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keras · Nov 3, 2019

Biblewriter said:
Your answer is a blatant denial of what the passage I quoted EXPLICITLY says. For it EXPLICITLY says that those Israelites that “concerning the gospel are enemies” are yet “beloved.” And why? “For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.”

So this passage EXPLICITLY says that these unbelieving Jews still have an irrevocable calling.

Your mistake BW, is in thinking that the Jewish State of Israel is the only Israel.
They are as Romans 2:29 EXPLICITLY tells us; Not Jews or Israelites at all.
Jesus describes them as belonging to the synagogue of Satan, Revelation 2:9 and many prophesies tell of their forthcoming demise. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:14, +

Despite the convolutions of those who want a Jewish Israel on earth, while they sit in heaven, Galatians 6:14-16 and other scriptures are quite clear; all the faithful, born again Christian people are the Israelites of God.

Douggg · Nov 3, 2019

keras said:
Despite the convolutions of those who want a Jewish Israel on earth, while they sit in heaven, Galatians 6:14-16 and other scriptures are quite clear; all the faithful, born again Christian people are the Israelites of God.

Paul in Galatians 6:14-15 saying Christians are new creatures, not new Israelites. 1Corithians5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Futhermore, there is no pecking order to all who are in Christ, according to being a Jew, Greek, bond, free, male, female. Those things don't matter.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Paul, in Galatians 6:15-16 said peace be upon them, new creatures, as being circumcised or uncircumcised is irrelevant,

and peace be upon the Jews who had received Jesus, who walk in that rule that circumcised or uncircumcised means nothing when it comes to be a new creature in Christ - those Jews are the Israel of God.

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

It is not saying that gentiles, by virtue of becoming Christians, have turned into the Israel of God.

Biblewriter · Nov 3, 2019

Romans 11:28. The one we have been discussing. This scripture EXPLICITLY says EXACTLY what you are denying it says.

Douggg · Nov 3, 2019

keras said:
Jesus describes them as belonging to the synagogue of Satan, Revelation 2:9 and many prophesies tell of their forthcoming demise. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:14, +

Daniel 12;1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

keras · Nov 4, 2019

Douggg said:
Daniel 12;1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

….every one whose name is Written in the Book of Life.
How do we get our names in that Book? By our faith and trust in Jesus.
By that criteria, which you can't dispute, maybe .05% of the Jews qualify.

Only a very small proportion of those who will be saved by the Lord during His Day of fiery wrath, will be Jewish. The rest will suffer the fate prophesied for them: Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Romans 9:27

BABerean2 · Nov 4, 2019

Biblewriter said:
And not a single one of these scriptures even mentions the idea of a "spiritual Israel."

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

What did Christ say to Nicodemus about a person being "born again" of the Spirit of God?

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Are you like Nicodemus? Do you not know these things?

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Biblewriter · Nov 4, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

What did Christ say to Nicodemus about a person being "born again" of the Spirit of God?

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Are you like Nicodemus? Do you not know these things?

.

And what, pray tell, has that to do with the concept of a "spiritual Israel"?

Douggg · Nov 4, 2019

keras said:
….every one whose name is Written in the Book of Life.
How do we get our names in that Book? By our faith and trust in Jesus.
By that criteria, which you can't dispute, maybe .05% of the Jews qualify.

But the Jews, Israel, become believers in Jesus at the time Michael stands up and goes to war against Satan in Revelation 12:7-9.

BABerean2 · Nov 4, 2019

Biblewriter said:
And what, pray tell, has that to do with the concept of a "spiritual Israel"?

Jesus Christ, who was the ultimate fulfillment of Israel, explained to Nicodemus, who was an Israelite, that a person cannot inherit the kingdom of God without being "born again" of the Spirit of God.

This is confirmed in Luke 3:16, and Acts of the Apostles 11:15-16, and Romans 2:28-29, and Romans 8:9, and 1 Corinthians 3:16, and Ephesians 1:13, and Ephesians 4:4-5, and 1 John 2:27.

If you do not understand the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of those who belong to Christ, it is no wonder you cannot understand the New Covenant, and the difference between Israel of the promise, and Israel of the flesh in Romans 9:8.

Do you know the difference between the Baal worshipers and the faithful remnant of Israel, in Romans 11:1-5? The answer is found below in an Israelite who was the father of John the Baptist.

Luk_1:67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:

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keras · Nov 4, 2019

Douggg said:
But the Jews, Israel, become believers in Jesus at the time Michael stands up and goes to war against Satan in Revelation 12:7-9.

We Christians are the Israelites of God. Galatians 6:14-16

The Jewish State of Israel will be gone at the Sixth Seal event. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Zephaniah 1:14-18, +, and only a tiny remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

Daniel 11:45 to Daniel 12:1-5, refers to the time of Jesus Return. Those of Daniel's people; the Jews will be delivered, everyone whose name is Written in the Book of Life. ONLY the faithful Christians, about .05%, if that.
A general Jewish redemption is nowhere stated in the Bible. Belief in that idea, to support the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is a fools notion and shows how some will ignore the truths of scripture for their own fanciful beliefs.

Douggg · Nov 4, 2019

keras said:
A general Jewish redemption is nowhere stated in the Bible. Belief in that idea, to support the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is a fools notion and shows how some will ignore the truths of scripture for their own fanciful beliefs.

Rmans 11;25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Biblewriter · Nov 4, 2019

It is simply nonsense to imagine that these scriptures establish the concept of a “spiritual Israel.”

Biblewriter · Nov 4, 2019

keras said:
A general Jewish redemption is nowhere stated in the Bible. Belief in that idea, to support the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is a fools notion and shows how some will ignore the truths of scripture for their own fanciful beliefs.

This is contrary to explicit statements of Isaiah 4, Isaiah 66, Ezekiel 20, Ezekiel 36, Ezekiel 47, Zechariah 12, and Romans 9-11.

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 4, 2019

Dave L said:
Scripture knows nothing of a pre-trib rapture. The top dogs admit it.

What about this "rapture" in Revelation 11:12?
Does that occur before or after the trib ?

Acts 1:8
But ye will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and ye will be My witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Revelation 11:
11 And after the three days and half days, a breath of life out of the God entered in them and they stand upon their feet and great fear falls upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a Voice great out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!" And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud....

WanderedHome · Nov 4, 2019

JM said:
What are the top three reasons you hold to the eschatological position you have now? If you feel up to it please state your position (example Premil, Pretrib, Futurist, etc) This is open to all, to anyone willing to share their theological reflections, thanks in advance.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

The book of Revelation was almost not included in the Canon of Scripture because of its nature. It is not very profitable to pry into John's visions too much as it can lead a person either to be distracted from the path of salvation or cause them to stumble into heresy. Our primary pursuit should be prayer, humility, and repentance. Make sure your lamps are trimmed and ready to go.

keras · Nov 4, 2019

Douggg said:
Rmans 11;25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Which Israel, Douggg?
The Jewish State of people who call themselves Israel, or the true righteous, faithful Israelites of God, the Overcomers for Him, the Victorious ones, as seen in each of the 7 Churchs of Revelation.

Note well: Romans 11:13-24, where the Jewish 'branches' have been removed, Matthew 21:43, and can only be 'grafted back in' by becoming Christian. As Jeremiah 12:14-16 confirms.

It is useless for you to just put up scripture, as though that would make your case. I and many others read those verses with the understanding of God's Plan for His Christian people, not the apostate and Jesus rejection peoples.
You like to think scripture supports the 'rapture to heaven' belief, a theory that simply isn't found in the Bible.

keras · Nov 4, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
What about this "rapture" in Revelation 11:12?
Does that occur before or after the trib ?

Acts 1:8
But ye will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and ye will be My witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Revelation 11:
11 And after the three days and half days, a breath of life out of the God entered in them and they stand upon their feet and great fear falls upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a Voice great out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!" And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud....

Don't you just love how those two Witnesses get killed and lie dead for 3 days?
Looking forward to that, you 'rapture' believers?

BABerean2 · Nov 4, 2019

Biblewriter said:
It is simply nonsense to imagine that these scriptures establish the concept of a “spiritual Israel.”

What do you call an Israelite, like the father of John the Baptist, who was filled with the Holy Spirit? Would you call him "nonsense", or would you call the Holy Spirit "nonsense" ?

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Biblewriter · Nov 5, 2019

BABerean2 said:
What do you call an Israelite, like the father of John the Baptist, who was filled with the Holy Spirit? Would you call him "nonsense", or would you call the Holy Spirit "nonsense" ?

.

being "filled with the Spirit" and a "spiritual Israel" are to ENTIRELY different concepts. One is scriptural, the other is imaginary.

BABerean2 · Nov 5, 2019

Biblewriter said:
being "filled with the Spirit" and a "spiritual Israel" are to ENTIRELY different concepts. One is scriptural, the other is imaginary.

Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?

Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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