The IJ and the Sabbath

Bob S

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Poor Jesus for 175 years has been assigned the mundane duty of collecting the faithful's names. He made Heaven and Earth and all that is in six days, yet He has been cooped up in some room for all those years doing the same old thing it would seem He could have done in a twinkling of an eye. He, in 1844, went into a room, according to the SDA supreme authority, and when His assignment is completed will then be able to come back to Earth and take those faithful home. Does Jesus take any time off? It would seem like He would be very anxious to come back to Earth and stop all the havoc. If He does take the Sabbath off I wonder what time zone does he use to start His day off? What about the new moon days that the supreme authority forgot to keep and all of the flock has never corrected? Isaiah 58 Then there is the question about how long Sabbath is in Heaven because the SDA supreme authority tells us Heaven observes the Sabbath too. If all of Heaven stops to observe the Sabbath with all the Sabbath observers on Earth and it takes forty eight hours to complete the cycle here on Earth, is Sabbath in Heaven forty eight hours long? It just seems like it is taking a long time to get the investigation completed.

What are your thoughts?
 
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eleos1954

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Poor Jesus for 175 years has been assigned the mundane duty of collecting the faithful's names. He made Heaven and Earth and all that is in six days, yet He has been cooped up in some room for all those years doing the same old thing it would seem He could have done in a twinkling of an eye. He, in 1844, went into a room, according to the SDA supreme authority, and when His assignment is completed will then be able to come back to Earth and take those faithful home. Does Jesus take any time off? It would seem like He would be very anxious to come back to Earth and stop all the havoc. If He does take the Sabbath off I wonder what time zone does he use to start His day off? What about the new moon days that the supreme authority forgot to keep and all of the flock has never corrected? Isaiah 58 Then there is the question about how long Sabbath is in Heaven because the SDA supreme authority tells us Heaven observes the Sabbath too. If all of Heaven stops to observe the Sabbath with all the Sabbath observers on Earth and it takes forty eight hours to complete the cycle here on Earth, is Sabbath in Heaven forty eight hours long? It just seems like it is taking a long time to get the investigation completed.

What are your thoughts?

I find your disrespective comments about the dwelling place of our Lord and God quite troubling.

Hebrews 8:2

a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.

Hebrews 9:24

For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;

Hebrews 9:11

But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come, He went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands, that is, not of this creation.

Hebrews 9:12

He did not enter by the blood of goats and calves, but He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption.

Revelation 7:15

"For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.

Proverbs 18:2

A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

Attachment - Brief Overview of the Sanctuary = the Plan of Salvation - may the Lord give you understanding.
 

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Bob S

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I find your disrespective comments about the dwelling place of our Lord and God quite troubling.

Hebrews 8:2

a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.

Hebrews 9:24

For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;

Hebrews 9:11

But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come, He went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands, that is, not of this creation.

Hebrews 9:12

He did not enter by the blood of goats and calves, but He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption.

Revelation 7:15

"For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.

Proverbs 18:2

A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

Attachment - Brief Overview of the Sanctuary = the Plan of Salvation - may the Lord give you understanding.
I don't blame you one bit, I don't believe what I wrote one bit and I thank you for your insight. Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father in the most Holy place. We can't even begin to fathom how beautiful it must be.

My post is intended to give SDAs a chance to think about what they have been taught and most accept without ever dealing with where the belief came from.
 
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eleos1954

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I don't blame you one bit, I don't believe what I wrote one bit and I thank you for your insight. Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father in the most Holy place. We can't even begin to fathom how beautiful it must be.

My post is intended to give SDAs a chance to think about what they have been taught and most accept without ever dealing with where the belief came from.

Which is?
 
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Bob S

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Which is?
Which is what? SDAs have Jesus sitting counting heads from Adam to the present living. Their belief in the IJ all started in 1844 when Wm. Miller's prediction of Jesus returning didn't happen. It is called the Great Disappointment and one small band of believers felt they needed to have a reason why He didn't return. At last a reason was found. Jesus went from the Holy place in Heaven to the most Holy place to start His work of investigating each and every soul on October 22 1844. After that task is accomplished then He will return. I hope this helps.
 
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eleos1954

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Bob S

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and so .... what theology do you believe? Where do your beliefs come from?
I certainly do not believe in the Investigative judgement. My beliefs come from the new covenant. Every post I make tells my beliefs. Hint, read the green part at the bottom of every post.

The OP is not about what I believe, it is about Jesus keeping the Sabbath while going over the books and for how many hours a week. According to SDAs Jesus has been at the investigative task for 175 years. SDAs tell us all of Heaven rests every seventh day. In John 5:16-17 Jesus said the following: 16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defence Jesus said to them, ‘My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.’
 
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BobRyan

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Poor Jesus for 175 years has been assigned the mundane duty of collecting the faithful's names.

from time to time I see someone "quote themselves" then blame someone else for it. It happens more than one might think.

I don't blame you one bit, I don't believe what I wrote one bit .

curious-er and curious-er

The OP is not about what I believe, it is about Jesus keeping the Sabbath

This thread has sooo many turns and backflips... I think I will pass. I prefer Bible teaching.. straight up.

In Matt 7 we have this from Christ "by their fruits you shall know them" -- it is a pretty good rule in general. I find it to be instructive.
 
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Bob S

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from time to time I see someone "quote themselves" then blame someone else for it. It happens more than one might think.



curious-er and curious-er



This thread has sooo many turns and backflips... I think I will pass. I prefer Bible teaching.. straight up.

In Matt 7 we have this from Christ "by their fruits you shall know them" -- it is a pretty good rule in general. I find it to be instructive.
If I were you I would pass too because the SDA belief system concerning Sabbath in Heaven and Jesus counting heads for 175 years is so ridiculous I would avoid it too, but that is what you are supposed to believe. That is the reason I am posting this to get across to those who, without any thought, buy into false dogma. And also to inform those thinking about becoming SDA Sabbath observers of the false belief.

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep… Jn10:14
The Lord knoweth them that are His. 2Tim2:19
 
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eleos1954

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I certainly do not believe in the Investigative judgement. My beliefs come from the new covenant. Every post I make tells my beliefs. Hint, read the green part at the bottom of every post.

The OP is not about what I believe, it is about Jesus keeping the Sabbath while going over the books and for how many hours a week. According to SDAs Jesus has been at the investigative task for 175 years. SDAs tell us all of Heaven rests every seventh day. In John 5:16-17 Jesus said the following: 16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defence Jesus said to them, ‘My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.’



I found what you said in the narrative of your OP disrespectful in regard to our Lord and His Sabbath ... He did create it for man and also states He is Lord over it. Perhaps that does not mean anything to you .. ok fine.

The OP is not about what I believe

Perhaps a better approach would be to actually post what you do believe and referencing scriptures of point rather than statements made with a snarky manner.

Are not SDA's our brothers and sisters in Christ? Are not all who believe in Jesus our brothers and sisters?

Is your narrative in the OP how we are to treat/speak to one another?

Poor Jesus for 175 years has been assigned the mundane duty of collecting the faithful's names. He made Heaven and Earth and all that is in six days, yet He has been cooped up in some room for all those years doing the same old thing it would seem He could have done in a twinkling of an eye. He, in 1844, went into a room, according to the SDA supreme authority, and when His assignment is completed will then be able to come back to Earth and take those faithful home. Does Jesus take any time off? It would seem like He would be very anxious to come back to Earth and stop all the havoc. If He does take the Sabbath off I wonder what time zone does he use to start His day off? What about the new moon days that the supreme authority forgot to keep and all of the flock has never corrected? Isaiah 58 Then there is the question about how long Sabbath is in Heaven because the SDA supreme authority tells us Heaven observes the Sabbath too. If all of Heaven stops to observe the Sabbath with all the Sabbath observers on Earth and it takes forty eight hours to complete the cycle here on Earth, is Sabbath in Heaven forty eight hours long? It just seems like it is taking a long time to get the investigation completed.

Jesus IS our High Priest and IS in the Holy Place in heaven and IS ministering on our behalf and ... He is always to be held in and referred to with the highest reverence and always honored.

Romans 12:10

Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor.

1 Timothy 4:12

Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.

Colossians 3:12

Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.

Ephesians 4:32

Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

Matthew 22:39

And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

So in regard to the title of your OP

If one keeps the 7th day Sabbath of our Lord out of love and respect for Him, following in His steps .... and encourages others to do the same, what exactly is the problem with that?
 
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Bob S

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If one keeps the 7th day Sabbath of our Lord out of love and respect for Him, following in His steps .... and encourages others to do the same, what exactly is the problem with that?

Are not SDA's our brothers and sisters in Christ? Are not all who believe in Jesus our brothers and sisters?

Muslims, Buddhists, atheists and all others are our brothers and sisters. Do you support all of them in what they believe? SDAs believe if you don't keep the Sabbath you will lose your eternal inheritance. Do you support that belief? Do you believe Jesus has been sorting out the faithful for 175 years?

I admit I should have qualified my statement with the following: SDAs have poor Jesus in a room for the last 175 years assigned the mundane duty of collecting the faithful's names from the records.

Is your narrative in the OP how we are to treat/speak to one another?
This is a debate forum my friend. My OP is not directed to any individual. It is questioning a belief system.

As to how to treat others, maybe you should read your post to me back to yourself. I find it a bit "snarky". Instead of putting my posts down with hollow opinions, why not present something in defense in place of all the empty rhetoric.
 
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BobRyan

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from time to time I see someone "quote themselves" then blame someone else for it. It happens more than one might think.


curious-er and curious-er


This thread has sooo many turns and backflips... I think I will pass. I prefer Bible teaching.. straight up.

In Matt 7 we have this from Christ "by their fruits you shall know them" -- it is a pretty good rule in general. I find it to be instructive.


If I were you I would pass

Just stopped by to see if the thread was still stuck
 
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Dare 2 B A Daniel

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In simple language, the investigative judgment is a process whereby Christ verifies to the onlooking, unfallen universe (symbolized by the embroidery of the angelic host upon the walls of the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary) that those who have perfected their characters (not their sinful flesh) by truly accepting Him as Lord and Savior (determined by an evaluation that will be plainly understood by all, as demonstrated by Him Who knows and sees all), after having been given glorified minds and bodies and also having the awareness of what the first rebellion cost the Son of God as born by the everlasting witness of His scars of the wounds for our transgressions, shall never allow rebellion to arise a second time. This is the edge that it was impossible for Lucifer and Adam and Eve to have.

The plan of redemption is a thorough quarantine and salvage operation, perfectly disposing of the problem of sin and evil.
 
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In simple language, the investigative judgment is a process whereby Christ verifies to the onlooking, unfallen universe
175 years and still counting? Could it be that Hiram Edson and the little flock was just as wrong as was Wm Miller, especially when we have scripture telling us directly from the Savior Himself: "I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep" Jn10:14. Jesus already knows, so why would He have to spend all those years doing what He already knows? 2Tim2:19 verifies that Jesus knows who are going to be with Him in Heaven. "The Lord knoweth them that are His."

(symbolized by the embroidery of the angelic host upon the walls of the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary) that those who have perfected their characters (not their sinful flesh) by truly accepting Him as Lord and Savior (determined by an evaluation that will be plainly understood by all, as demonstrated by Him Who knows and sees all), after having been given glorified minds and bodies and also having the awareness of what the first rebellion cost the Son of God as born by the everlasting witness of His scars of the wounds for our transgressions, shall never allow rebellion to arise a second time. This is the edge that it was impossible for Lucifer and Adam and Eve to have.
Wow, one long sentence and no scripture to back any of it up.

The plan of redemption is a thorough quarantine and salvage operation, perfectly disposing of the problem of sin and evil.
The plan of redemption was planned before the foundation of the Earth. It was very illogical that Jesus would wait until October 22, 1844 to start the separation. God is omnipotent, another reason Jesus is not serving His time counting heads.

The following is cut and pasted from Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Investigative Judgment
"And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. (Matt. 8:11) Jesus did not need an Investigative Judgment to determine the cases of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, so why does He need one to determine our destiny?Enoch: Adventists claim that Enoch was taken to heaven (Gen. 5:24). How did God know Enoch could be taken to heaven without an investigation?Moses: Adventists claim that after Moses sinned and died he was resurrected and taken to heaven (Jude 9). If everyone's sins are not blotted out until after the investigative judgment, then how could Moses enter heaven?Elijah: The Bible says that "Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven" (1 Kings 2:11). How could God take Elijah before the Investigative Judgement was completed?

7. When did Christ enter the Holiest? Seventh-day Adventists teach that Jesus entered two times into the Most Holy Place of the heavenly sanctuary--once at His ascension, and once again in 1844 at the beginning of the aypical Day of Atonement. The Bible truth is that Christ entered only once:

But by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. (Hebrews 9:12)But this man {Christ}, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God. (Hebrews 10:12)"
 
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Dare 2 B A Daniel

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175 years and still counting? Could it be that Hiram Edson and the little flock was just as wrong as was Wm Miller, especially when we have scripture telling us directly from the Savior Himself: "I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep" Jn10:14. Jesus already knows, so why would He have to spend all those years doing what He already knows? 2Tim2:19 verifies that Jesus knows who are going to be with Him in Heaven. "The Lord knoweth them that are His."
How could you have been a practicing Adventist for 40 years and never heard that the investigative judgment is not for the benefit of Christ but, as I clearly stated, "for the onlooking, unfallen universe," for whom the plan of redemption and the disposition of sin is largely devised to safeguard and protect?

By the way, wouldn't 175 years of "head-counting" be nothing compared to what He suffered on the cross?

This is what happens when the enormity of God's love is reduced to a shallow, humanistic interpretation of John 15:12.
 
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BobRyan

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Jesus did not need an Investigative Judgment to determine the cases of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, so why does He need one to determine our destiny?

How could you have been a practicing Adventist for 40 years and never heard that the investigative judgment is not for the benefit of Christ but, as I clearly stated, "for the onlooking, unfallen universe," for whom the plan of redemption and the disposition of sin is largely devised to safeguard and protect?

Amen! we call that "free will" where intelligent beings are benefited by compelling evidence.

BTW notice how "not even a Sabbath topic" this thread is adopting? They show that the issue is in fact "free will" but stick "the Sabbath" in the title "anyway"
 
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Wow, one long sentence and no scripture to back any of it up.
I thought Scripture was optional, what with entire chapters (e.g. Isaiah 65 and 66) having been discarded as nonsense.
The plan of redemption was planned before the foundation of the Earth. It was very illogical that Jesus would wait until October 22, 1844 to start the separation. God is omnipotent, another reason Jesus is not serving His time counting heads.
All patently irrelevant and unrelated to the purpose and validity of the investigative judgment.
Seventh-day Adventists teach that Jesus entered two times into the Most Holy Place of the heavenly sanctuary--once at His ascension, and once again in 1844 at the beginning of the aypical Day of Atonement.
More scandalous misinformation. Absolute nonsense.
 
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