God wins in the end. But do we not need to be concerned about fighting against the enemy?

aiki said:

Christ has gained the victory over the devil (1 John 3:8; Colossians 2:15; 1 Corinthians 15:57; Romans 8:37); Christ has conquered sin and death (Romans 5:20-21; Romans 8:2); he has freed us from the power of the "old man" (Romans 6:6); through Christ, the believer is also "crucified unto the World" (Galatians 6:14). There is nothing more for the believer to do but know that these things are so and by faith stand fully upon them in humility and full dependence upon God.

If there is a battle, then, it is to live consistently in the divine promises given in Scripture to all saints that constitute their spiritual inheritance in Christ. (2 Peter 1:4) As a disciple of Christ appropriates these promises increasingly in his life, his struggles against the World, the Flesh and the devil resolve into a stable, holy, joyful Spirit-filled life. A believer only wars against these "enemies" insofar as he has not yet entered into the rest of the "Promised Land" he has in Christ. (Matthew 11:28-30; Hebrews 4:9-11)

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grasping the after wind said:

Not concerned but involved.

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7

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You said:

There is a connotation to the word concerned that simply does not fit what we ought to be doing. When one says one is concerned one may be saying one has misgivings about how things will turn out. I prefer the word involved which means we are participating and does not carry the implication that we might be afraid of how things will turn out.

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grasping the after wind said:

I believe the question was not should we be concerned about God but should we be concerned with fighting against the enemy. Don't move the goal posts on me.

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aiki said:

No where in Romans 7 or in the two chapters prior to it does Paul mention circumcision. I don't see, then, how you can assert that Paul was "referring to the portions of Scripture for those Christians who were being deceived by Jews to be circumcised." Paul doesn't mention circumcision in chapter 8, either.

In Romans 7, I think verse 6 is a key verse:

Romans 7:6
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The following passage from the latter part of Romans 7 is also key:

Romans 7:21-22
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

These verses summarize the thoughts Paul was presenting in Romans 7. They are taken up, not with circumcision, but first with explaining that the post-Calvary, born-again believer is free from a law, rule, or command-oriented spiritual life characteristic of the Old Covenant follower of God unto a life lived in the "newness of spirit, not in the oldness of the letter." The latter part of chapter 7 is oriented upon the inner struggle Paul had between the "law of sin in his members" and the "law of his mind" that desired to serve God. Nothing in his comments focus at all upon circumcision or Jews who were urging it upon the members of the Early Church. In light of these things, it appears to me that YOU are the one whose understanding of Romans 7 is in error.

Now, Galatians is a different story. In Paul's letter to the Galatian believers he is at times doing just as you say. But this doesn't make any difference to the point I was making in citing Galatians 5:17. Regardless of the Judaizers oppressing the Galatian Christians, Paul's description of the battle between the flesh and the Spirit in Galatians 5:17 pertains, in one degree or another, to the experience of all believers. We all of us must endure the war that goes on between the flesh and the Spirit - especially early on one's life in Christ.



??? I didn't say that he was.



Again, I didn't say that he was. I would point out, though, that sanctification is the result of salvation, accomplished for the believer - not by them - by Christ. He sanctifies every born-again believer perfectly, which he must do if they are to be accepted by God. (1 Corinthians 1:2, 30; 6:11; Hebrews 10:10; 1 Peter 1:2; Jude 1:1)


What words are you talking about, exactly? Being Baptist has little to do with whether or not I am accurately rendering biblical truth. My words arise from my understanding of God's word, not from my denomination.



I guess you haven't read 1 Corinthians...



??? Because he can cause a believer harm, obviously.



??? Yikes! It is astonishing to me to read such questions, as though the only motive one could possibly have for obedience to God is fear of hell. Scripture urges a totally different motivation for walking with God: LOVE. (Matthew 22:36-38; 1 John 4:16-19) In fact, love for God is the only motivation God accepts for our obedience to Him. (1 Corinthians 13:1-3)

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1. Galatians 2:3 says, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:”
   
   
2. Galatians 5:2 says, “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”
   
   
3. Galatians 5:6 says, “For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”
   
   
4. Galatians 6:15 (NLT) says, “It doesn't matter whether we have been circumcised or not. What counts is whether we have been transformed into a new creation.”
   
   
5. 1 Corinthians 7:18-19 says, 18 For instance, a man who was circumcised before he became a believer should not try to reverse it. And the man who was uncircumcised when he became a believer should not be circumcised now. (NLT) 19 “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.” (NASB)
   
   
6. Romans 2:28-29 says, “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”
   
   
7. Romans 3:1 says, “What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?”
   
   
8. Romans 4:9-12 says, ”9 “Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.”
   
   
9. Acts of the Apostles 21:21 says, “And they are informed of you, that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.”

1. Acts of the Apostles 15:1 says, “And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”
   
   
2. Acts of the Apostles 15:5 says, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
   
   
3. Acts of the Apostles 15:24 says, “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”

aiki said:

No where in Romans 7 or in the two chapters prior to it does Paul mention circumcision. I don't see, then, how you can assert that Paul was "referring to the portions of Scripture for those Christians who were being deceived by Jews to be circumcised." Paul doesn't mention circumcision in chapter 8, either.

In Romans 7, I think verse 6 is a key verse:

Romans 7:6
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The following passage from the latter part of Romans 7 is also key:

Romans 7:21-22
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

These verses summarize the thoughts Paul was presenting in Romans 7. They are taken up, not with circumcision, but first with explaining that the post-Calvary, born-again believer is free from a law, rule, or command-oriented spiritual life characteristic of the Old Covenant follower of God unto a life lived in the "newness of spirit, not in the oldness of the letter." The latter part of chapter 7 is oriented upon the inner struggle Paul had between the "law of sin in his members" and the "law of his mind" that desired to serve God. Nothing in his comments focus at all upon circumcision or Jews who were urging it upon the members of the Early Church. In light of these things, it appears to me that YOU are the one whose understanding of Romans 7 is in error.

Now, Galatians is a different story. In Paul's letter to the Galatian believers he is at times doing just as you say. But this doesn't make any difference to the point I was making in citing Galatians 5:17. Regardless of the Judaizers oppressing the Galatian Christians, Paul's description of the battle between the flesh and the Spirit in Galatians 5:17 pertains, in one degree or another, to the experience of all believers. We all of us must endure the war that goes on between the flesh and the Spirit - especially early on one's life in Christ.



??? I didn't say that he was.



Again, I didn't say that he was. I would point out, though, that sanctification is the result of salvation, accomplished for the believer - not by them - by Christ. He sanctifies every born-again believer perfectly, which he must do if they are to be accepted by God. (1 Corinthians 1:2, 30; 6:11; Hebrews 10:10; 1 Peter 1:2; Jude 1:1)


What words are you talking about, exactly? Being Baptist has little to do with whether or not I am accurately rendering biblical truth. My words arise from my understanding of God's word, not from my denomination.



I guess you haven't read 1 Corinthians...



??? Because he can cause a believer harm, obviously.



??? Yikes! It is astonishing to me to read such questions, as though the only motive one could possibly have for obedience to God is fear of hell. Scripture urges a totally different motivation for walking with God: LOVE. (Matthew 22:36-38; 1 John 4:16-19) In fact, love for God is the only motivation God accepts for our obedience to Him. (1 Corinthians 13:1-3)

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aiki said:

Apparently, you aren't reading what I'm writing...



None of these passages have any direct bearing on what I pointed out about Romans 7.



What you want to call "Circumcision Salvationism" I call Salvation by Works. In any case, what is the purpose in posting these verses? I have made no comment whatever upon "Circumcision Salvationism" but only pointed out that in Galatians 5:17 and Romans 7, Paul is occupied with other matters. You seem to be doling out Scripture for no apparent reason while ignoring the points I made in answer to your questions. It looks to me like you're just obfuscating or deflecting.

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