LDS Mormon Doctrine Says You Can be Both Saved and Lost

Peter1000

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It won't be the very same body---we will all be changed--from mortal to immortal, yet we will still be known. As Jesus was known and as He was able to eat and drink we will have the marriage supper with Him. We share in His humanity, never in His divinity.
1Co_15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Good point, you only left out how our bodies would be changed.

This is what Paul was trying to tell us in 1 Corinthians 15:40-42.
If we are valiant in the gospel of Jesus Christ we will be resurrected into a Celestial body, whose glory is compared to the glory of the sun.

If we are rather lazy but believed, but were not valiant in the gospel of Jesus Christ, we will be resurrected into a Terrestrial body, whose glory is compared to the glory of the moon. Much different than the glory of the sun.

Paul even gives us a hint that there is a third level if we are disbelievers, and believers that were disobedient. Note these people are pretty bad people, but even their bodies will be resurrected into a body whose glory is compared to the glory of the twinkling stars. JS tells us this is a Telestial body. Far less glory than that of the sun.

So there you have it in a nutshell, how the resurrection will go. Our bodies indeed will be changed by a fair and wise God.
 
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Peter1000

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All Christians are servants of God in this life and in the next.
It is something else entirely to say that Christians who are not completely top-notch will be eternal servants to those who surpass them in obedience. It contradicts the notion of grace, but grace isn't something Mormons put a lot of emphasis on.
We put an emphasis on grace, because without grace you cannot be saved. It is an important doctrine to us. But to us, grace is not the only factor that brings eternal life, but it is the last and most important factor.
 
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mmksparbud

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Good point, you only left out how our bodies would be changed.

This is what Paul was trying to tell us in 1 Corinthians 15:40-42.
If we are valiant in the gospel of Jesus Christ we will be resurrected into a Celestial body, whose glory is compared to the glory of the sun.

If we are rather lazy but believed, but were not valiant in the gospel of Jesus Christ, we will be resurrected into a Terrestrial body, whose glory is compared to the glory of the moon. Much different than the glory of the sun.

Paul even gives us a hint that there is a third level if we are disbelievers, and believers that were disobedient. Note these people are pretty bad people, but even their bodies will be resurrected into a body whose glory is compared to the glory of the twinkling stars. JS tells us this is a Telestial body. Far less glory than that of the sun.

So there you have it in a nutshell, how the resurrection will go. Our bodies indeed will be changed by a fair and wise God.

There is nothing said about different bodies. There is only the saved and the lost. The saved are resurrected into eternal life, the wicked are not given eternal life and go into the fire and burned to ashes, all the saved will be able to see God, there are none that can not.

Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

All the saved are changed into immortality---there are no levels.
1Co_15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
 
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Rescued One

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We put an emphasis on grace, because without grace you cannot be saved. It is an important doctrine to us. But to us, grace is not the only factor that brings eternal life, but it is the last and most important factor.

LDS grace has to be earned, just as the spirit who came to mortality had to obey laws to earn a time on earth. Only spirits who were granted the second estate could be resurrected.

Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


The Gospel and the Productive Student Life Manual:

The Plan of Salvation for Heavenly Father’s Children


Heavenly Father prepared a plan of salvation. It teaches us where we came from, why we are here, and where we are going after mortality.

  • “We will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

“We will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

“And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

“And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever” (Abraham 3:24–26).

  • “God conversed with men, and made known unto them the plan of redemption, which had been prepared from the foundation of the world; and this he made known unto them according to their faith and repentance and their holy works” (see Alma 12:30).
  • “For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39 [Scripture Mastery]).

  • Elder Richard G. Scott of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles: “Although our memory of it is withheld, before we came to this earth we lived in the presence of God, our Eternal Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ. We shouted for joy when given the privilege of coming to this earth to receive a body and to move forward in God’s plan for our happiness. We knew that we would be tested here. Our determination was to live obediently to be able to return to be with our Father forever. Part of that testing here is to have so many seemingly interesting things to do that we can forget the main purposes for being here. Satan works very hard so that the essential things won’t happen” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1997, 78; or Ensign, May 1997, 53–54).

  • Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles: “In a premortal council at which we were all present, [Jesus Christ] accepted our Father’s great plan of happiness for His children and was chosen by the Father to give effect to that plan. He led the forces of good against those of Satan and his followers in a battle for the souls of men that began before this world was formed. That conflict continues today. We were all on the side of Jesus then. We are on the side of Jesus today” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1996, 96; or Ensign, Nov. 1996, 71)

  • The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles: “The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan” (“The Family: A Proclamation to the World,” Ensign, Nov. 1995, 102).
  • Chapter 1: The Plan of Salvation for Heavenly Father’s Children
Grace is the help or strength given through the Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ. Through the grace of God, everyone who has lived will be resurrected—our spirits will be reunited with our bodies, never again to be separated. Through His grace, the Lord also enables those who live His gospel to repent and be forgiven.

Grace is a gift from Heavenly Father given through His Son, Jesus Christ. The word grace, as used in the scriptures, refers primarily to enabling power and spiritual healing offered through the mercy and love of Jesus Christ....


Because of personal choices, everyone also experiences the effects of sin (see 1 John 1:8–10; Mosiah 16:4). These effects are called spiritual death. No one can return to the presence of God without divine grace. Through the Atonement, we all can be forgiven of our sins; we can become clean before God. To receive this enabling power, we must obey the gospel of Jesus Christ, which includes having faith in Him, repenting of our sins, being baptized, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and trying to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ for the rest of our lives(see Ephesians 2:8–9; James 2:17–22; 2 Nephi 25:23; 31:20).

The grace of God helps us every day. It strengthens us to do good works we could not do on our own. The Lord promised that if we humble ourselves before Him and have faith in Him, His grace will help us overcome all our personal weaknesses (see Ether 12:27).
Grace

D&C 130:20-21
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

 
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Dale

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Good point, you only left out how our bodies would be changed.

This is what Paul was trying to tell us in 1 Corinthians 15:40-42.
If we are valiant in the gospel of Jesus Christ we will be resurrected into a Celestial body, whose glory is compared to the glory of the sun.

If we are rather lazy but believed, but were not valiant in the gospel of Jesus Christ, we will be resurrected into a Terrestrial body, whose glory is compared to the glory of the moon. Much different than the glory of the sun.

Paul even gives us a hint that there is a third level if we are disbelievers, and believers that were disobedient. Note these people are pretty bad people, but even their bodies will be resurrected into a body whose glory is compared to the glory of the twinkling stars. JS tells us this is a Telestial body. Far less glory than that of the sun.

So there you have it in a nutshell, how the resurrection will go. Our bodies indeed will be changed by a fair and wise God.


Peter,

I'm still trying to figure out why the Terrestrial Kingdom is higher than the Telestial Kingdom.

What does "Telestial" mean? I have consulted several dictionaries and none lists this word.
 
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BigDaddy4

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Just as I knew all along, people make comments that are not facts and are without any verifiable documentation.
You mean like the lds heavenly mother concept. It is you and the lds who make the claim, so, ironically, it is you who needs some facts and documentation. The misunderstanding and misapplication of scripture does not count as support, as they are just made up facts.

Reality is not on your side of this argument.
 
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BigDaddy4

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We put an emphasis on grace, because without grace you cannot be saved. It is an important doctrine to us. But to us, grace is not the only factor that brings eternal life, but it is the last and most important factor.
Jesus says he will separate the sheep and the goats. Do only the white and delightsome sheep make it to your celestial kingdom?
 
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He is the way

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Peter,

I'm still trying to figure out why the Terrestrial Kingdom is higher than the Telestial Kingdom.

What does "Telestial" mean? I have consulted several dictionaries and none lists this word.
Sorry to barge in. Telestial is a name like Mars of Jupiter. It represents a place or kingdom. The Telestial kingdom is far better than the earth we live on.
 
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He is the way

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You mean like the lds heavenly mother concept. It is you and the lds who make the claim, so, ironically, it is you who needs some facts and documentation. The misunderstanding and misapplication of scripture does not count as support, as they are just made up facts.

Reality is not on your side of this argument.
Actually it is and can be found in one of the near death experience books I have read.
 
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He is the way

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Jesus says he will separate the sheep and the goats. Do only the white and delightsome sheep make it to your celestial kingdom?
Skin color is not a prerequisite to entering into the celestial kingdom, obedience is.
 
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He is the way

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I once read a book on unicorns. Does that make them real? Your "evidence" lacks credibility.
Unicorns were real:

(Bible Dictionary | U Unicorn:Entry)

Unicorn. A wild ox, the Bos primigenius, now extinct, but once common in Syria. The KJV rendering is unfortunate, as the animal intended is two-horned.
 
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He is the way

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100% obedience, right?
(New Testament | 1 John 5:3)

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:20 - 22)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
 
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BigDaddy4

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Unicorns were real:

(Bible Dictionary | U Unicorn:Entry)

Unicorn. A wild ox, the Bos primigenius, now extinct, but once common in Syria. The KJV rendering is unfortunate, as the animal intended is two-horned.
LOL
 
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BigDaddy4

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(New Testament | 1 John 5:3)

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:20 - 22)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Did not answer the direct question.
 
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Rescued One

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Surely the Heavenly Mother would be an excellent example for all women. We must scratch our heads and wonder why the Heavenly Father doesn't tell us more about her.

However Mormons don't know which of god's wives is the mother of each mortal. They have different names. Brigham Young had 55 wives. The Mormon heavenly father probably has 2 or 3 times 55.
 
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Dale

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However Mormons don't know which of god's wives is the mother of each mortal. They have different names. Brigham Young had 55 wives. The Mormon heavenly father probably has 2 or 3 times 55.


I was under the impression that the Mormon Father God had one wife for each of the worlds that he populated. That way all of the souls that came to our earth would be from only one of his wives, which would be our Heavenly Mother. However, I haven't discussed this point with a Mormon or researched that question.
 
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Rescued One

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I was under the impression that the Mormon Father God had one wife for each of the worlds that he populated. That way all of the souls that came to our earth would be from only one of his wives, which would be our Heavenly Mother. However, I haven't discussed this point with a Mormon or researched that question.

Neither have I, but Orson Hyde preached about Jesus' polygamous wives:

"I discover that some of the Eastern papers represent me as a great blasphemer, because I said, in my lecture on Marriage, at our last Conference, that Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary, Martha, and others were his wives, and that he begat children."
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 210
Judgments of God on the United States, Etc., by Orson Hyde (Journal of Discourses 2:202-211)

Some commentators have speculated about the identity of the unnamed bridegroom. ...Bishop John Spong suggests in his book Born of a Woman that the event was actually the wedding of Jesus himself to Mary Magdalene.[8] In 1854, at a time when polygamy was an element of mainstream practice of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Latter-day Saint elder Orson Hyde made a similar suggestion, arguing that Jesus was a polygamist and that the event at Cana was his wedding to Mary Magdalene, Martha and Mary of Bethany.[9][10][11]
Marriage at Cana - Wikipedia

We will turn over to the account of the marriage in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. Yes, and somebody else too. You will find it in the 2nd chapter of John's Gospel; remember it and read it when you go home. “And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. And there were set there six water pots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. Jesus saith unto them, Fill the water pots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew); the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, And saith unto him”—that is, the ruler of the feast saith unto the bridegroom, “Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.”

Gentlemen, that is as plain as the translators, or different councils over this Scripture, dare allow it to go to the world, but the thing is there; it is told; Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee, and he told them what to do.

Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was. If any man can show this, and prove that it was not the Savior of the world, then I will acknowledge I am in error. We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified. “Has he indeed passed by the nature of angels, and taken upon himself the seed of Abraham, to die without leaving a seed to bear his name on the earth?” No. But when the secret is fully out, the seed of the blessed shall be gathered in, in the last days; and he who has not the blood of Abraham flowing in his veins, who has not one particle of the Savior's in him, I am afraid is a stereotyped Gentile, who will be left out and not be gathered in the last days; for I tell you it is the chosen of God, the seed of the blessed, that shall be gathered. I do not despise to be called a son of Abraham, if he had a dozen wives; or to be called a brother, a son, a child of the Savior, if he had Mary, and Martha, and several others, as wives; and though he did cast seven devils out of one of them, it is all the same to me.
President Orson Hyde, The Marriage Relations, Delivered at the General Conference, in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, October 6, 1854, p.82

The Marriage Relations, by Orson Hyde (Journal of Discourses 2:75-87)
 
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Did not answer the direct question.
It should have. Don't you know that you should do this:

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 6:5)

5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

(New Testament | Mark 12:30 - 31)

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Now isn't that 100%?
 
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