70% of Millennials say they are likely to vote socialist

ArmenianJohn · Nov 4, 2019

dogs4thewin said:
and many people do not want higher taxes and in fact feel that taxes are too high. If you want to talk about school ( paid for by property taxes) Trust me I know quite a few people who would love to see cheaper property taxes.

This is true. Nobody wants to see higher taxes. Rich, poor, and middle - none of them want to see higher taxes.

The reality is that there has to be taxes and it sometimes has to be higher.

The problem is that most of the burden is on the middle class. The REAL problem is that a lot of the middle class is duped into thinking they want to keep it on the middle class in order to save the super rich from paying their fair share and so they vote for Republicans who protect the super rich (including corporations) from having to pay their fair share of taxes.

rambot · Nov 4, 2019

Ken-1122 said:
We don’t put wealth in anybody’s hands, we allow people to create wealth

on the backs of their workers, sure.

That old adage is a bunch of folly. 80% of today’s millionaires are first generation rich

https://www.guidevine.com/newsroom/...generation-millionaires-wasting-time-garbage/

Pffffft. I'm not going to assume you are being obtuse but... Someone pulling in 200g a year managing to become a millionaire is not a sign of a healthy capitalist system. Class mobility in the US is pretty terrible.
An alarming number of Americans are worse off than their parents and we're not talking about it enough

What is stopping them, and whose fault is it?

the fact that they have to survive and have very little liquid assets for nebulous things that they don't understand, like investing.

Nobody says that.

your argument comes VERY close to saying exactly that. Remember: "isn't 17000 better than 18000?"

Again’ nobody says they should be content with $43/month, you’re just making stuff up now.

not those numbers but, so long as their is improvement in supposed to think the system is healthy ..non?

Are you kidding me? Those capitalists couldn’t care less about his $43 per month, as long as the rich are making their money, as far as they are concerned the system must be working

I'm confused. You repeated almost my exact point other than the lack of empathy from the rich.

Common sense tells you that when the stock market goes down, because the rich have more invested in the market than the poor, they will lose more than the poor. If you disagree, explain why; otherwise my point stands.

I want to see if I understand your argument.
So a billionaire (just 1 billion) loses 15% of his wealth in the stock market. Now he only has 850million in assets.
The poor persons who may have 800$ in assets and gets paid 18gs a year didn't lose anything
So you argument is that the wage gap is smaller?

I will respond to the rest of your replies later when I have time.[/QUOTE]

dogs4thewin · Nov 4, 2019

timothyu said:
Quite often that is how they achieve it once the takeovers begin.

Maybe so but being successful is not the same as being a bully.

dogs4thewin · Nov 4, 2019

KCfromNC said:
How many degrees or technical certifications did your last few employers pay for?

I said that they sometimes do not that they always do or that they have to do so.

dogs4thewin · Nov 4, 2019

RocksInMyHead said:
Yes, anyone willing to put in the time and effort - and pay the money. Getting your employer to pay for your schooling first requires that you find an employer willing to hire you into a position that you need schooling for without that schooling - or one that will pay for your schooling and give you a promotion when you're done. Those are both pretty uncommon situations, and becoming even less common as employees regularly switch jobs after just a few years now.

Regarding your assertions of scholarships, there isn't really any data available on a national scale for the percentage of students on scholarships, but if we pull out a school like UCLA, they offer around 100 full-ride scholarships per year. That's around 2% of the 6200 students they admitted last year. Need-based aid is more common, but you'll typically only get a fraction of that in grants. The rest is in student loans. Sure, there are private scholarships available, but most are for very small amounts of money in relation to the costs of college, and it's not feasible to fund an education on those. They're also limited in number - there aren't enough to cover every student who needs them.

I will admit it has been a decade since I went looking for scholarships, but at the time I had to sort through what seemed like 100s or 1000s of scholarships tells me there are quite a few of them out there. Many schools offer them, as well.

dogs4thewin · Nov 4, 2019

iluvatar5150 said:
lol, that’s one of the most comically simple-minded definitions I’ve heard. Where was the freedom for coal miners working for scrip? Where is the freedom for a single mother working 2-3 minimum wage part-time jobs with erratic schedules? As noted earlier, where was the freedom for slaves?

Said like someone who’s never had to support themselves with a job.

I will admit you are right ( as much as I would have liked to work ( and still do. However, I do study the law and took business classes in school and therefore know that in terms of the LAW most states and situations are at will employment ( that means that with a few exceptions such as firing based on age, race or another protected class EITHER party in a work relationship ( employer or employee) may end the relationship at any time and for any reason. Now, on the employee's side is it considered proper to give a two week notice? Yes and I certainly would advise someone did, HOWEVER in most situations legally an employee could literally walk in the boss's office at the end of the day and say I am quitting and other than maybe giving a bad reference in the furture the employer could do nothing about it. Even if you are under a contract those usually come with start and end dates and either side can choose not to reup.

rjs330 · Nov 4, 2019

Speedwell said:
No, capitalism is merely an economic system in which the productive capital of the country is in private hands. It says nothing about "freedom," one way or another. For example, at one time a considerable fraction of the productive capital of the country was in the form of chattel slaves. Where was "freedom" then?

If capitalism is about private people being able to have the ability to pursue their dreams, develope capital and be able to reap the rewards if their own labor or suffer the consequences of failure, then that is freedom. Freedom to choose, freedom to develope, freedom to experience reward and failure, that is freedom. Freedom to purchase what you want to, when you want to, from whom you want to is freedom. Freedom to hire who you want to, freedom to work for whom you want to is all capitalism.

The ultimate freedom is when your life is in your private hands. That is capitalism.

Before you misunderstand none of us capitalists believe in unfettered capitalism with zero regulations. Capitalism with only necessary adjustments or regulations is the best way to go.

Socialism is slavery to the state.

And you still struggle with answering the questions I ask. You go off in some other thing instead of addressing the questions.

rjs330 · Nov 4, 2019

David Brider said:
No, socialism isn’t bondage to a government. Pay attention.

Yes it is. Government controls all. Please read the socialist America website and their beliefs. Government will be in control

timothyu · Nov 4, 2019

dogs4thewin said:
Maybe so but being successful is not the same as being a bully.

I define success in giving, not taking. A $ amount is irrelevant because giving is giving of oneself.

Speedwell · Nov 4, 2019

rjs330 said:
If capitalism is about private people being able to have the ability to pursue their dreams, develope capital and be able to reap the rewards if their own labor or suffer the consequences of failure, then that is freedom. Freedom to choose, freedom to develope, freedom to experience reward and failure, that is freedom. Freedom to purchase what you want to, when you want to, from whom you want to is freedom. Freedom to hire who you want to, freedom to work for whom you want to is all capitalism.

The ultimate freedom is when your life is in your private hands. That is capitalism.

Before you misunderstand none of us capitalists believe in unfettered capitalism with zero regulations. Capitalism with only necessary adjustments or regulations is the best way to go.

Socialism is slavery to the state.

And you still struggle with answering the questions I ask. You go off in some other thing instead of addressing the questions.

No, I stick to the subject, Capitalism is an economic arrangement in which the productive capital of the country is in private hands. Period. When you go on about personal freedom and pursuing dreams you are turning it into a crypto-religious ideology. Certainly those noble goals are possible under capitalism, but so is slavery and oppression. There is no necessary connection with capitalism to either of those states. What makes it possible for capitalism to harbor personal freedom is something else distinct from capitalism, and that is a free democratic society.

timothyu · Nov 4, 2019

Looking forward to a day when they find a way to charge us for the air we breathe. I'm sure it's been discussed.

dogs4thewin · Nov 4, 2019

timothyu said:
I define success in giving, not taking. A $ amount is irrelevant because giving is giving of oneself.

Well you can give if you want that does not mean ( even if someone does not give to things you think he or she should that he or she is a bully.

RocksInMyHead · Nov 4, 2019

dogs4thewin said:
I will admit it has been a decade since I went looking for scholarships, but at the time I had to sort through what seemed like 100s or 1000s of scholarships tells me there are quite a few of them out there. Many schools offer them, as well.

Yes, there are thousands of scholarships out there. Maybe even hundreds of thousands. And in 2018, there were approximately 20 million college students in the US. Even if you only allowed each student to receive one scholarship (which is not the case), there would not be enough scholarships to give one to all students. And even if there were enough, most of them are for very small amounts relative to the costs of higher education. A $500 lump sum scholarship doesn't do much when your tuition is $20,000/year.

Paulos23 · Nov 4, 2019

timothyu said:
Looking forward to a day when they find a way to charge us for the air we breathe. I'm sure it's been discussed.

Once we go into space, I am sure that will happen.

KCfromNC · Nov 4, 2019

dogs4thewin said:
I said that they sometimes do not that they always do or that they have to do so.

I wasn't asking for a rigorous statistical analysis, just trying to see where your assertions on the topic are coming from. I had hoped there were at least grounded in some sort of successful personal practical application of the career advice you're giving others. You know, for a bit of consistency.

timothyu · Nov 4, 2019

dogs4thewin said:
Well you can give if you want that does not mean ( even if someone does not give to things you think he or she should that he or she is a bully.

No, but take does.

ArmenianJohn · Nov 4, 2019

dogs4thewin said:
You said that that does not come close to all. I said that anyone willing to put in the time and effort can, in fact go to school ( even if they first must get some experenice) such as when an employer pays for the employee to go to school because there is a benefit to the employer.

You're wrong. This isn't 1987 anymore. Or even 1993. Please tell me what the benefit to the employer is to pay for someone's school - this I gotta hear.

iluvatar5150 · Nov 4, 2019

rjs330 said:
If capitalism is about private people being able to have the ability to pursue their dreams, develope capital and be able to reap the rewards if their own labor or suffer the consequences of failure, then that is freedom. Freedom to choose, freedom to develope, freedom to experience reward and failure, that is freedom. Freedom to purchase what you want to, when you want to, from whom you want to is freedom. Freedom to hire who you want to, freedom to work for whom you want to is all capitalism.

The ultimate freedom is when your life is in your private hands. That is capitalism.

In a capitalist system, where a worker has no savings and has enough competition for jobs that employers push wages very, very low - below what anybody could reasonably describe as a "living wage", how much freedom does that worker have to choose? How do they experience reward? How do they purchase what they want? How do they go to work for whom they want when their skills are in oversupply?

ArmenianJohn said:
You're wrong. This isn't 1987 anymore. Or even 1993. Please tell me what the benefit to the employer is to pay for someone's school - this I gotta hear.

Yeah, I work for a publicly-traded company that's reasonably generous with perks and, while they'll pay for things like conferences and continuing education, they don't have much interest at all in paying real college tuition unless, perhaps, somebody can make a solid case that it'll help the business. I'm not aware of anybody who's done that. And given that most of the formal schooling you need to get in the door is also about all you'll need to do the jobs, I don't really blame them for taking this position, even though I wouldn't mind somebody paying me to get an MBA.

ArmenianJohn · Nov 4, 2019

rjs330 said:
Yes it is. Government controls all. Please read the socialist America website and their beliefs. Government will be in control

By your definition capitalism is also bondage to government.

dogs4thewin · Nov 4, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
You're wrong. This isn't 1987 anymore. Or even 1993. Please tell me what the benefit to the employer is to pay for someone's school - this I gotta hear.

If someone has more skills that the employer needs does that not benefit them in the long run?

70% of Millennials say they are likely to vote socialist

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