Family Upset Brother Killed

Zoii said:

hmmm...dont think Ive heard of any mass killings in the UK with a knife, .

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Unfortunately if you did not count any of the gun homicides we still have a higher murder rate than the UK with other implements or bare hands. The guns deaths are on top of that.

As to a mass killing with a knife in the UK:

2017 London Bridge attack - Wikipedia

Though usually in countries without as many firearms they use other methods, such as bombs, cars, arson fire, etc.

Here are some other notable knife attacks in various countries.

Sogan colliery attack
At least 50 reported to have died in attack on coalmine in Xinjiang in September
Terrorism in China - Wikipedia
Deaths 50

Kunming attack
2014 Kunming attack - Wikipedia
Deaths 31
Injuries 43

Sagamihara stabbings
Sagamihara stabbings - Wikipedia
Deaths 19
Injuries 26

Nafang Market Rampage stabbings
Huang Guozhen - Wikipedia
Deaths 16
Injuries 2

Ruzhou Number Two High School Dorm attack
Yan Yanming - Wikipedia
Deaths 9
Injuries 3

Student Nurse Dormitory killings
Richard Speck - Wikipedia
Deaths 8

Osaka school massacre
Osaka school massacre - Wikipedia
Deaths 8
Injuries 15

Nanping school massacre
Nanping school massacre - Wikipedia
Deaths 8
Injuries 5

Hong Kong Anne Anne Kindergarten stabbings
Anne Anne Kindergarten stabbing - Wikipedia
Deaths 6
Injuries 38

Shimonoseki Station Massacre
Shimonoseki Station massacre - Wikipedia
Deaths 5
Injuries 10

Ana the Ist said:

The brother's reaction was understandable...

The sister's reaction was quite different though. She didn't appear shocked or upset that her brother was putting a gun in people's faces and stealing their money....she was upset that someone defended themselves from being victimized.

So if you want to look at root causes, perhaps you should consider the mentality of "it's ok to victimize people and wrong of them to defend themselves" and how someone acquires that mentality.

It seems to me that without that, the guns aren't a problem in this case.

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Root cause analysis will examine all issues, objectively and evidence based. It's not an emotional approach

tall73 said:

Unfortunately if you did not count any of the gun homicides we still have a higher murder rate than the UK with other implements or bare hands. The guns deaths are on top of that.

As to a mass killing with a knife in the UK:

2017 London Bridge attack - Wikipedia

Though usually in countries without as many firearms they use other methods, such as bombs, cars, arson fire, etc.

Here are some other notable knife attacks in various countries.

Sogan colliery attack
At least 50 reported to have died in attack on coalmine in Xinjiang in September
Terrorism in China - Wikipedia
Deaths 50

Kunming attack
2014 Kunming attack - Wikipedia
Deaths 31
Injuries 43

Sagamihara stabbings
Sagamihara stabbings - Wikipedia
Deaths 19
Injuries 26

Nafang Market Rampage stabbings
Huang Guozhen - Wikipedia
Deaths 16
Injuries 2

Ruzhou Number Two High School Dorm attack
Yan Yanming - Wikipedia
Deaths 9
Injuries 3

Student Nurse Dormitory killings
Richard Speck - Wikipedia
Deaths 8

Osaka school massacre
Osaka school massacre - Wikipedia
Deaths 8
Injuries 15

Nanping school massacre
Nanping school massacre - Wikipedia
Deaths 8
Injuries 5

Hong Kong Anne Anne Kindergarten stabbings
Anne Anne Kindergarten stabbing - Wikipedia
Deaths 6
Injuries 38

Shimonoseki Station Massacre
Shimonoseki Station massacre - Wikipedia
Deaths 5
Injuries 10

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You do realise you just proved my point right? You've clearly demonstrated the low number of mass incidences and outcomes when compared to firearms. Heck one incident in Los Vegas alone swamps all of that.

HannahT said:

Unfortunately, Zoii he may not have had the gun legally. The city I grew up by? To this day they still have major issues with illegal guns, and the person that robbed the store? If I may generalize here for a moment - tend to be the ones that use them, because they can dispose of the evidence. They use them for revenge for gang members also - disposable illegal guns.

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My point was, many, so I'm informed here on CF, can legally obtain their weapons, and that right is vigouressly supported

Ana the Ist said:

Then it's not examining "all" issues. You have evidence in the video and frankly, it's less about "emotions" than it is perspective.

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Perspective, if it is of any value what so ever, should be objective and evidence-based. I'd of thought that self-evident - perhaps its not.

Ana the Ist said:

There's nothing truly remarkable about this incident...except the audacity of the family of the slain. His sister (?) literally acts like it's wrong to shoot someone who sticks a gun in your face and demands money. She has a really casual attitude towards armed robbers and a really antagonistic attitude towards people who defend themselves against armed robbers.

It makes one wonder how one's perspective becomes so backwards.

Thoughts?

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When (bad people) rob others they take a gamble that they may be shot to death. Some get what they deserve with no time for Repentance. A terrible situation to be in.

We reap what we sow.

M-Bob

Mountainmanbob said:

When (bad people) rob others they take a gamble that they may be shot to death. Some get what they deserve with no time for Repentance. A terrible situation to be in.

We reap what we sow.

M-Bob

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Unfortunately true Bob

HannahT said:

Why would you think or ask such a question? Everyone knows the answer to that. The sister's response to their sibling actually robbing the store? "OH WELL!" It would just crazy to think her attitude is the only answer to being robbed.

You are taking risk when you pull a robbery like this. You have no idea if the person you are trying to rob has a gun also.

If someone had to be killed this circumstance? I would hope it is the criminal, and not the innocent.

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Did you read the posts that led up to the post you replied to?

Darkhorse said:

"Once the bad guy initiated the robbery, this is the best of all possible outcomes"

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Darkhorse said:

"Once the bad guy initiated the robbery, this is the best of all possible outcomes".

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So the robber being killed was the best outcome?

tall73 said:

Unfortunately if you did not count any of the gun homicides we still have a higher murder rate than the UK with other implements or bare hands. The guns deaths are on top of that.

As to a mass killing with a knife in the UK:

2017 London Bridge attack - Wikipedia

Though usually in countries without as many firearms they use other methods, such as bombs, cars, arson fire, etc.

Here are some other notable knife attacks in various countries.

Sogan colliery attack
At least 50 reported to have died in attack on coalmine in Xinjiang in September
Terrorism in China - Wikipedia
Deaths 50

Kunming attack
2014 Kunming attack - Wikipedia
Deaths 31
Injuries 43

Sagamihara stabbings
Sagamihara stabbings - Wikipedia
Deaths 19
Injuries 26

Nafang Market Rampage stabbings
Huang Guozhen - Wikipedia
Deaths 16
Injuries 2

Ruzhou Number Two High School Dorm attack
Yan Yanming - Wikipedia
Deaths 9
Injuries 3

Student Nurse Dormitory killings
Richard Speck - Wikipedia
Deaths 8

Osaka school massacre
Osaka school massacre - Wikipedia
Deaths 8
Injuries 15

Nanping school massacre
Nanping school massacre - Wikipedia
Deaths 8
Injuries 5

Hong Kong Anne Anne Kindergarten stabbings
Anne Anne Kindergarten stabbing - Wikipedia
Deaths 6
Injuries 38

Shimonoseki Station Massacre
Shimonoseki Station massacre - Wikipedia
Deaths 5
Injuries 10

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That's like what....about 5 months worth in the us or so? At least in terms of mass events I'd not body count

rambot said:

That's like what....about 5 months worth in the us or so? At least in terms of mass events I'd not body count

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Agreed, although when you throw in bombings, arson attacks, vehicle attacks, etc. the numbers internationally per population start to get a little closer.

But we still stand out considerably when it comes to run of the mill murders, rather than mass killing events.

Larnievc said:

So the robber being killed was the best outcome?

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It was to me. But I'm not into people choosing to do arm robbery.

Zoii said:

You do realise you just proved my point right? You've clearly demonstrated the low number of mass incidences and outcomes when compared to firearms. Heck one incident in Los Vegas alone swamps all of that.

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Actually I noted that even if there was not a single gun in the United States we still would have more murders per capita in the US than in the UK. We have a violence problem.

Now as to knife attacks, you mentioned you were not aware of such knife attacks, so I posted them. I did not contend they occurred at the same frequency as US mass shootings.

However, mass shootings do happen at around the same rate per population in some European nations that ban guns. They tend to be better organized and be fewer, but more lethal. They generally are by groups of terrorists instead of lone wolf shooters here.

The UK has the advantage of being an island, which helps them keep out the guns and such. And historically they had a much lower level of gun ownership.

As to the Las vegas shooting, it had a lot of wounded, but 59 deaths. One of those mass stabbings had 50 deaths. And one of the stabbings, done by one person, had 19 deaths, which is far higher than most mass shootings in the US. Unfortunately knives are more deadly that most think. And the Nice truck attack killed 86 and injured over 400.

It comes down to planning. Luckily, most don't plan that well.


The larger disparity is in murders apart from mass killings.

Larnievc said:

So the robber being killed was the best outcome?

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As I have said before, the robber could have been wounded and fled the scene (he tried, but died on the way). He could have been scared away without being wounded. But what then? Would he have turned his life around and become a model citizen? Not very likely. Almost certainly, he would continue his armed robberies, and eventually killed someone.

So, his death, while unfortunate, is the result of his own illicit actions. Overall, best outcome.

Ana the Ist said:

Again, there's evidence. You saw the video.

Did the gun make him rob the store? If not, I think we can objectively exclude the gun from your analysis.

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I saw the video. Apparently a bullet from the gun killed him. What's confused you.

Now @mountainbob succinctly summed it up. He had it coming.

But a root cause analysis is a very stringent robust process. It's what your airline industry uses so don't mock it. It is the pinnacle of seriously addressing critical incidents with evidence based solutions that don't just skim onto trivial answers.

tall73 said:

Actually I noted that even if there was not a single gun in the United States we still would have more murders per capita in the US than in the UK. We have a violence problem.

Now as to knife attacks, you mentioned you were not aware of such knife attacks, so I posted them. I did not contend they occurred at the same frequency as US mass shootings.

However, mass shootings do happen at around the same rate per population in some European nations that ban guns. They tend to be better organized and be fewer, but more lethal. They generally are by groups of terrorists instead of lone wolf shooters here.

The UK has the advantage of being an island, which helps them keep out the guns and such. And historically they had a much lower level of gun ownership.

As to the Las vegas shooting, it had a lot of wounded, but 59 deaths. One of those mass stabbings had 50 deaths. And one of the stabbings, done by one person, had 19 deaths, which is far higher than most mass shootings in the US. Unfortunately knives are more deadly that most think. And the Nice truck attack killed 86 and injured over 400.

It comes down to planning. Luckily, most don't plan that well.


The larger disparity is in murders apart from mass killings.

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Heck. For some reason you feel comfortable with your answer. That's fine. I suggest you google the number of gun deaths per year and I'll leave further discussion.

You know... Its quite OK to say, your country wants to stick with guns. It's your country. You don't have to justify anything by making arguments like... Knives cause mass murders and Los Vegas wasn't that bad. Just... Nevermind. It's a disappointing answer.

Ana the Ist said:

During an armed robbery...

Ohio clerk pulls out own gun and shoots armed robber dead

There's nothing truly remarkable about this incident...except the audacity of the family of the slain. His sister (?) literally acts like it's wrong to shoot someone who sticks a gun in your face and demands money. She has a really casual attitude towards armed robbers and a really antagonistic attitude towards people who defend themselves against armed robbers.

It makes one wonder how one's perspective becomes so backwards.

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this is not so remarkable in human society.

Frequently, there will be some family members of societal criminals ... who will voice that their relative was treated (or will be treated) unjustly.

Such accounts are not hard to find ...

Texas man targeted by a hitman fights for the life of the person who ordered the murder – his son

Zoii said:

Heck. For some reason you feel comfortable with your answer. That's fine. I suggest you google the number of gun deaths per year and I'll leave further discussion.

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I already indicated we have more gun deaths, and more deaths in general, even before you include guns. It is a reality, not a good thing. But we have a much more violent society per capita than the UK, or Australia, etc.

You know... Its quite OK to say, your country wants to stick with guns. It's your country. You don't have to justify anything by making arguments like... Knives cause mass murders and Los Vegas wasn't that bad.

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I am not saying our country wants to, though some do, some don't. I am saying we may not have a lot of options. there are hundreds of millions of guns in the US, and many in the region. We are not an island. Even in Europe you see guns being trafficked from the Balkans by terrorist groups, gangs, etc. Our situation would be far worse. There are tons of guns for criminals and terrorists to get their hands on.

Now no one said Las Vegas was not bad. You used Las Vegas in an attempt to downplay knife numbers. But the knife numbers were bad as well.

Just... Nevermind. It's a disappointing answer.

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It was answering your question about mass murder with knives in the UK.
You may not care for the answer, but it was answering the issue you raised.