's air in nature but visually resembles an under water view or effect. Water baptism means you will be buried there then resurrected. It can thus be deduced that it's like an ocean, the "deeper" it goes the darker it becomes.

Abyss/pit may refer to the fallen angel side of it, where they are chained. Somehow sometimes they can wander off Abyss to go to the human side of Hades. Humans souls can thus see them. It is possible that they can cast influence on those human souls in Hades. They may even cast influence onto humans living on earth. Perhaps that's why it is said the devil is walking on the surface of earth to look for souls to devour.

Moreover I speculated how they talked, it seems to me that everything appears to be in my native tongue, even from the fallen angel I happened to see. One thing worth mentioning is that when you hear the gnashing of teeth, you know someone is out there, someone you never want to meet but may have to face if you are an unbeliever. That's what I can tell.

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