The Reach of Dispensationalism

Dia Pisteos

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I am 71 and I came across a closed discussion on dispensationalism something along this line of thought, "Can Calvinist and None Calvinist be Dispensationalist".

The reason I thought this was strange was that I was taught by both who were Dispensationalist. Actually, back then we had Five point-TULIP, Four Point, Three Point Calvinist that all believed in SEVEN dispensations.

I know that covenant theology has become more popular since then but I was surprised to see that statement. The order of salvation between the Calvinist and Arminian camps and the OSLS or OSNLA camps has nothing to do with believing in Dispensationalism, at least it didn't in the past.

It is hard to find churches today that are dispensationalist. It really is sad that this view is becoming less and less. Progressive dispensationalist will eventually stop from being dispensationalist because they open the door to moving back into the camp of replacement theology. Ryrie, Pentecost, and others were Calvinist to some degree or the other, I am not, but they were. Many of my teachers were Calvinist, and yes dispensationalist who were taught at Dallas Theological Seminary. My view regarding "Salvation" is OSAL or OSNLA and basically, that has little to do with being a dispensationalist. Calvinist do trend these days to be in keeping with Covenant Theology / Replacement Theology.
 

Dan Perez

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I am 71 and I came across a closed discussion on dispensationalism something along this line of thought, "Can Calvinist and None Calvinist be Dispensationalist".

The reason I thought this was strange was that I was taught by both who were Dispensationalist. Actually, back then we had Five point-TULIP, Four Point, Three Point Calvinist that all believed in SEVEN dispensations.

I know that covenant theology has become more popular since then but I was surprised to see that statement. The order of salvation between the Calvinist and Arminian camps and the OSLS or OSNLA camps has nothing to do with believing in Dispensationalism, at least it didn't in the past.

It is hard to find churches today that are dispensationalist. It really is sad that this view is becoming less and less. Progressive dispensationalist will eventually stop from being dispensationalist because they open the door to moving back into the camp of replacement theology. Ryrie, Pentecost, and others were Calvinist to some degree or the other, I am not, but they were. Many of my teachers were Calvinist, and yes dispensationalist who were taught at Dallas Theological Seminary. My view regarding "Salvation" is OSAL or OSNLA and basically, that has little to do with being a dispensationalist. Calvinist do trend these days to be in keeping with Covenant Theology / Replacement Theology.


Hi and I will always say that dispensationalist are as divided as all other theology .

Like , there are only 2 dispensations mentioned in the bible , not 7 !

#1 One is the dispensation that Paul taught in Rom 16:25 and 26 , Col 1:25 and 26 !!

#2 The only other one is in Eph 1:10 , the dispensation of the FULNESS OF TIMES , and believe that others are called AGES / AIONS !!

dan p
 
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Biblewriter

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I am 71 and I came across a closed discussion on dispensationalism something along this line of thought, "Can Calvinist and None Calvinist be Dispensationalist".

The reason I thought this was strange was that I was taught by both who were Dispensationalist. Actually, back then we had Five point-TULIP, Four Point, Three Point Calvinist that all believed in SEVEN dispensations.

I know that covenant theology has become more popular since then but I was surprised to see that statement. The order of salvation between the Calvinist and Arminian camps and the OSLS or OSNLA camps has nothing to do with believing in Dispensationalism, at least it didn't in the past.

It is hard to find churches today that are dispensationalist. It really is sad that this view is becoming less and less. Progressive dispensationalist will eventually stop from being dispensationalist because they open the door to moving back into the camp of replacement theology. Ryrie, Pentecost, and others were Calvinist to some degree or the other, I am not, but they were. Many of my teachers were Calvinist, and yes dispensationalist who were taught at Dallas Theological Seminary. My view regarding "Salvation" is OSAL or OSNLA and basically, that has little to do with being a dispensationalist. Calvinist do trend these days to be in keeping with Covenant Theology / Replacement Theology.
I do not think it is correct that fewer and fewer churches are teaching Dispensationalism. I think the actual truth is simply that the foes of simply believing what the Bible so very explicitly says about the future are becoming more and more aggressive. So they SOUND like they are in the majority.

In this venue, the behavior of the enemies of simply believing the Bible have been so ill behaved that this has become a very unpleasant place for those who simply accept what the scriptures say about the future.
 
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thomas15

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It is interesting to me that the reformed in the covenant theology camp will accommodate all kinds of views except dispensationalism. They allow post mills, A-mills, preterists, charismatics, liberals of all types, those that baptize infants, those that only baptize adults, believers in any one of literally dozens of historical confessions and/or creeds, a wide variety of views on the Lord's table and fellowship with different denominations and so on. But not dispensationalists.

Reformed writers and theologians do one thing very well in that they churn out media, in particular works of theology at an amazing rate.
 
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Bramblewild

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There are some Dispies among the Reformed; for example, John MacArthur.

There's no doctrinal reason for them not be Dispensational.

I think some people are put off from it by the crazy fringe; those who keep trying to set a date for the return for Christ, those who want to read news headlines as if they are prophetic tea leaves, and those who want to say that the path of salvation for Israel is different than the path for the Gentiles. In other words, they're gotten burnt and burnt out over the Hal Lindseys, the Harold Campings, the Jonathon Cahns, and the John Hagees.

But if one sets aside that all-too-loud-and-popular fringe and takes Dispensationalism seriously, I really can't see any serious biblical objections to it.
 
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thomas15

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But if one sets aside that all-too-loud-and-popular fringe and takes Dispensationalism seriously, I really can't see any serious biblical objections to it.

And yet the Calvinists will tolerate the preterest, those who say with a straight face that Jesus returned in AD 70 but many will not tolerate the dispensationalists of all stripes, those who take the actual words of Bible seriously.
 
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Bramblewild

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And yet the Calvinists will tolerate the preterest, those who say with a straight face that Jesus returned in AD 70 but many will not tolerate the dispensationalists of all stripes, those who take the actual words of Bible seriously.
Preterism runs into more problems than they want to admit; for example, that Revelation was written well after the fall of Jerusalem, or if they're going to claim that the language of Revelation means it has to have been fulfilled in AD 70, why then do partial preterists want to claim that the last few chapters of Revelation have not yet been fulfilled?

Because it denies any future return of Christ, full preterism is considered outside of Christian orthodox beliefs, and maybe even heretical. But full preterism is really the only consistent form of preterism.

Dispensationalism appeals to me for two reasons--the literal interpretation of Scripture, and how it takes seriously God's promises to Israel. I'm not going to say there are not some difficulties and some tricky biblical passages, but by and large I think it's the best way of interpreting the Bible, and especially prophecy.
 
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thomas15

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Dispensationalism appeals to me for two reasons--the literal interpretation of Scripture, and how it takes seriously God's promises to Israel. I'm not going to say there are not some difficulties and some tricky biblical passages, but by and large I think it's the best way of interpreting the Bible, and especially prophecy.

So much to agree with in your posting, especially the above portion.
 
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William Lefranc

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Hi and I will always say that dispensationalist are as divided as all other theology .

Like , there are only 2 dispensations mentioned in the bible , not 7 !

#1 One is the dispensation that Paul taught in Rom 16:25 and 26 , Col 1:25 and 26 !!

#2 The only other one is in Eph 1:10 , the dispensation of the FULNESS OF TIMES , and believe that others are called AGES / AIONS !!

dan p

The bible does not teach dispensations. The NOUNS that you mentioned are only found in the KJV and a couple of times in the NKJV. Nouns cannot be taught as a doctrine. No one uses NOUNS to teach Biblical truths. These nouns are translated in 99% of all good, scholarly translations as "stewardship" or "administration." That's what "dispensations" mean!

Imagine inventing a doctrine that teaches the "Seven Administrations" or "The Seven Stewardships of the Bible." It would be ridiculous to say the least, don't you think?

But that's exactly what dispensations are: RIDICULOUS.

The Bible is about covenants.

JESUS PLUS NOTHING.jpg
 
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Biblewriter

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The bible does not teach dispensations. The NOUNS that you mentioned are only found in the KJV and a couple of times in the NKJV. Nouns cannot be taught as a doctrine. No one uses NOUNS to teach Biblical truths. These nouns are translated in 99% of all good, scholarly translations as "stewardship" or "administration." That's what "dispensations" mean!

Imagine inventing a doctrine that teaches the "Seven Administrations" or "The Seven Stewardships of the Bible." It would be ridiculous to say the least, don't you think?

But that's exactly what dispensations are: RIDICULOUS.

The Bible is about covenants.

View attachment 266133
 
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thomas15

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The Bible is about covenants.

Could you possibly be referring to the Covenant of Redemption between the Godhead, the non-existing covenant that covenant theologians talk about but is no where mentioned in the Bible?
 
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William Lefranc

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Could you possibly be referring to the Covenant of Redemption between the Godhead, the non-existing covenant that covenant theologians talk about but is no where mentioned in the Bible?

I'm talking about the new or the everlasting covenant that will never end. It appears 37 times in the NT (NASB).

Below are some examples:

Matthew 26:28
28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

Mark 14:24
24 And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.

Luke 1:72
72 To show mercy toward our fathers,
And to remember His holy covenant,

Luke 22:20
20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

Acts 3:25
25 “It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘AND IN YOUR SEED ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH SHALL BE BLESSED.’

Acts 7:8
8 “And He gave him the covenant of circumcision; and so Abraham became the father of Isaac, and circumcised him on the eighth day; and Isaac became the father of Jacob, and Jacob of the twelve patriarchs.

Romans 9:3–5 (NKJV)

3 "For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh,

4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises;

5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Romans 11:27
27 “THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM,
WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.”

1 Corinthians 11:25
25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

2 Corinthians 3:6
6 "Who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of THE SPIRIT; for the letter kills, but THE SPIRIT gives life."

Galatians 3:15

15 "Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it."

Galatians 3:17
17 "What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise."

Galatians 4:24
24 "This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar."

Ephesians 2:12
12 "Remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world."

So, you still believe that the NOUNS of "dispensations" only found in the kjv can dictate eternal doctrines?
 
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William Lefranc

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And in all of that you see a covenant of redemption between the Godhead?

Do you have special eye glasses?

Jesus Christ is our COVENANT REPRESENTATIVE. This is why He took on humanity to deal with the sin we could not deal with. He took our place at the cross so that His victory over sin and death would be ours by faith in Him.

Study covenants and you will no longer believe in manufactured dispensations.

JESUS PLUS NOTHING.jpg
 
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thomas15

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Study covenants and you will no longer believe in manufactured dispensations.

You are the individual in this particular conversation that is ignoring the actual covenant details.
 
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William Lefranc

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You are the individual in this particular conversation that is ignoring the actual covenant details.

Is this what you are talking about, or you are just playing with semantics here?

Heb. 8:8-10
10 "This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
 
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William Lefranc

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I know it's hard but there it is.

I know it is hard for you, but the truth is that God's word states very clearly that NOT all Israel is Israel. The children of the flesh (carnal and full of unbelief) are not and were never the children of God. For without faith, it is impossible to please God. (Heb. 11:6)

The entire OT confirms that because it is full of judgment against all the sinful generations of Israel,

Romans 9:6–8 (NKJV)
6 "But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac, your seed shall be called.”
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed."

Do you understand that in Isaac was wrapped up the true seed of descendants of Israel? Isaac was a "miracle baby" which means only those who are born from above (Jn 3:3, 7) are qualified to be called the true Israel of God (Gal. 6:16), which of course includes all born again Jews of 2,000 years ago and of now.

The Jews before Christ that died in faith and were faithful to the Lord were also part of God's true Israel.
JESUS PLUS NOTHING.jpg


 
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thomas15

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I know it is hard for you, but the truth is that God's word states very clearly that NOT all Israel is Israel.

So in your mind because "not all Israel is Israel" means that the unconditional promises Jehovah made to the sons of Abraham are given to the church?

I would like to know what church you belong to that is so obedient to the precepts of God that allows you to be this confident that the same breaking of promises will not happen to your assembly. May we know where you belong so that we can use that as an example of Holy living? Is that asking too much?
 
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