Call transcript already Exonerates Trump

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rambot

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That's just an inflammatory way of characterizing his supporters. It never surprises me to hear people who oppose him to say such things though. Inflammatory rhetoric seems to be their norm.
How would you describe people who would watch a person shoot someone and still want him/her as president?

Should I have said "the reasonable and rational crowd who would watch him shoot somebody and still think he would make a good president?"
 
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KCfromNC

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I wouldn't say you are "too dumb". Rather, liberals only trust their liberal networks who have sold their souls to the democratic party. Liberals hate trump and only want to hear what they want to hear.

I'm trying to figure out if this is projection. Or if it is a rationalization to ignore looking at the real reasons a majority of US voters have come to the conclusion that Donald should be impeached.
 
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KCfromNC

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I suspect he's even shown us the strategy he'd use. First, he'd deny that he'd done it -- regardless of how many witnesses or if there were cameras. Then, he'd call out the witnesses, try to discredit them as "deep state" or anti-Trumpists. Next, he'd admit he did it but that the person was bad, was going to do something worse, and needed to be stopped before he could do it -- that Trump was a hero for doing it. And last, he'd maintain the mantra that he did it, but there was absolutely nothing wrong with it, it was a "perfect killing."
Where's the part where his people accidentally e-mail talking points directly to House Democrats.

I mean, sure the stuff you mention all has precedent. But so does totally messing up the attempts. That's the part I don't get - when will his supporters catch on a realize how inept he is at these games?
 
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Bobber

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If Trump was impeached, Pence becomes President. How is that attempting to overturn the 2016 election?
And if someone has tried to impeach Obama what would have been said? Not the same that the impeachers were seeking to overturn the prior election as well?
 
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KCfromNC

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And if someone has tried to impeach Obama what would have been said? Not the same that the impeachers were seeking to overturn the prior election as well?
No, I doubt anyone would be so ignorant to claim something that wacky and expect to be taken seriously.
 
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The United States government had concerns about corruption in the Attorney General's office in the Ukraine (haven't heard ANYONE contradict that as a fact at the time) so they put pressure on the government to fire Shokin.
There is 0 demonstrable or other evidence that it was to protect his son. And the tactic you use of misquoting your appointment is smacks of a desperate argument

Boy, you are being as obtuse as a liberal.
So now when it comes to Democrats, a quid pro quo is "putting pressure on a foreign government"? Really?
 
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[QUOTE="KCfromNC, post: 74436641, member: 185615"majority of US voters have come to the conclusion that Donald should be impeached.[/QUOTE]
Citation please. Last I heard, only 37 percent want to see the president impeached. That is down from the 49 percent during the Mueller investigation. You have in fact proven my point that liberals are fed lies.
 
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Kentonio

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So now when it comes to Democrats, a quid pro quo is "putting pressure on a foreign government"? Really?

A quid pro quo is asking for something in return for something. The 'something' from America is congressionally approved aid. If the 'something' from Ukraine was a benefit to America then that would be fine. In this case though the 'something' appears to have been purely for the benefit of Donald Trump, and that is absolutely not fine.

How can you see a president using the power of American diplomacy as a tool for personal ambition as a good thing? I genuinely don't understand this.
 
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rambot

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So now when it comes to Democrats, a quid pro quo is "putting pressure on a foreign government"? Really?
stupid liberal me I have no idea what you're talking about.

But like all smart, rational right wingers
I'm sure you are intelligent enough to recognize the difference between national interests and the PERSONAL interests of a president? I mean, you're not a lockstep Obama lover...
 
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rjs330

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Yes, it really is. Here is the transcript again, emphasis mine:

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike… I guess Ukraine has it. There are also a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like the have the Attorney General call you or your people, and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, the whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Muller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you do, it is very important you do it if that's possible.

President Zelenskyy: Yes it is very important for me and everything that you just mentioned earlier...

I guarantee as the president President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly. That I can assure you.


The President: Good, because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut down your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Guliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New Yor City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador of the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you could look into it... It sounds horrible to me.


President Zelenskyy: ...it was great that you were the first one who told me that she was a bad ambassador because I agree with you 100%. Her attitude towards me was far from the best as she admired the previous president and she as on his side. She would not accept me a new president well enough.

The President: Well, she's going to go through some things. I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call and I am also going to have Attorney General Barr call and we will get to the bottom of it. I'm sure you will figure it out. I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor so good luck with everything. Your economy is going to get better and better I predict. You have a lot of assets. It's a great country. I have many Ukrainian friends, their (sic) incredible people.
_________________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________________________

The context was a favor. It would have been non-problematic if it was only about Ukraine investigating Ukraine. However,

The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you could look into it... It sounds horrible to me.
Then, he stated later that he predicts their economy will get better and better after Zelenskyy agreed to everything Trump had asked - including doing something about finding information on his political opponent.




Sure it can, that is what he and his constituency has been doing since before the transcript. However, the transcript specifically shows a sitting president asked a foreign power to do whatever he can do with the Attorney General to find out information on his political opponent.

You are free to ignore that.



That is not the reality; one argument is dogged in that the argument can legally stand, while the other argument is pointing out exactly what was transcribed from the conversation between the US president and the president of another nation.



Well it's nice you have the innocence to believe the justice system works that way, but no one is talking about removing the president. In fact, presidents can survive impeachment if that were to happen. Trump will remain in office, but it would be disingenuous to completely ignore what is going on. If Obama did half of the things Trump did, they would legalize lynching again just for him.

You are defending a demagogue that doesn't even have the fear of the people to hide his demagoguery - that says more about us than Trump. Politically, he is doing exactly what he should be doing. It isn't his fault we idolize global corporatism disguised as capitalism, and demagogues who promise the world and deliver dust.

It all sounds very legit to me. Asking a foreign leader to work with your AG to investigate Crowdstrike, and how things started or involved Ukraine and also how Biden stopped an investigation involving a company his son worked for using quid pro quo, admitted by Biden, is perfectly legit.

The left is off the farm again. There was perfectly legitimate requests. Biden put himself in that position by telling Ukraine they had to do what they did in order to get their money.
 
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A quid pro quo is asking for something in return for something. The 'something' from America is congressionally approved aid. If the 'something' from Ukraine was a benefit to America then that would be fine. In this case though the 'something' appears to have been purely for the benefit of Donald Trump, and that is absolutely not fine.

How can you see a president using the power of American diplomacy as a tool for personal ambition as a good thing? I genuinely don't understand this.
Are you suggesting that if Biden is guilty of corruption, Trump cannot exercise his power as the chief executive to investigate the possibility that a sitting vice president is involved in corruption? You know, the thing he ran on and got elected for. The whole "lock her up" thing?
 
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SimplyMe

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[QUOTE="KCfromNC, post: 74436641, member: 185615"majority of US voters have come to the conclusion that Donald should be impeached.
Citation please. Last I heard, only 37 percent want to see the president impeached. That is down from the 49 percent during the Mueller investigation. You have in fact proven my point that liberals are fed lies.

I'm guessing he meant the majority want impeachment hearings. At the same time, the most recent polls seem to show 49% of Americans want Trump impeached and removed from office -- and this NBC/WSJ news poll matches the Fox news poll from last week.
 
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It all sounds very legit to me. Asking a foreign leader to work with your AG to investigate Crowdstrike, and how things started or involved Ukraine and also how Biden stopped an investigation involving a company his son worked for using quid pro quo, admitted by Biden, is perfectly legit.

The left is off the farm again. There was perfectly legitimate requests. Biden put himself in that position by telling Ukraine they had to do what they did in order to get their money.
Agreed. If the left are going to make excuses for Biden and give him a pass, the left has absolutely no right to get upset about Trump asking a favor in return for nothing. A quid pro no quo.
 
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rjs330

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He's certainly not acting like a President that, as a candidate, promised to release his tax returns.

What's even funnier is how his supporters try claim that he's keeping all of his promises. What a joke.
Irrelevant, he's still not required to.
 
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A quid pro quo is asking for something in return for something. The 'something' from America is congressionally approved aid. If the 'something' from Ukraine was a benefit to America then that would be fine. In this case though the 'something' appears to have been purely for the benefit of Donald Trump, and that is absolutely not fine.

How can you see a president using the power of American diplomacy as a tool for personal ambition as a good thing? I genuinely don't understand this.
Show me exactly where in the transcript where there was any discussion about approved federal aid?
 
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Kentonio

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Are you suggesting that if Biden is guilty of corruption, Trump cannot exercise his power as the chief executive to investigate the possibility that a sitting vice president is involved in corruption? You know, the thing he ran on and got elected for. The whole "lock her up" thing?

Biden is not a sitting Vice President. As for investigating him, if there was some evidence to support it, there is a very clear process that can be followed to do so. What is not ok or legal however is the president trying to get his political rivals investigated using the weight of the US government with no evidence just because he wants to.

That’s clear political corruption intended to hurt Bidens credibility just like the ‘lock her up’ nonsense with Clinton hurt her campaign. You might notice that even after Trump won and the GOP controlled both houses of congress and the administration, they STILL didn’t actually have any evidence to lock her up with. As Trump well knows however, if you smear an opponent often enough, people will believe it regardless of evidence.
 
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Kentonio

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Show me exactly where in the transcript where there was any discussion about approved federal aid?

You mean the part where Ukraine who were waiting for the US aid to buy Javelins remind Trump about said Javelins only to be met with Trump’s demand for a ‘favor’ first.
 
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Kaon

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It all sounds very legit to me. Asking a foreign leader to work with your AG to investigate Crowdstrike, and how things started or involved Ukraine and also how Biden stopped an investigation involving a company his son worked for using quid pro quo, admitted by Biden, is perfectly legit.

It is perfectly legit for a sitting US president to ask the president of a foreign nation to investigate his/her political rival with, and through the Attorney General of the US?

So that means that any democrat and president in the future should be able to do this and there should be no whining, right?

The left is off the farm again. There was perfectly legitimate requests. Biden put himself in that position by telling Ukraine they had to do what they did in order to get their money.

I am not a leftist, liberal, conservative, neo-conservative or neo-liberal. I am just bored with how people are letting themselves be exploited by such spiritually weak entities. But, I also understand no adult can be convinced of anything unless s/he allows it - so my intention isn't to get you to believe anything.

Feel free to get exploited; Trump is doing exactly what he is supposed to do with his constituency just like every politician. Fight your fellow man since that is an easy fight (as opposed to the corporate globalism that is really destroying your life). Feed off of your emotion and let it fuel your decisions so that you can be used and exploited for political and economic profit.

Everyone must be a spiritual agent for something.
 
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SimplyMe

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It all sounds very legit to me. Asking a foreign leader to work with your AG to investigate Crowdstrike, and how things started or involved Ukraine and also how Biden stopped an investigation involving a company his son worked for using quid pro quo, admitted by Biden, is perfectly legit.

The left is off the farm again. There was perfectly legitimate requests. Biden put himself in that position by telling Ukraine they had to do what they did in order to get their money.

Your story might hold water, if only Trump had ever asked his AG to do it. It also ignores that an Independent Prosecutor was appointed to look at the 2016 election, yet no request to work with him.

Further, as I've pointed out multiple times, there appears to be a lot of evidence that Biden asked for a prosecutor be removed because it was the policy of the Obama administration, which even Republicans agreed with, not something Biden did to stop an investigation -- an investigation that did not include his son, as the company was being investigated for a period of time prior to Hunter Biden joining the company. If there is evidence that Biden did it for personal reasons, that evidence would be in the US, not Ukraine.

Are you suggesting that if Biden is guilty of corruption, Trump cannot exercise his power as the chief executive to investigate the possibility that a sitting vice president is involved in corruption? You know, the thing he ran on and got elected for. The whole "lock her up" thing?

I'm saying, and I'm guessing other here are, as well, that you do not "investigate" by asking a foreign country to do the investigation. Instead, you ask the AG to open an investigation, likely (since it is political and you want to make sure you keep things non-political) the AG appoints an Independent Prosecutor. If the AG/Independent Prosecutor feel they need help investigating things that occured in another country, they can use our treaties that allow for getting help investigating in the other country.

Trump never talked to the AG about investigating Biden, or calling the President of Ukraine. Instead, he ran a private investigation using his personal lawyer, who has stated he was there as a private citizen (not a presidential envoy). And what will likely end up hurting them worse, he used a couple of people to help him, particularly get contracts and likely also for money, that are currently indicted, and were arrested trying to flee the country.
 
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rjs330

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How would you describe people who would watch a person shoot someone and still want him/her as president?

Should I have said "the reasonable and rational crowd who would watch him shoot somebody and still think he would make a good president?"

This is a ridiculous and pointless conversation. If the president murdered someone on the street he would lose his support. You and others are trying to call all of his supporters as people who would support a murderer. It's disgusting.

Trump was stupid and ignorant for saying that. But it's typical Trump speak which is often off the wall. For you to believe that his supporters would actually do that says more about you than about them.
 
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