The ethics of voting for Donald Trump

Is it ethical to vote for Trump?

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Strathos

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The Biblical solution is marriage at a young age.

If you ask most young men out there if they would like to marry a girl who is a virgin, they say they would. Therefore they must preserve themselves in the same way.

That's again, another solution which is simply not realistic in this day and age.

Not everyone meets the standards of Christ, but that is what repentance is for. It’s disingenuous I believe to be Christians saying: “here, have a condom” as if putting a stamp of approval on this promiscuous culture. Promiscuity is a tragedy, not something to be celebrated.

Who's celebrating? It's, at best, a necessary evil.

Contraception was the stepping stone used in the US to legalize abortion. It’s when the abortion mindset originates from, the idea that people should have as much sex as they want and not have any children - that the purpose of sex is not the creation of life.

People are going to have sex. They always have and they always will. That's a fact of life. Statistics show that abstinence-only education doesn't work, as there are far more STDs and unplanned pregnancies in areas where that is the only thing taught.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Saying that comprehensive sex education should not be taught because people shouldn't be having extramarital sex is like saying that the military should be completely disbanded because people shouldn't be starting wars. It's just naive idealism.
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Iwhatever Trump’s flaws, at least he gets one thing right: he is pro-life.



Abortion is arguably the number one issue of our time. According to the Wikipedia page called “Abortion statistics in the United States,” there have been 45.7 million abortions in the United States since Roe v. Wade. By comparison, 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust. This means that 7.5 times more babies have been murdered in the womb than Jews who were gassed by the Nazis. Let those numbers sink in for a moment.

The Bible consistently confirms that God believes life begins at conception. One example is Jeremiah 1:5, which says, “Before you were in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” Another example is Luke 1:41, which says, “When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.”

How is Trump against abortion? Here are some facts on the matter:

1. Trump has chosen many nominees who are against abortion, including Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch.

2. Trump wants to completely ban abortion except for rape, incest, or when the life of the woman is in danger.

3. Trump showed support for a ban on abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy. Just In: Brody File Exclusive: Donald Trump Comes Out In Support Of 20 Week Abortion Ban

4. Trump wants to appeal the Affordable Care Act, which provides people with health insurance coverage for abortion.

5. Trump would have preferred to shut down the government rather than fund Planned Parenthood, a prominent abortion racket.

6. Trump’s VP Pence said he wants to see Roe v. Wade on “the ash heap of history,” and he has a consistent record of defending life in the womb. Democratic National Convention, the final day: 'When there are no ceilings, the sky's the limit,' Clinton says - Los Angeles Times

Because abortion is arguably the Holocaust of our day, it is of the utmost importance that we Christians vote for pro-life political leaders. We all must take a principled stand against the notable genocide that is occurring in our country. Trump isn’t perfect, but at least he is pro-life. For that reason, I believe he is the most ethical candidate to vote for next year when the 2020 presidential election takes place.

That would be a deal breaker for Christians.
Or at least it should be.

Remember
God is looking down
and seeing those abortions being performed
how sinful and embarrassing for us.

Stop our sinning or
something worse may happen to us.

M-Bob
 
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KCfromNC

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we have to tax the Christians because...

I never said anything about taxing Christians in general. In any case the lobbying organization you mentioned seemed to be endorsing particular candidates in elections, which is against the rules for tax-exempt groups.
 
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FireDragon76

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There is an exceedingly high index of suspicion that Mr. Trump’s position on abortion is a matter of political expediency. Voting for Mr. Trump is either unethical or, more likely, demonstrates astonishingly poor judgment.

He has turned a dignified office into a veritable freak show.

I agree.

Trump's presidency helped lead me to an existential crisis, and the fact more of the people I know aren't in a panic really, really disturbed me.
 
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KarlKarlingIII

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People are going to have sex. They always have and they always will. That's a fact of life.
So they should get married at a young age. Christianity isn't oblivious of these realities. I keep repeating the biblical solution so you may finally understand. If the scriptures are "unrealistic" then this society is truly damned.

Flyover America has a lot more of these problems because it's poor and doesn't have the luxury big, limousine liberal cities have in rooting out these problems. I would like to see those statistics in any case.

You keep using this language of "unwanted pregnancy", but is any child "unwanted" according to Christian teachings? No.
I agree.

Trump's presidency helped lead me to an existential crisis, and the fact more of the people I know aren't in a panic really, really disturbed me.
It's almost like ordinary people have to go on with their lives.

I never said anything about taxing Christians in general. In any case the lobbying organization you mentioned seemed to be endorsing particular candidates in elections, which is against the rules for tax-exempt groups.
With the IRS, it's rules for thee but not for me.
 
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GACfan

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I agree.

Trump's presidency helped lead me to an existential crisis, and the fact more of the people I know aren't in a panic really, really disturbed me.

After three years of witnessing conservatives bend over backwards to defend the indefensible of Donald Trump, I've completely lost my respect for the Republican Party and the Christian Right.

I've distanced myself from the Republican Party under Trump because I don't want my reputation and personal witness to be dragged through the mud of being associated with him. And to be honest, his presidency and his unwavering support and defense by conservative Christians has pushed me away from conservatism and the desire to support Republicans in an election. As a registered Independent, I would vote for a Republican if I thought it was the right choice, but it's highly likely that I will never vote Republican again or at least I will never support a Republican who supported Donald Trump.
 
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GACfan

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We need to face the reality that Donald Trump is not competent intellectually nor morally to hold office. How can it be ethical to vote for him?

Speaking of Trump's intellectual abilities, this 'stable genius' speaks at a fourth-grade level.

Trump speaks at 4th-grade level, lowest of last 15 presidents: Analysis

'Stable genius' Trump uses fourth-grade vocabulary, new analysis finds

Retired English teacher corrects letter from Trump and sends it back to White House
 
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Sparagmos

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The highly political SPLC is also a non-profit and exempt but we have to tax the Christians because...


And who is intellectual or moral? Enlighten us.


If they were Christian, they would see a child is a gift from God and stop trying to resist the laws of God and nature.


It's not "safe sex", their souls are in danger.
St. Paul in 1 Cor 11 says take a wife if you are going to fall into immorality. Not put on a condom, not get an abortion, get married. That's the biblical answer.
Sex is a gift from God, the ultimate expression of love, a great healer, a comfort, intended for pleasure and ecstasy, and one of the great joys of being human. I am truly sorry for you and your future spouse. Your views (which come from a dark place, not from god) will not lead to a healthy, satisfying sex life or marriage for either of you.
 
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Sparagmos

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Where did I say Nowhere that's where. Maybe try reading next time. I said

Young people should wait for marriage, that is what God calls us to do. But if they won't wait and if condoms are available cheaply and they refuse to buy them, that responsibility is on them not on me for not handing them out like candy for free. If they are old enough to have sex they are old enough to take responsibility for it.
This is what you said:
As a Christian, I can't condone pre-marital sex either. Yes I know it happens and yes I know it won't stop but I can't in good faith go and hand out condoms to teenagers. I do think they should be available cheaply and I do think teenagers need to know how pregnancy happens.

No need to be rude. I think most people would read that and assume you meant that handing out condoms would encourage ppl to have premarital sex.

I think anyone that’s had sex knows that interrupting the act to run to the store for condoms isn’t ideal, and a lot of young people don’t think ahead. But the important part here is education. Many pro-lifers promote abstinence only education which doesn’t teach anything about condoms! I grew up with that education and didn’t think a condom would be any better than “pulling out.”

Simply making condoms free and widely available will absolutely prevent abortions. Even if it’s just a few babies saved from abortion, isn’t it worth it?
 
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Paulos23

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So they should get married at a young age.
Then prepare for a lot more divorces.

You keep giving the Christian quick quips for these problems not recognizing they have been tried and failed more than succeed. If you want to apply them to people in your own church, fine. Just realize a secular government will not and should not apply your standards. Instead they should be looking for long term and multiple solutions that help.

The problem is that Christianity can afford to cast out people that don't succeed under their guidelines. A government cannot do so and stay successful.
 
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KarlKarlingIII

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Sex is a gift from God, the ultimate expression of love, a great healer, a comfort, intended for pleasure and ecstasy, and one of the great joys of being human. I am truly sorry for you and your future spouse. Your views (which come from a dark place, not from god) will not lead to a healthy, satisfying sex life or marriage for either of you.
That is not the Christian view of sex, which has the primary purpose of bearing children that you did not mention. We were also discussing sex outside marriage, which the scriptures absolutely condemn because it is an obfuscation of the purpose of sex.

This website provides an adequate definition:
Orthodoxy and Recovery: A Definition of inappropriate contenteia

Lust is, at its very core, the desire to use another person. It involves all kinds of manipulations, of which sex is but a single (though powerful) component. Lust is the dehumanization of others... It is not merely wanting to have sex, but to use others for that purpose without any genuine care for them.
 
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KarlKarlingIII

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Then prepare for a lot more divorces.

You keep giving the Christian quick quips for these problems not recognizing they have been tried and failed more than succeed. If you want to apply them to people in your own church, fine. Just realize a secular government will not and should not apply your standards. Instead they should be looking for long term and multiple solutions that help.

The problem is that Christianity can afford to cast out people that don't succeed under their guidelines. A government cannot do so and stay successful.
They fail only because we live in a post-sexual revolution society that pushes back against any attempt to be healed. Worship of the state and its "solutions" is a foolish replacement for God.

No one is "cast out" from the Church. The Church is a place for healing.

As a Christian you are meant to see your neighbors as brothers and sisters. Lust is inversion; we no longer see brothers or sisters, but instead objects.
 
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Paulos23

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They fail only because we live in a post-sexual revolution society that pushes back against any attempt to be healed. Worship of the state and its "solutions" is a foolish replacement for God.

I have been though that "healing", and seen friends go though it and be tortured by those that should have been helping. There are better ways than the straight and narrow that only works for a few.

No one is "cast out" from the Church. The Church is a place for healing.

Tell that to the ones that have been cast out. Or not counted in the numbers of kids in absence only programs that don't get counted because they had sex. Some churches are very selective in who they consider worthy to be saved.

As a Christian you are meant to see your neighbors as brothers and sisters.

I am not a Christian. Though I see everyone as my kin.
 
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Isilwen

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. It is not merely wanting to have sex, but to use others for that purpose without any genuine care for them.

This is what you think that every person that has pre-marital sex feels or thinks?
 
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Not David

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The Biblical solution is marriage at a young age.

If you ask most young men out there if they would like to marry a girl who is a virgin, they say they would. Therefore they must preserve themselves in the same way.

Not everyone meets the standards of Christ, but that is what repentance is for. It’s disingenuous I believe to be Christians saying: “here, have a condom” as if putting a stamp of approval on this promiscuous culture. Promiscuity is a tragedy, not something to be celebrated.
I would agree but the problem is that current society is so expensive and taking care of children gets expensive too.
 
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Kaon

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is Donald Trump evil?

We are all evil. None of us do good 100% of the time, so any good we do is just an exception to our carnality.

Does he believe he is evil? No. He believes he doesn't necessarily have to ask the Most High God for forgiveness.
 
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brinny

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brinny said:
is Donald Trump evil?
We are all evil. None of us do good 100% of the time, so any good we do is just an exception to our carnality.

Does he believe he is evil? No. He believes he doesn't necessarily have to ask the Most High God for forgiveness.
Attempting to stop the shedding of the blood of the innocent, of the "least of these" is evil?

(The shedding of the blood of the innocent is one of the seven abominations that God abhors/hates.)

"The only thing necessary for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." ~Edmund Burke

iu
 
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Kaon

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Attempting to stop the shedding of the blood of the innocent, of the "least of these" is evil?

(The shedding of the blood of the innocent is one of the seven abominations that God abhors/hates.)

"The only thing necessary for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." ~Edmund Burke

iu

Attempting to stop the shedding of innocent blood is not evil, but we humans are evil.

There is only one Human that I know of that consistently and 100% as part of His nature does good things like stopping the shedding of the blood of the innocent. If we were good, we would be the hope of those who suffer - instead of a few of us being noted and extolled for doing something we know is so outside of humanity (and we confirm it by rewarding the behavior). If it was our nature to be good - if we were good, and not evil, then we wouldn't need incentive or reward for doing good continually.

We romanticize our "evil" for ourselves. In Hebrew evil is "Ra" (interesting, considering who Ra is in the Egyptian pantheon, and what a sun god represents to the Most High God). Ra means "bad, or evil morally/naturally", but it also means "calamity, distress, harm, affliction, etc". When the Word of God says He creates evil and good, I am using the context He is using when I call humans evil - we cause calamity, distress, harm, affliction naturally, some of us are "bad" or "morally evil", and it takes us work to do good. None of us do good continually.
 
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expos4ever

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It is fascinating to see Trump supporters appeal to the abortion issue. Do you think we don’t remember that there were OTHER anti-abortion people vying for the Republican nomination?

And yet you Republicans selected a juvenile, fear- and hate-mongering clown whose words are a nauseating embarrassment to your nation.

I just heard a montage of statements from Mr. Trump on the radio: What a complete and utter goofball you have in the White House.

For your sakes, and the sakes of the rest of us, I hope enough of you come to your senses to restore a modicum of credibility to a once-respected office.
 
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brinny

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brinny said:
Attempting to stop the shedding of the blood of the innocent, of the "least of these" is evil?

(The shedding of the blood of the innocent is one of the seven abominations that God abhors/hates.)

"The only thing necessary for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." ~Edmund Burke

iu
Attempting to stop the shedding of innocent blood is not evil, but we humans are evil.

There is only one Human that I know of that consistently and 100% as part of His nature does good things like stopping the shedding of the blood of the innocent. If we were good, we would be the hope of those who suffer - instead of a few of us being noted and extolled for doing something we know is so outside of humanity (and we confirm it by rewarding the behavior). If it was our nature to be good - if we were good, and not evil, then we wouldn't need incentive or reward for doing good continually.

We romanticize our "evil" for ourselves. In Hebrew evil is "Ra" (interesting, considering who Ra is in the Egyptian pantheon, and what a sun god represents to the Most High God). Ra means "bad, or evil morally/naturally", but it also means "calamity, distress, harm, affliction, etc". When the Word of God says He creates evil and good, I am using the context He is using when I call humans evil - we cause calamity, distress, harm, affliction naturally, some of us are "bad" or "morally evil", and it takes us work to do good. None of us do good continually.
That's "sin".

However, those who deliberately SEEK the shedding of the blood of the "least of these" is what i was referring to.

God abhors it.

Loving the dark works of evil rather than the light is abhorrent to God.

It is written all throughout His Word.
 
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