Heaven and Earth passing away - what does this mean?

mkgal1

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Those who were celebrating Pentecost were outside. These included native Jews and foreign visitors.

The apostles were in a house.
Acts 2 explains the events that took place on Pentecost - 50 days after Christ's resurrection. At least 3000 people heard Peter's sermon (so, whether the original 120 present were indoors or out, they weren't isolated):

Luke 24:53 ~ And they were continually in the temple complex praising God

Acts 2:14 ~ But Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice, and proclaimed to them: "Men of Judah and all you residents of Jerusalem, let me explain this to you and pay attention to my words.

Acts 2:36 ~ Therefore let all the house of Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.

Acts 2:40-41 ~ And with many other words he testified and strongly urged them, saying, "Be saved from this corrupt generation!" So those who accepted his message were baptized and 3000 were added to the church that day.
 
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Messenger 3k

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so, whether the original 120 present were indoors or out, they weren't isolated

And they were continually in the temple complex praising God


Of course they weren't isolated. Scripture makes it clear that people were drawn to the house by the sound of the "mighty rushing wind" and the noise of people speaking in tongues they could understand.

Acts 2:5-6,

Now dwelling in Jerusalem were Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. When this sound occurred, the crowd came together and were confounded, because each man heard them speaking in his own language. (MEV)

Note at "dwelling" in the above, meaning residing.

Then in Acts 2:9-11,

Parthians, Medes and Elamites, residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the regions of Libya near Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own languages the mighty works of God.” (MEV)

Now Acts 2:41,

Then those who gladly received his word were baptized, and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. (MEV)

Over three thousand people residing in the temple complex?

I rest my case.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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mkgal1 said:
There is specific timing for the Feast days.The Cross was the fulfillment of the Feast of Passover."In Leviticus 27:34 the last verse in the book says this “These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.”
Galatians 4 and Revelation 8:8
Stop recycling lengthy posts that say nothing but include scriptures jumbled without clear understanding of what they mean.
And no one pours new wine (the Holy Spirit) into old wineskins (old heart/spirit). Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins (renewed heart/spirit from being saved)." (NIV)

I bet you didn't know that.
But I'm the one who's arguing off target.
Wine........repent!

Faith, Mountain, and Sea Matt 21:21/Mark 11:3
Faith, mountain and sea.


3501. neos neh'-os including the comparative neoteros neh-o'-ter-os; a primary word; "new", i.e. (of persons) youthful, or (of things) fresh; figuratively, regenerate:--new, young.
2537. kainos kahee-nos' of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while 3501 is properly so with respect to age:--new.

Luke 5:37
"And no one is casting young/neon <3501> wine into Old<3820> skins, if yet no surely shall be ruined the young wine of the skins,and it shall be being poured-out and its skin shall be perishing.
38 but young wine into New/kainouV <2537> skins is to be cast and both are preserved together.
39 And no one drinking Old immediately is willing young, for he is saying, 'for the the Old is kind/mellow'".

Matthew 9:17
“Neither are they casting young wine into Old wineskins if yet no surely the wineskins are bursting and the wine is being poured out and the wineskins are perishing. But they are casting young wine into New wineskins and both are preserved together.
================================
Hebrews 8:13 in the to be saying `New/kainhn <2537>,' He hath made old/pepalaiwken <3822> (5758) the first. The yet being aged/palaioumenon <3822> (5746) and being obsolete/ghraskon <1095> (5723) nigh of disappearance
Hebrews 12:18 Revelation 8:8 70AD..........

Hebrews 12:18 For you have not come to a mountain that might be touched, and that burned with fire, and to blackness, darkness, storm,

Revelation 8:8 And the second messenger trumpet, and as it were a great Mountain with fire burning was cast into the Sea, and the third of the sea became blood,
 
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Messenger 3k

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Galatians 4 and Revelation 8:8
Wine........repent!

Faith, Mountain, and Sea Matt 21:21/Mark 11:3
Faith, mountain and sea.


3501. neos neh'-os including the comparative neoteros neh-o'-ter-os; a primary word; "new", i.e. (of persons) youthful, or (of things) fresh; figuratively, regenerate:--new, young.
2537. kainos kahee-nos' of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while 3501 is properly so with respect to age:--new.

Luke 5:37
"And no one is casting young/neon <3501> wine into Old<3820> skins, if yet no surely shall be ruined the young wine of the skins,and it shall be being poured-out and its skin shall be perishing.
38 but young wine into New/kainouV <2537> skins is to be cast and both are preserved together.
39 And no one drinking Old immediately is willing young, for he is saying, 'for the the Old is kind/mellow'".

Matthew 9:17
“Neither are they casting young wine into Old wineskins if yet no surely the wineskins are bursting and the wine is being poured out and the wineskins are perishing. But they are casting young wine into New wineskins and both are preserved together.
================================
Hebrews 8:13 in the to be saying `New/kainhn <2537>,' He hath made old/pepalaiwken <3822> (5758) the first. The yet being aged/palaioumenon <3822> (5746) and being obsolete/ghraskon <1095> (5723) nigh of disappearance
Hebrews 12:18 Revelation 8:8 70AD..........

Hebrews 12:18 For you have not come to a mountain that might be touched, and that burned with fire, and to blackness, darkness, storm,

Revelation 8:8 And the second messenger trumpet, and as it were a great Mountain with fire burning was cast into the Sea, and the third of the sea became blood,

Meaning?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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mkgal1

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Of course they weren't isolated. Scripture makes it clear that people were drawn to the house by the sound of the "mighty rushing wind" and the noise of people speaking in tongues they could understand.

Acts 2:5-6,

Now dwelling in Jerusalem were Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. When this sound occurred, the crowd came together and were confounded, because each man heard them speaking in his own language. (MEV)

Note at "dwelling" in the above, meaning residing.

Then in Acts 2:9-11,

Parthians, Medes and Elamites, residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the regions of Libya near Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own languages the mighty works of God.” (MEV)

Now Acts 2:41,

Then those who gladly received his word were baptized, and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. (MEV)

Over three thousand people residing in the temple complex?

I rest my case.
Rest your case against what? Are you arguing against this?
Acts 2 explains the events that took place on Pentecost - 50 days after Christ's resurrection. At least 3000 people heard Peter's sermon (so, whether the original 120 present were indoors or out, they weren't isolated):

Luke 24:53 ~ And they were continually in the temple complex praising God
 
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bmjackson

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To me, it is referring to the point when a man becomes a new creation in Christ, when the old nature has been crucified and man has been restored to the creature he was meant to be, holy, and without sin. He no longer sees things as he did in the past, all things have changed, and as George Fox said, creation has a new smell. Heaven and earth as he knew them, have gone, and he now is in a new heaven and earth.

This is not the time when he first comes to Christ but when he has been through many trials.
 
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Are you arguing against this?

Arguing against what exactly?

I'm not arguing against scripture if that's what you're implying.

Scripture doesn't say they resided in the temple complex; it points otherwise. And that's a fact, not an argument.
 
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mkgal1

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Arguing against what exactly?

I'm not arguing against scripture if that's what you're implying.

Scripture doesn't say they resided in the temple complex; it points otherwise. And that's a fact, not an argument.
I never made the claim that the 120 followers of Christ were residing in the Temple complex. They were waiting for ten days in Jerusalem (a walled city) as Jesus had instructed them - and I quoted Luke's gospel that refers to them being "continually in the Temple complex praising God".

Earlier, you seemed to be making the argument that Jesus' followers were holed up alone in a house - separated from all the others in Jerusalem (but then when I pointed out that wasn't the case - that Peter had given his sermon to over 3,000 people that day, you agreed, but made it seem as if you were then informing me of that).

At this point, I don't even know what your assertions are.
 
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Messenger 3k

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I never made the claim that the 120 followers of Christ were residing in the Temple complex.


Am I misunderstanding this? :handpointdown:

Most likely - the upper room mentioned (in Acts 1:13) that the apostles were in was part of the Temple complex.
 
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ewq1938

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Luk 22:10 And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
Luk 22:11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
Luk 22:12 And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.

This is likely the same upper room mentioned in Acts and it is clearly just a house not the temple. The disciples were considered heretics so they wouldn't have been allowed a private room in the temple complex.

G3614
οἰκία
oikia
oy-kee'-ah
From G3624; properly residence (abstractly), but usually (concretely) an abode (literally or figuratively); by implication a family (especially domestics): - home, house (-hold).
Total KJV occurrences: 95
 
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mkgal1

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Am I misunderstanding this? :handpointdown:
Yes, because I wasn't suggesting they were residing in the Temple (if that's what you were understanding).

I did some research and this is what I found about the Upper room (the image got cut off - but the Upper Room is shown at the southern most part of the image by Caiaphas's home):

safe_image.php


Quoting Franciscan Media:
The Upper Room, also known as the Cenacle, is located in the southern part of the Old City of Jerusalem on Mount Zion, and is perhaps best known as the traditional site of the Last Supper. The current structure of the room dates approximately from the fourteenth century, which accounts for the existing Gothic-era columns.

According to tradition, this is where the apostles stayed when they were in Jerusalem. It is where the Last Supper took place. The Cenacle is where Jesus washed his disciples’ feet (John 13:1–20), which symbolizes the ministry of loving service. It is where the concept of a loving friendship with Jesus was introduced, as set forth in John’s Last Supper discourses (John 14—16), and gave the apostles a glimpse into the beautiful prayer life of Jesus, sometimes known as the “high priestly prayer,” recorded in John 17. It is the place where the disciples gathered in fear after the death of Jesus and prayed, with Mary, for the coming of the Holy Spirit (John 20:19–23).

By tradition, this is the same room where Jesus appeared, both before and after the resurrection. It was here that the Risen One made visible his wounds to see and touch, and the room where the faith of Thomas emerged. It is where the Risen Lord breathed on them the Holy Spirit “on the evening of that first day of the week” (John 20:19). It is where tongues of fire appeared to them on Pentecost and “they were all filled with the holy Spirit” (Acts 2:4). That event marks the birthday of the Church in the presence of our Blessed Mother (Acts 1:14). It is from there that the apostles went forth with boldness sharing the Good News. ~ The Upper Room in Jerusalem: The Most Important Room in Christendom



Cenacle (from Latin cēnāculum "dining room", later spelt coenaculum), also known as the "Upper Room" (from Koine Greek anagaion and hyperōion, both meaning "upper room") was the first Christian church. It is a room in the David's Tomb Compound in Jerusalem, and was traditionally held to be the site of the Last Supper. - Wiki


Ellicott's commentary on Luke 24:53 ~ (53) And were continually in the temple.—The statement is obviously not inconsistent with that in the Acts (Acts 1:13), that they were abiding in an upper-chamber in Jerusalem. What it indicates is, that their days were spent, not in the routine of common life, but in the prayer of fervent expectation; and for this no place was so fitting as the Temple, which their Master had taught them to look on as in very deed His “Father’s house,” the “house of prayer,” in which the soul of the true worshipper could find access to its God (Luke 20:46; John 2:16). There, too, we must remember all the memories of the precious days that had preceded the Passion would be with them in their fullest intensity. We find the same pattern of life presented in Acts 3:1.


Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
53. were continually in the temple—that is, every day at the regular hours of prayer till the day of Pentecost.


Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And were continually in the temple,.... At the time of worship, at the hours of prayer, or of public service; and perhaps always privately in an upper room in it, where they, with others, met frequently, and continued, with one accord, in prayer and supplication.
 
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mkgal1

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And why then did you bring this up? :handpointdown:

I posted that in response to your post, where you wrote this:

Messenger3k said:
Who says they celebrated Pentecost?

Do you not realize that those who received the Holy Spirit were the ones who were not celebrating Pentecost?

Those who were celebrating Pentecost were outside. These included native Jews and foreign visitors.

The apostles were in a house.


......and I was trying to point out what was written in Luke 24:53 and Acts 1:13. Ellicott's commentary seems to make the best sense of that (along with apostolic tradition that the 120 were in the Upper Room until Pentecost and attended the Temple for the regular hours of prayer).

 
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mkgal1

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Lol. This is getting funnier.

I never argued against that scripture, so why point it out?
From what I can tell - your argument was that the 120 followers of Christ were not "celebrating Pentecost". But it's not about "celebrating the Feasts" - God was *fulfilling* the Feasts (just as He fulfilled Passover on the cross, for another example). There is timing involved - Pentecost is 50 days after Passover. Jesus spent 40 days with His followers and then instructed them to go into Jerusalem and wait for the gift the Father had promised. They were waiting 10 days - and on the 50th day (Pentecost) God fulfilled His promise - but you seem to be suggesting ALL was fulfilled on the cross. Then I asked "what about Pentecost?" You seem to be denying this as any sort of fulfillment of the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost (since you've stated ALL was fulfilled at the cross):

Acts 1:3-5: After His suffering, He presented Himself to them with many convincing proofs that He was alive. He appeared to them over a span of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 2:1-4: When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like a mighty rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw tongues like flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

 
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From what I can tell - your argument was that the 120 followers of Christ were not "celebrating Pentecost". But it's not about "celebrating the Feasts" - God was *fulfilling* the Feasts (just as He fulfilled Passover on the cross, for another example). There is timing involved - Pentecost is 50 days after Passover. Jesus spent 40 days with His followers and then instructed them to go into Jerusalem and wait for the gift the Father had promised. They were waiting 10 days - and on the 50th day (Pentecost) God fulfilled His promise - but you seem to be suggesting ALL was fulfilled on the cross. Then I asked "what about Pentecost?" You seem to be denying this as any sort of fulfillment of the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost (since you've stated ALL was fulfilled at the cross):

Acts 1:3-5: After His suffering, He presented Himself to them with many convincing proofs that He was alive. He appeared to them over a span of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 2:1-4: When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like a mighty rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw tongues like flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.


Lol. Okay.
 
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