LDS For these angels did not abide my law

Rescued One · Oct 31, 2019

mmksparbud said:
It was because "He is the way" saying that the word spirit means angels.

Thank you. That's certainly a weird thing for him to say.

Doctrine and Covenants 130
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

D&C 132
8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.

In Mormonism, angels are not gods:

15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion????

Peter1000 · Nov 1, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
Thank you. That's certainly a weird thing for him to say.

Doctrine and Covenants 130
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

D&C 132
8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.

In Mormonism, angels are not gods:

15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion????

I do not think "he is the way" meant that the word spirit means angels. He means that most angels are spirits. We believe that there are other angels that are resurrected beings, with bodies of flesh and bone that are sent by the Father to deliver messages to men still living on earth.

We believe that most angels are still in spirit form, without resurrected bodies of flesh and bone.

He is the way · Nov 1, 2019

mmksparbud said:
So when Jesus died, His angel left His lungs and returned to God?

There is nothing there about lungs:

(New Testament | Mark 15:37)

37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

The ghost is not air it is a spirit or angel. Angels are spirits and when we die our spirit returns to God:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:7)

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

(New Testament | Hebrews 1:13 - 14)

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

The apostles knew what a spirit was:

(New Testament | Mark 6:49)

49 But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out:

However Jesus now has a resurrected spiritual body of flesh and bone:

(New Testament | Luke 24:37 - 39)

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

mmksparbud · Nov 1, 2019

He is the way said:
There is nothing there about lungs:

(New Testament | Mark 15:37)

37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

The ghost is not air it is a spirit or angel. Angels are spirits and when we die our spirit returns to God:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:7)

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

(New Testament | Hebrews 1:13 - 14)

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

The apostles knew what a spirit was:

(New Testament | Mark 6:49)

49 But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out:

OJ. Then when Jesus died His angel left His body and returned to God. Not buying that one either.

He is the way · Nov 1, 2019

mmksparbud said:
OJ. Then when Jesus died His angel left His body and returned to God. Not buying that one either.

Jesus' spirit went to the spirit prison to preach to them:

(New Testament | 1 Peter 3:18 - 22)

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Why would Jesus preach to breath (air)?

mmksparbud · Nov 1, 2019

He is the way said:
Jesus' spirit went to the spirit prison to preach to them:

(New Testament | 1 Peter 3:18 - 22)

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Why would Jesus preach to breath (air)?

He was preaching to the disobedient people at the time of Noah through Noah. And I showed you spirit also means a person. Context is everything!

Peter1000 · Nov 1, 2019

mmksparbud said:
OJ. Then when Jesus died His angel left His body and returned to God. Not buying that one either.

Correction:
The scriptures say that Jesus went to the spirit world, which is not where God is. God is in heaven and the spirit world is in the spirit world. How do we know this? This is how:
Jesus's spirit left his body and went with the thief to paradise, which is a part of the spirit world, not heaven. Again, how do we know this - see in just a minute.

Then the scriptures say that Jesus went to those in spirits who were in prison (1 Peter 3:19). Surely, the spirits in prison were not in heaven, right?

Finally after 3 days in the spirit world, Jesus's spirit again unites with his body and he comes out of the tomb, a resurrected man.

Mary is the first to see him, and he tells her not to touch him, (and what was his explanation?)
Do not touch me because I have not ascended unto my Father. So there you have it, proof certain.
Jesus for 3 days was in a place (the spirit world) that God was not (for he was in heaven), obviously, a completely different place than the spirit world.

Now Jesus tells Mary, (after 3 days in the spirit world), I now ascend to my Father and your Father, my God and your God. Which happens to be one of the most important scriptures in the whole bible to explain the relationship between God to his Son Jesus.

Interesting story after Jesus died on the cross.

Peter1000 · Nov 1, 2019

mmksparbud said:
He was preaching to the disobedient people at the time of Noah through Noah. And I showed you spirit also means a person. Context is everything!

If context is everything, then the context of this scripture is telling us what he did after he died, not what he did a long time ago during the lifetime of Noah. You are right context is everything.

He is the way · Nov 1, 2019

mmksparbud said:
He was preaching to the disobedient people at the time of Noah through Noah. And I showed you spirit also means a person. Context is everything!

So then you believe that He was speaking to those persons that had not yet been resurrected?

mmksparbud · Nov 1, 2019

Peter1000 said:
If context is everything, then the context of this scripture is telling us what he did after he died, not what he did a long time ago during the lifetime of Noah. You are right context is everything.

Yes, it is!
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Rescued One · Nov 1, 2019

Peter1000 said:
I do not think "he is the way" meant that the word spirit means angels. He means that most angels are spirits. We believe that there are other angels that are resurrected beings, with bodies of flesh and bone that are sent by the Father to deliver messages to men still living on earth.

We believe that most angels are still in spirit form, without resurrected bodies of flesh and bone.

Angels who have been resurrected, but not to godhood? They should not be believed because they were disobedient!

ViaCrucis · Nov 22, 2019

He is the way said:
These are the last days. Do you remember what Jesus said:

(New Testament | Luke 21:31 - 33)

31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Of course, those things actually happened within the lifetime of those who heard these words, as Jesus is talking about the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple. These things are well attested to in the historical record.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Nov 22, 2019

He is the way said:
There are many more churches than 7 but what authority do they all have?:

(Old Testament | Amos 3:7)

7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

(New Testament | Ephesians 2:20 - 22)

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

It's almost as though before Christ, God spoke through His prophets, who set the foundation for the hope and anticipation of the coming of the Christ. As the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews says,

"Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son," - Hebrews 1:1-2a

And that the Church is built upon the apostles and prophets. For the prophets proclaimed the One who would come; and the Apostles preached the One who had come. And so this Church, which Christ founded with Himself as the Foundation and Chief Cornerstone, is built upon all which God had given, to last and endure the ages. For the Church is built by Christ Himself, and not even the gates of Hades can prevail against it. For this Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever, is the Rock, Cornerstone, the Foundation, the Head, and the Guarantor of His own Church, which is His own Body.

So from the beginning, this Church has remained, built upon its firm foundation. With the Moses and all the Prophets having foretold and preparing, and Christ Himself instituting, and the Apostles proclaiming. And we now living.

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.
We believe in Jesus Christ the only-begotten Son of God, our Lord. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried. He descended into hell. On the third day He rose again. He ascended into the heavens, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.

-CryptoLutheran

He is the way · Nov 22, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
Of course, those things actually happened within the lifetime of those who heard these words, as Jesus is talking about the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple. These things are well attested to in the historical record.

-CryptoLutheran

So when did this happen?

(New Testament | Luke 21:24 - 32)

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 ¶ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

And what of this scripture:

(New Testament | Matthew 16:28)

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

He is the way · Nov 22, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
It's almost as though before Christ, God spoke through His prophets, who set the foundation for the hope and anticipation of the coming of the Christ. As the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews says,

"Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son," - Hebrews 1:1-2a

And that the Church is built upon the apostles and prophets. For the prophets proclaimed the One who would come; and the Apostles preached the One who had come. And so this Church, which Christ founded with Himself as the Foundation and Chief Cornerstone, is built upon all which God had given, to last and endure the ages. For the Church is built by Christ Himself, and not even the gates of Hades can prevail against it. For this Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever, is the Rock, Cornerstone, the Foundation, the Head, and the Guarantor of His own Church, which is His own Body.

So from the beginning, this Church has remained, built upon its firm foundation. With the Moses and all the Prophets having foretold and preparing, and Christ Himself instituting, and the Apostles proclaiming. And we now living.

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.
We believe in Jesus Christ the only-begotten Son of God, our Lord. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried. He descended into hell. On the third day He rose again. He ascended into the heavens, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.

-CryptoLutheran

(New Testament | 2 Timothy 3:1 - 7)

1 THIS know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

ViaCrucis · Nov 23, 2019

He is the way said:
So when did this happen?

(New Testament | Luke 21:24 - 32)

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 ¶ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

In 70 AD the Roman general Titus gathered his armies and besieged the city of Jerusalem. The sun and moon statement can be compared to what's mentioned in Matthew, and also compare to Joel chapter 2, quoted by Peter on Pentecost (Acts of the Apostles 2:14-21).

And what of this scripture:

(New Testament | Matthew 16:28)

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Christ ascended and is seated at the right hand of the Father. Just as Daniel foretold,

"I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a Son of Man, and He came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before Him. And to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him; His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom one that shall not be destroyed." - Daniel 7:13-14

The Son of Man came into His kingdom when He ascended, took His seat at the right hand of the Father. For, as He says, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me" (Matthew 28:18).

He rules and reigns now, and when He comes again He comes with everlasting kingdom, that God might be all in all.

"Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death." - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26

-CryptoLutheran

He is the way · Nov 23, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
In 70 AD the Roman general Titus gathered his armies and besieged the city of Jerusalem. The sun and moon statement can be compared to what's mentioned in Matthew, and also compare to Joel chapter 2, quoted by Peter on Pentecost (Acts of the Apostles 2:14-21).

Christ ascended and is seated at the right hand of the Father. Just as Daniel foretold,

"I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a Son of Man, and He came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before Him. And to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him; His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom one that shall not be destroyed." - Daniel 7:13-14

The Son of Man came into His kingdom when He ascended, took His seat at the right hand of the Father. For, as He says, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me" (Matthew 28:18).

He rules and reigns now, and when He comes again He comes with everlasting kingdom, that God might be all in all.

"Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death." - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26

-CryptoLutheran

You said: "In 70 AD the Roman general Titus gathered his armies and besieged the city of Jerusalem. The sun and moon statement can be compared to what's mentioned in Matthew, and also compare to Joel chapter 2, quoted by Peter on Pentecost (Acts of the Apostles 2:14-21)."

So verse 27 states:

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Do you believe that this has already happened?

You said: "Christ ascended and is seated at the right hand of the Father. Just as Daniel foretold,"

That scripture is not about Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ did taste of death.

ViaCrucis · Nov 24, 2019

He is the way said:
You said: "In 70 AD the Roman general Titus gathered his armies and besieged the city of Jerusalem. The sun and moon statement can be compared to what's mentioned in Matthew, and also compare to Joel chapter 2, quoted by Peter on Pentecost (Acts of the Apostles 2:14-21)."

So verse 27 states:

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Do you believe that this has already happened?

You said: "Christ ascended and is seated at the right hand of the Father. Just as Daniel foretold,"

That scripture is not about Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ did taste of death.

Jesus Christ is the Son of Man who came into His kingdom when He ascended and took His seat at the right hand of the Father, being given all dominion, power, authority, and everlasting kingdom.

-CryptoLutheran

He is the way · Nov 24, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
Jesus Christ is the Son of Man who came into His kingdom when He ascended and took His seat at the right hand of the Father, being given all dominion, power, authority, and everlasting kingdom.

-CryptoLutheran

The second coming has not happened yet.

LDS For these angels did not abide my law

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Confessional Lutheran

Confessional Lutheran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Confessional Lutheran

Well-Known Member

Confessional Lutheran

Well-Known Member

Similar threads