Was it really the spirit of Samuel that talked with King Saul or something else?

Bible Highlighter said:

I cannot type in voice inflections to let you know that I was speaking sarcastically (But yet in love). So when I said, "your version of the facts" I was trying to say that what you consider as facts is not entirely the truth (from my perspective or experience).

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Truth does not have perspectives and isn't bound by any individual's experience.

Bible Highlighter said:

I have talked with folks who have an almost viciousness to them when I talk about the KJV being the perfect Word of God.

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The KJV is not perfect, it is okay, and for its time it was fairly decent but it is a state sanctioned edition of the Protestant bible in English so it carries both a theological bias and a political bias.

Bible Highlighter said:

I disagree, friend. The trusty KJV (that existed hundreds of years long before a Modern Translation

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The Douay bible says:
It's older than the KJV.

Bible Highlighter said:

So then, what is the perfect Word of God for our day?

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In English? None is perfect. In Greek, probably the best is the Nestle Aland text. In Hebrew, not sure what would be best in Hebrew. The Masoretic text is flawed. The Greek LXX is a translation and not entirely reliable. The Dead Sea Scrolls do not have the entire canon of the old testament. So in which language do you expect to find a "perfect bible"?

GingerBeer said:

In English? None is perfect. In Greek, probably the best is the Nestle Arndt text. In Hebrew, not sure what would be best in Hebrew. The Masoretic text is flawed. The Greek LXX is a translation and not entirely reliable. The Dead Sea Scrolls do not have the entire canon of the old testament. So in which language do you expect to find a "perfect bible"?

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I really find this one for Hebrew an excellent source. My personal favorite for just reading is KJV, but I will consult every other translation when doing research.

The Torah: A Mechanical Translation

Bible Highlighter said:

Older does not mean better or more accurate.

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That is true. Thus the KJV has no special status because it comes from 1611 AD, nor any special status because it used the "received text" to which it was not especially faithful anyway. And even so the KJV still says that it was Samuel who spoke to Saul. Not a demon, nor some other kind of fake, but Samuel.

Bible Highlighter said:

If there is no perfect Word of God? How do you know which words are true and which words are in error?

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Oh that one is easy. All the words are human and all of them are subject to erroneous interpretation but if you stick to what the stories say without adding to them or taking away from them then you'll very likely know what the author intended to say and the confusion will end. Thus (I Samuel 28:15-19) "[15] Then Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up? Saul answered, I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do. [16] And Samuel said, Why then do you ask me, since the Lord has turned from you and become your enemy? [17] The Lord has done to you as he spoke by me, for the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbour, David. [18] Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord and did not carry out his fierce wrath against Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you this day. [19] Moreover, the Lord will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me. The Lord will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines."
Trust what is written above trusting your doctrine about the state of the dead and your theology about soul sleep. Then the confusion will end.

mmksparbud said:

I really find this one for Hebrew an excellent source. My personal favorite for just reading is KJV, but I will consult every other translation when doing research.
The Torah: A Mechanical Translation

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Most English language translations are useful and good. None are flawless. Using the RSV, NRSV, JB, NJB, NAB, and others is helpful. Sometimes even bad translations such as the NWT are useful. The GNB (aka TEV), Living Bible, The message, and others of that kind can be helpful too but mainly for less studious reading. Prayer books, the lives of saints and the lives of evangelists can be useful too but more as a way of understanding how scripture can change a person's way of living than for anything else.

All of the translations into English that I have readily at hand say it is Samuel who spoke to Saul. Not one of them says it was a fake, a demon in disguise. However the NWT, the translation created by the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of Jehovah's witnesses, does say:
But it is a notoriously bad translation and especially noted for its sectarian biases so when it encloses Samuel's name in quote marks it is because the translation committee of Jehovah's witnesses did so hoping to use this device to make their doctrine of soul sleep and annihilation "biblical". Others may have done similar things for similar reasons. Thus adding to the text of scripture to make their doctrine seem true when it is not true.

mmksparbud said:

No, it was not. Many perceive it that way, but not true. Sons of God are also men of God, esp. when contrasting them with those that are not followers of God. The bible always describes then Nephilim as men---not half-bred angels. Angels can not reproduce and Jesus declared that we will be like them after the resurrection.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Men of renown ---men of authority, men of great reputation--MEN. Ad for giants----yes, there were giants in those days, and after the flood---there is nothing in the bible about how tall Adam and Eve were. God crated perfection. They were not 5 ft. 6"--everything was bigger then. The oxygen canopy was higher concentration then. After the flood, the age of men, and their height was affected. But there remained pockets where there were those that retained some of the DNA of their ancestors. In Africa you have the Dinka, and Maasai, and the pigmy is the smallest---both men. It's called genetics.

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nephilim in the original language of the Bible means fallen ones. It does not mean giants.

Show me in the Bible where it says angels can not reproduce.

The scripture says it was Samuel.

GingerBeer said:

Most English language translations are useful and good. None are flawless. Using the RSV, NRSV, JB, NJB, NAB, and others is helpful. Sometimes even bad translations such as the NWT are useful. The GNB (aka TEV), Living Bible, The message, and others of that kind can be helpful too but mainly for less studious reading. Prayer books, the lives of saints and the lives of evangelists can be useful too but more as a way of understanding how scripture can change a person's way of living than for anything else.

All of the translations into English that I have readily at hand say it is Samuel who spoke to Saul. Not one of them says it was a fake, a demon in disguise. However the NWT, the translation created by the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of Jehovah's witnesses, does say:

1Samuel 28: 15 Then “Samuel” said to Saul: “Why have you disturbed me by having me brought up?” Saul replied: “I am in great trouble. The Phi·lisʹtines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me and no longer answers me, either through the prophets or in dreams;r so that is why I am calling on you to let me know what I should do.”s 16 And “Samuel” said: “Why do you inquire of me now that Jehovah has departed from yout and has become your adversary? 17 Jehovah will do for himself what he foretold through me: Jehovah will rip the kingdom out of your hands and give it to one of your fellow men, David.u 18 Because you did not obey the voice of Jehovah and you did not execute his burning anger against the A·malʹek·ites,v that is why Jehovah is doing this to you this day. 19 Jehovah will also give both Israel and you into the hand of the Phi·lisʹtines,w and tomorrow youx and your sons y will be with me. Jehovah will also give the army of Israel into the hands of the Phi·lisʹtines.”z​

But it is a notoriously bad translation and especially noted for its sectarian biases so when it encloses Samuel's name in quote marks it is because the translation committee of Jehovah's witnesses did so hoping to use this device to make their doctrine of soul sleep and annihilation "biblical". Others may have done similar things for similar reasons. Thus adding to the text of scripture to make their doctrine seem true when it is not true.

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There is nothing to say that will help you see the truth. The bible says she is a medium. It says we are not to talk to the dead, it says having a familiar spirit is punishable by death---yet most people will prefer to believe that it actually was Samuel, that an evil person was able to command to bring an actual righteous person, who died in the Lord, into their presence, rather than that it was the works of Satan. God would not speak to Saul neither directly, nor in dreams nor in visions not even through the Urim and Thummim----yet you think He would choose an evil person to allow to contact the dead Saul into her presence. Your choice. Satan doesn't have to work very hard to make some people believe in his power. That is why the last days deceptions, will be so easy for him. God bless you.

d taylor said:

nephilim in the original language of the Bible means fallen ones. It does not mean giants.

Show me in the Bible where it says angels can not reproduce.

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Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Every angel mentioned in the bible has a male name. They were created as messengers of God, that is what the word angel means. God only allows sex within marriage, we neither marry nor given in marriage at the resurrection---which means no sex. What makes you think God would create billions of creatures, with the "equipment" to have sex, yet not give them a way to have it? He created all creatures on earth to reproduce and said for them to be fruitful and multiply, according to their kind---there is no instance anywhere where angels were given that command. They are not our kind. The bible says we were created lower than the angels. Even if they were to have the "equipment" for it, what makes you think a human female would be able to conceive for we are under the command---under our kind also. A woman can have sex with a dog---there will be no human/puppies.
Not to mention that fallen angels have no respect for the rules of God in heaven, why would they have respect for God's command to "marry"---they wouldn't have bothered to marry anyone, they'd just take them and the bible has no qualms about stating when that happens. It is not biblical, nor does it make sense logically. It means fallen--it means mighty---mighty fallen --Men of God who fell and married women who were not women of God. It is how the Jews read it and how the Targums read it.

." Giants were in the earth in those days; and also when, after that the sons of the mighty had gone in unto the daughters of men, there were born from them giants who from of old were men of name."

From the Targum of Onkelos. Look up Targums if you do not know what they are. Wether from the bible or from the
Targums---THEY WERE MEN. Not half/breed angels.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.