LDS Is Jesus White?

mmksparbud · Nov 2, 2019

He is the way said:
I know that "neither the Hebrew, not Aramaic nor Greek have punctuation, capitalization is rare and there were no verses and chapters." in the original manuscripts. However I believe that both Paradise and Hell are in the spirit world where the spirits are. Paradise is NOT heaven as many people believe. God does not live in Paradise, therefore Jesus went to the spirit world and preached to the spirits in spirit prison which had lived on earth, but had not received the gospel. That is why we have this scripture:

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:5 - 6)

5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

And also this scripture:

(New Testament | 1 Peter 3:19 - 20)

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

These spirits have not been resurrected (spirit and body reunited) yet and are still waiting on the judgement and resurrection.

Although we have forgotten our pre-mortal existence, it is evident that we had one because it is not possible for our spirit person to return to a place it has never been.:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:7)

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Jesus Christ's spirit may have returned to God after His death as He said:

(New Testament | Luke 23:46)

46 ¶ And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

That being said He had not returned to His Father in His resurrected body when He said:

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Just so you know that there are other ways to understand the Bible.

Yes, there are other way to understand the bible, God's way, JS's way and you will consistently pick JS
no matter what the bible or even the dictionaries say. He has his own dictionary which has nothing to do with the original Hebrew, Aramaic, nor Greek.

He is the way · Nov 2, 2019

mmksparbud said:
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

He was talking about when Noah was preaching to the disobedient while building the ark.

Who were the spirit persons in prison? Had they lived on earth or were they yet to be born?

mmksparbud · Nov 2, 2019

He is the way said:
Who were the spirit persons in prison? Had they lived on earth or were they yet to be born?

He was referring to the disobedient in the Days of Noah. This is the verse just before this:
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
The disobedient in the days of Noah were in the prison of unbelieve---and they would die in their prison. The word spirit also means people. Not that you're going to believe that for you have to twist to suit the understanding of JS.

He is the way · Nov 2, 2019

mmksparbud said:
He was referring to the disobedient in the Days of Noah. This is the verse just before this:
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
The disobedient in the days of Noah were in the prison of unbelieve---and they would die in their prison. The word spirit also means people. Not that you're going to believe that for you have to twist to suit the understanding of JS.

So do you then believe that between death and the resurrection we exist as spirit persons and can therefore be taught the gospel?

S.O.J.I.A. · Nov 2, 2019

i'd like to know what biblical data the LDS church has produced to have any picture of Jesus regardless of the color?

how does anyone know what our Lord looked like?

Peter1000 · Nov 2, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Up to a point---:
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Yes, you will have works---but they do not save you--they are the end product of salvation. They follow naturally from a changed heart that loves God and all that God has created. You can not make up a list of "works to be saved by"---The works that follow will be those that the changed heart will do and that the Holy Spirit will lead you to do. God alone can judge the heart.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You can do all sorts of wonderful works, but when done with the unchanged heart, will mean nothing in the eyes of God. In other words, Mother Theresa's many acts of kindness and self denial are wonderful, but if she did them in order to be saved, without any real love for God or man--they mean nothing to God and He alone will know.

The same goes for keeping the commandments. If not done out of a changed heart that loves God and man---they add up to nothing. God is not interested in those who look good on the outside, but only in what is going on in the heart. There is nothing else in this world that can save you but a heartfelt relationship with God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and if you do not know the real ones----you do not know and worship the real God and that will get you nowhere also. Like I said---even the rocks can keep the commandments!

Why must you insist that my good works are done with an unchanged heart?

Why must you insist that my good works are done for personal gain and somehow earn me a place in heaven?

I love the Lord as much as you do. I work for him out of love because he loved me first, and now I want to return my love to him. Is that OK?

He is the way · Nov 2, 2019

THE W said:
i'd like to know what biblical data the LDS church has produced to have any picture of Jesus regardless of the color?

how does anyone know what our Lord looked like?

Before His birth we have this:

(Old Testament | Ezekiel 1:26 - 28)

26 ¶ And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.
28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

Scholars have pictured what they believed Jesus Christ may have looked like during His mortal life and there are images of the shroud of Turin that may or may not be of Jesus. Joseph Smith's description was of the resurrected Jesus Christ and not that of His mortal life.

S.O.J.I.A. · Nov 2, 2019

He is the way said:
Before His birth we have this:

(Old Testament | Ezekiel 1:26 - 28)

26 ¶ And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.
28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

Scholars have pictured what they believed Jesus Christ may have looked like during His mortal life and there are images of the shroud of Turin that may or may not be of Jesus. Joseph Smith's description was of the resurrected Jesus Christ and not that of His mortal life.

….guesswork?

Peter1000 · Nov 2, 2019

THE W said:
i'd like to know what biblical data the LDS church has produced to have any picture of Jesus regardless of the color?

how does anyone know what our Lord looked like?

Our pictures of Jesus are all on the whiter side of middle eastern skin color. I am not sure if that matters. I would be as happy to follow Jesus if we thought his skin color to be darker. I do not think Jesus was as dark as African black people's skin is. And if we came to find out that his skin is of a black hue, I would worship him just the same.

The Church of Jesus Christ has had an amazing success in Africa. In the last 10 years, 10 full functioning temples have been built, and I believe there are 3 more in the works now.
Hundreds of thousands of Africans are joining the church and will lead to millions of people
in the future.

People of darker skin colors are joining the church today faster than people with whiter skin colors. I don't know why that matters, but that is true. Africa and S. America are the 2 fastest growing areas in the church today. I am happy to accept these people into the church and look forward to many of them becoming important people in the administration of the church worldwide.

He is the way · Nov 2, 2019

THE W said:
….guesswork?

Forensic archaeologists have used historical evidence to determine what Jesus might have looked like.

mmksparbud · Nov 2, 2019

He is the way said:
So do you then believe that between death and the resurrection we exist as spirit persons and can therefore be taught the gospel?

NO!!

Ecc_9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Dead is dead. There is no 2nd chance after death.

Peter1000 · Nov 2, 2019

mmksparbud said:
It does to me. When dealing with angels claiming to have a message from God---you better believe they are to be tested. That is what scripture says. Even Gideon tested God to make sure the message was truly from God. Sorry, but shaking hands is ridiculous. You test them by what they say---if it goes contrary to the word of God---they are not of God and Moroni is not of God. First sign was that he said the word of God was corrupted and that is blatantly false. JS should have walked away right then and there. Once you get rid of the word of God, anything can be introduced (and was). There really was no reason to hear one more word from this Moroni after he said that.

I just read again the visit of the angel Moroni to JS. Moroni did not say that the word of God was corrupted. He said nothing of the kind. You made that up to fill in your agenda that Moroni could not be an angel of God because he said that the word of God was corrupted. Please, at least get his words right, before you tell other people what Moroni did not say. Thank you.

dzheremi · Nov 2, 2019

He is the way said:
The Book of Mormon is true and is the word of God. It is another testament of Jesus Christ. It was written just as Martin Harris described and the plates were witnessed by eleven people. However it should be known that the Book of Mormon was written on the plates by men, not God Himself. People choose to believe whatever they decide is true. Sadly there were people who believed that Jesus Christ was a deceiver and they wanted Him dead. I believe the gospel is about LOVE, not hate. It is hatred that killed Jesus Christ and the prophets of God. There are people who do not want to keep the commandments of LOVE because they love sin. Glory be to God and to His only begotten Son Jesus Christ.

Gee...you don't seem to want to talk about how a person "could write a 532 page book in the king's English in 65 days without numerous grammatical mistakes to the king's English" anymore. I wonder why? ^_^

What happened to JS' translation being a miracle that is impossible without the help of God? You know, the thing that you were asserting before this complete about face into more light, airy, feel-good piffle about "LOVE"?

(Something which nobody else was talking about. Whether or not JS actually translated anything and whether or not his book is what Mormons claim it to be has absolutely nothing to do with the presence or absence of love. Er, excuse me, LOVE.)

He is the way · Nov 2, 2019

mmksparbud said:
NO!!

Ecc_9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Dead is dead. There is no 2nd chance after death.

This scripture is about the body, not the spirit. The spirit person returns to God after death and the gospel is taught to the spirits of the dead so they can be judged according to men in the flesh.

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:6)

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

mmksparbud · Nov 2, 2019

Peter1000 said:
I just read again the visit of the angel Moroni to JS. Moroni did not say that the word of God was corrupted. He said nothing of the kind. You made that up to fill in your agenda that Moroni could not be an angel of God because he said that the word of God was corrupted. Please, at least get his words right, before you tell other people what Moroni did not say. Thank you.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those bprofessors were all ccorrupt; that: “they ddraw near to me with their lips, but their ehearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the fcommandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the gpower thereof.”

OK--You are right---it was the professors that he said were corrupt and the creeds were an abomination.

It is the vision where Moroni quotes Malachi---with slight variation:

Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

38 And again, he quoted the fifth verse thus: Behold, I will reveal unto you the aPriesthood, by the hand of bElijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the cLord.

Satan also quoted the bible---to Christ no less. A real angel of God does not change the word of God. He added the Priesthood by the hand of Elijah. JS does not even question this. The Priesthood had ended and JS just accepts this new thing without question----sorry, but we just can't do that. With this one verse Moroni changed the whole thing and showed he was not of God. Degrading all the denominations and creeds is not the usual way of an angel saying things. In Rev. all the churches had a problem, except one, but Jesus didn't degrade them all, He did point out what was right with them also. But the biggest sign was the addition to Malachi that introduced the first definite sign he was not of God. Still---there is no indication in any of the versions of JS viusions that he ever tested the angel in any way.

mmksparbud · Nov 2, 2019

He is the way said:
This scripture is about the body, not the spirit. The spirit person returns to God after death and the gospel is taught to the spirits of the dead so they can be judged according to men in the flesh.

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:6)

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

It says nothing about this is only the body not the spirit. The other is plain---we are dead in our sins---but alive in Jesus.

He is the way · Nov 2, 2019

mmksparbud said:
It says nothing about this is only the body not the spirit. The other is plain---we are dead in our sins---but alive in Jesus.

We have two parts, the body and the spirit. The spirit does not die, the body does. The body returns to the earth, but not the spirit. Our spirit person returns to God where we were before being born. When the spirit person is away from the body, it is with the Lord. When the spirit person is in the body it is away from the Lord:

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 5:6 - 9)

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

He is the way · Nov 2, 2019

mmksparbud said:
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those bprofessors were all ccorrupt; that: “they ddraw near to me with their lips, but their ehearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the fcommandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the gpower thereof.”

OK--You are right---it was the professors that he said were corrupt and the creeds were an abomination.

It is the vision where Moroni quotes Malachi---with slight variation:

Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

38 And again, he quoted the fifth verse thus: Behold, I will reveal unto you the aPriesthood, by the hand of bElijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the cLord.

Satan also quoted the bible---to Christ no less. A real angel of God does not change the word of God. He added the Priesthood by the hand of Elijah. JS does not even question this. The Priesthood had ended and JS just accepts this new thing without question----sorry, but we just can't do that. With this one verse Moroni changed the whole thing and showed he was not of God. Degrading all the denominations and creeds is not the usual way of an angel saying things. In Rev. all the churches had a problem, except one, but Jesus didn't degrade them all, He did point out what was right with them also. But the biggest sign was the addition to Malachi that introduced the first definite sign he was not of God. Still---there is no indication in any of the versions of JS viusions that he ever tested the angel in any way.

He did REVEAL the priesthood by the hand of Elijah. That priesthood was used to bind families together forever.

mmksparbud · Nov 2, 2019

He is the way said:
We have two parts, the body and the spirit. The spirit does not die, the body does. The body returns to the earth, but not the spirit. Our spirit person returns to God where we were before being born. When the spirit person is away from the body, it is with the Lord. When the spirit person is in the body it is away from the Lord:

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 5:6 - 9)

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

There is no verse that says we have immortal spirit.

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

God alone is immortal. He gives the gift of immortality to the saved.

mmksparbud · Nov 2, 2019

He is the way said:
He did REVEAL the priesthood by the hand of Elijah. That priesthood was used to bind families together forever.

No, He did not. Moroni set up JS for that lie right with that supposed vision. God doesn't work with a group---we are individually saved. One spouse can be saved, the other not, one child saved, others not.

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