LDS Who is the god of this earth?

Peter1000 · Oct 16, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Sorry---but God had equals to pal around with---His Son, and the Holy Spirit. And then, He definitely had a rival when His favorite angel turned on Him and took 1/3 of His angels. He didn't need lowly humans, made lower than the angels. He wanted them. Like we want a pet, then we get one, but then we love them. And there is nothing we will not do for them. Like we want a child, we have one---then we fall in love with the things and we will move heaven and earth for them. There are people who have never had a child of their own, their pets are their children. We are God's children--He does more than love us, He adopts us as His own children. We love dogs--and we even say now that we adopt them. And we shower them with everything we can---but no matter what---our dogs will never become human. Our own children, we don't need to adopt them, they are ours. Those children that are the product of other parents, we can adopt them, we can give them everything that we have, everything that we own----no matter how much we love them and make them ours---they will never be our own offspring. Nothing changes that fact.

What God does for He does out of love for us. His One and Only Son has died for us. That death paid the price for all sin. That fact seems to escape the Mormon. God, through Jesus has forgiven the whole world already. It was done at the cross, it is a done deal---all that we have to do is accept it. We accept His forgiveness---it is His gift to us because He loves us. When we accept that gift, we naturally return the love He has so freely given and we do as He says because we are forgiven, we return His love with our obedience --but the payment for our sins has already been paid. If we mess up again, we just need to go back under His wings and accept His forgiveness again and turn away from our sins. You guys just do not understand how great the love of God is. I hope you will see it.
with our obedience.

Yes, the word "offspring" would connote that we are not adopted of God, but are literally his children by being his "offspring".

The children of God need to be adopted into the house of Jesus Christ our Lord in order to again gain access to our rightful heritage. So children of God who kept their first estates. Came to earth and became adopted into the house of Jesus and kept their second estates, and now we are heirs of all that God has, and co-heirs with Jesus as a part of his adopted children. It all works well and fits nicely.

mmksparbud · Oct 16, 2019

Peter1000 said:
Yes, the word "offspring" would connote that we are not adopted of God, but are literally his children by being his "offspring".

The children of God need to be adopted into the house of Jesus Christ our Lord in order to again gain access to our rightful heritage. So children of God who kept their first estates. Came to earth and became adopted into the house of Jesus and kept their second estates, and now we are heirs of all that God has, and co-heirs with Jesus as a part of his adopted children. It all works well and fits nicely.

Again, no natural child can loose the fact they are the natural children. You see it every day on the internet. Children who had to be adopted by others, forced to be given away as their parents could not take care of them, they need no adoption papers when they are once again united with their birth parents, even after 60 years apart. I was apart from my own mother over 10 years, though I had a stepmother, I did not loose the fact that I was the natural child of my birth mother and she was my mother. Only children that are not natural children require adoption.
According to your "unnatural" theory----we aren't even of the same substance as our Father and Mother, for we are spirit children while they are flesh and bone! Natural children are of the same substance as their parents, we never were---how crazy is that? That's like a hippo given birth to a panda bear---won't happen. Anyway you slice it, this theory stinks and is not real and doesn't "fit" at all. The only thing that does fit nicely, is that we are not His natural children, but that He loves us so much that He choosers to adopt us as His own and gives us equal footing with His One and Only natural Son, even though we will never attain to the same substance as He. It's easy to see, I adopted a Norwegian Elkhound puppy. She was everyth8ng to me and my husband, she lived with us for 13 years and died at home---much as we loved her and gave her everything we had---she never became human.

mmksparbud · Oct 16, 2019

Peter1000 said:
Yes, the word "offspring" would connote that we are not adopted of God, but are literally his children by being his "offspring".

The children of God need to be adopted into the house of Jesus Christ our Lord in order to again gain access to our rightful heritage. So children of God who kept their first estates. Came to earth and became adopted into the house of Jesus and kept their second estates, and now we are heirs of all that God has, and co-heirs with Jesus as a part of his adopted children. It all works well and fits nicely.

You know, it is sad that you are all so unsatisfied with what God has to offer. It is not enough what He offers. You refuse adoption and demand being of equal Godhood. You will end up receiving the same that the ungrateful Lucifer and his followers will receive---nothing. Being adopted is too cheap a gift, you want to be the god of your own little planet---instead, you will receive your own little lake of fire to share with Satan. It could be so different. I, for one, am joyous beyond believe, to be included into His family and be given eternal life in a world without sin and remade into unimaginable beauty. I'll take being a janitor in that world rather than a queen in yours.

Peter1000 · Oct 17, 2019

mmksparbud said:
You know, it is sad that you are all so unsatisfied with what God has to offer. It is not enough what He offers. You refuse adoption and demand being of equal Godhood. You will end up receiving the same that the ungrateful Lucifer and his followers will receive---nothing. Being adopted is too cheap a gift, you want to be the god of your own little planet---instead, you will receive your own little lake of fire to share with Satan. It could be so different. I, for one, am joyous beyond believe, to be included into His family and be given eternal life in a world without sin and remade into unimaginable beauty. I'll take being a janitor in that world rather than a queen in yours.

I guess you did not read that I know that we must be adopted also. But not into the household of God. We are already offspring of Him from our first estate which we kept.

We need to be adopted into the house of His Son, Jesus the Christ. Only by being adopted into the Son's house may we again access the house of God. So we keep our second estate, and believe in Jesus and become adopted into his house and then we are resurrected and are exalted with the Son, and are co-heirs with the Son of all that the Father has.

Out of curiosity, tell me from this scripture, what were these angels first estate, that they left?
And the word "first" implicates more estates. So what is the angels second estate?
Can you tell me if there is a third or fourth estate?
Jude 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

mmksparbud · Oct 17, 2019

Peter1000 said:
I guess you did not read that I know that we must be adopted also. But not into the household of God. We are already offspring of Him from our first estate which we kept.

We need to be adopted into the house of His Son, Jesus the Christ. Only by being adopted into the Son's house may we again access the house of God. So we keep our second estate, and believe in Jesus and become adopted into his house and then we are resurrected and are exalted with the Son, and are co-heirs with the Son of all that the Father has.

Out of curiosity, tell me from this scripture, what were these angels first estate, that they left?
And the word "first" implicates more estates. So what is the angels second estate?
Can you tell me if there is a third or fourth estate?
Jude 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Yes, I know your reason for agreeing that we all need to be adopted---you're adoption is for different reasons--we are adopted by God the Father, that we may inherit with His One and Only Son. See---the Father has no grandchildren, just as He had no grandfather. To be adopted by the Son, makes us the children of Jesus, the grandchildren to God. The Father calls us His children, never His grandchildren. Jesus is not our Father for through His humanity, He became our brother. In your version, you reject being the children of God the Father, to be children of His Son---I reject that---I am the child of the One and Only Living God the Father, and my Brother is Christ, His One and Only Son. Not only through our shared humanity, but by being the adopted children of His Father. Sorry---but I find the JS version offensive.
The angels 1st estate (home) is when they were in heaven with God and Lucifer led them away. Their 2nd ended up on earth. They're 3rd, and final will be in the lake of fire.

Peter1000 · Oct 18, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Yes, I know your reason for agreeing that we all need to be adopted---you're adoption is for different reasons--we are adopted by God the Father, that we may inherit with His One and Only Son. See---the Father has no grandchildren, just as He had no grandfather. To be adopted by the Son, makes us the children of Jesus, the grandchildren to God. The Father calls us His children, never His grandchildren. Jesus is not our Father for through His humanity, He became our brother. In your version, you reject being the children of God the Father, to be children of His Son---I reject that---I am the child of the One and Only Living God the Father, and my Brother is Christ, His One and Only Son. Not only through our shared humanity, but by being the adopted children of His Father. Sorry---but I find the JS version offensive.
The angels 1st estate (home) is when they were in heaven with God and Lucifer led them away. Their 2nd ended up on earth. They're 3rd, and final will be in the lake of fire.

I know that everything LDS is offensive to you. But if you look at the adoption sequence we are not far off from what you believe. It just cannot be that offensive to you unless you look to be offended.

OK, the dragon/lucifer took 1/3 of the angels from their heavenly home and brought them to their second estate, which is earth, and their third estate will be the lake of fire. Good.

Now lets talk about the 2/3 that aligned themselves with Michael and fought the dragon/lucifer and won the war in heaven. These 2/3 kept there first estate and were not cast out of heaven.
What is their second estate? what is their third estate?

mmksparbud · Oct 18, 2019

Peter1000 said:
I know that everything LDS is offensive to you. But if you look at the adoption sequence we are not far off from what you believe. It just cannot be that offensive to you unless you look to be offended.

OK, the dragon/lucifer took 1/3 of the angels from their heavenly home and brought them to their second estate, which is earth, and their third estate will be the lake of fire. Good.

Now lets talk about the 2/3 that aligned themselves with Michael and fought the dragon/lucifer and won the war in heaven. These 2/3 kept there first estate and were not cast out of heaven.
What is their second estate? what is their third estate?

They retain their 1st estate, home. They are at home with their creator and don't wish nor need to be anywhere else.

Peter1000 · Oct 18, 2019

mmksparbud said:
They retain their 1st estate, home. They are at home with their creator and don't wish nor need to be anywhere else.

The verbiage "first estate" implies that there is a second estate and maybe more. If this was a "heavenly home" where they can stay forever, I think they would not use the term "first estate" to describe their heavenly home, but instead makes us think there is a second or third estate.

As offensive as this sounds to you, the angels in the war in heaven were living in their first estates. lucifer and 1/3 of the angels did not keep their first estate, but were cast out into their second estate. However, they do not have the opportunity to have a body, but are only spirit beings. That is why in the bible that whenever Jesus met up with some of these evil spirits they begged him not to send them out of the body they had taken over. They even asked if he would send them into a herd of pigs and they would have their body.

There is something about a body that is valuable to our eternal life. We know we will be resurrected in our body, but it will be much more powerful and mobil etc., etc., etc.

The other 2/3 of the angels in that war did keep their first estates and had the opportunity to come to earth and their second estate, and obtain a body and to be tested outside the immediate influence of the Father. Those angel/humans that keep their second estate by doing the will of God here on earth and become the sons and daughters of Jesus Christ, will receive an incredible third estate.

It all fits nicely.

mmksparbud · Oct 18, 2019

Peter1000 said:
The verbiage "first estate" implies that there is a second estate and maybe more. If this was a "heavenly home" where they can stay forever, I think they would not use the term "first estate" to describe their heavenly home, but instead makes us think there is a second or third estate.

As offensive as this sounds to you, the angels in the war in heaven were living in their first estates. lucifer and 1/3 of the angels did not keep their first estate, but were cast out into their second estate. However, they do not have the opportunity to have a body, but are only spirit beings. That is why in the bible that whenever Jesus met up with some of these evil spirits they begged him not to send them out of the body they had taken over. They even asked if he would send them into a herd of pigs and they would have their body.

There is something about a body that is valuable to our eternal life. We know we will be resurrected in our body, but it will be much more powerful and mobil etc., etc., etc.

The other 2/3 of the angels in that war did keep their first estates and had the opportunity to come to earth and their second estate, and obtain a body and to be tested outside the immediate influence of the Father. Those angel/humans that keep their second estate by doing the will of God here on earth and become the sons and daughters of Jesus Christ, will receive an incredible third estate.

It all fits nicely.

1st estate is applied only to the fallen angels. Has no bearing at all on the unfallen. The retain the estate they had from time immemorial. No need for any other, nor is any suggested.

Peter1000 · Oct 18, 2019

mmksparbud said:
1st estate is applied only to the fallen angels. Has no bearing at all on the unfallen. The retain the estate they had from time immemorial. No need for any other, nor is any suggested.

For you to say that the term "first estate" does not suggest any other, means you are just being obstinate. You say first estate only applied to the fallen angel, but not to the victorious angels. Well the idea that they were all living in their first estate certainly implies there is a second or third estate for them all.

If you weren't so offended, your eyes would be opened and reason would follow. But since you are offended with anything LDS, even logical conclusions are disgusting to you and you will not see it, nor admit it.
So be that way.

First step means there will be a second step.
First grade means there will be a second grade
First place means that there is a second place.
Firstborn means there is a secondborn.
Give me one example where when you use "first", it does not indicate a "second".

mmksparbud · Oct 18, 2019

Peter1000 said:
For you to say that the term "first estate" does not suggest any other, means you are just being obstinate. You say first estate only applied to the fallen angel, but not to the victorious angels. Well the idea that they were all living in their first estate certainly implies there is a second or third estate for them all.

If you weren't so offended, your eyes would be opened and reason would follow. But since you are offended with anything LDS, even logical conclusions are disgusting to you and you will not see it, nor admit it.
So be that way.

First step means there will be a second step.
First grade means there will be a second grade
First place means that there is a second place.
Firstborn means there is a secondborn.
Give me one example where when you use "first", it does not indicate a "second".

But this is said only about the fallen angels!! The unfallen didn't loose anything! Why would you insist that it means that the unfallen angels also now have to have another estate?? That is not what the scripture says it is what JS says and has nothing to do with truth. Read it!

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

It doesn't say all the angels left their 1st estate---it us talking strictly about "the angels which kept not their first estate". OF COURSE THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A 2ND ESTATE BECAUSE THEY LOST THEIR FIRST, BUT NOT ALL OF THE ANGELS, ONLY THE FALLEN ONES, THAT IS WHAT IT SAYS -- IT'S IMOPOSSIBLE TO SAY IT SAYS ANYTHING ELSE. THIS IS NOT GOD TALKING BUT JS AND HE JUST PLAIN CAN'T SEE TRUTH.

Are all the angels "reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day?" Why would the unfallen angels have to be reserved in chains?

Peter1000 · Oct 19, 2019

mmksparbud said:
But this is said only about the fallen angels!! The unfallen didn't loose anything! Why would you insist that it means that the unfallen angels also now have to have another estate?? That is not what the scripture says it is what JS says and has nothing to do with truth. Read it!

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

It doesn't say all the angels left their 1st estate---it us talking strictly about "the angels which kept not their first estate". OF COURSE THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A 2ND ESTATE BECAUSE THEY LOST THEIR FIRST, BUT NOT ALL OF THE ANGELS, ONLY THE FALLEN ONES, THAT IS WHAT IT SAYS -- IT'S IMOPOSSIBLE TO SAY IT SAYS ANYTHING ELSE. THIS IS NOT GOD TALKING BUT JS AND HE JUST PLAIN CAN'T SEE TRUTH.

Are all the angels "reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day?" Why would the unfallen angels have to be reserved in chains?

No, all angels are not reserved in everlasting.....

But at least a large group of angels were living in what the bible says was their 'first estate'. Some of the angelsin that large group, 'kept not their first estate' but were cast out.

This implies strongly that the other angels in that large group of angels did "keep their first estate", and were not kicked out of their habitation.
So again you have to notice the verbiage "first estate". And it makes us wonder, if this was their first estate, what was their second estate?

You say that is stupid, they were not cast out and stayed in heaven for the rest of time, ignoring the concept of "first estate", because you have never been taught this concept before, but there it is right in the bible. You can not get around the concept that if these angels were living in their "first estate" and they kept their "first estate", what was their "second estate". Again the word "first" more than strongly implies a "second".

We say the second estate was "earth". Where we, the 2/3 angels that kept their first estate, had the opportunity to continue to progress from spirit child of God to spirit adult. Our third estate gives us the opportunity to progress to godhood.

Unfortunately, those angels that did not keep their first estate, were kicked out to earth without the possibility to have bodies of flesh and bone and will not have the opportunity to progress any further. There third estate is the pit and damnation, with only means that they will never be able to advance or progress or increase, they are damned, stopped, and cannot advance. That place is not where you want to go.

So interesting subject.

mmksparbud · Oct 19, 2019

Peter1000 said:
No, all angels are not reserved in everlasting.....

But at least a large group of angels were living in what the bible says was their 'first estate'. Some of the angelsin that large group, 'kept not their first estate' but were cast out.

This implies strongly that the other angels in that large group of angels did "keep their first estate", and were not kicked out of their habitation.
So again you have to notice the verbiage "first estate". And it makes us wonder, if this was their first estate, what was their second estate?

You say that is stupid, they were not cast out and stayed in heaven for the rest of time, ignoring the concept of "first estate", because you have never been taught this concept before, but there it is right in the bible. You can not get around the concept that if these angels were living in their "first estate" and they kept their "first estate", what was their "second estate". Again the word "first" more than strongly implies a "second".

We say the second estate was "earth". Where we, the 2/3 angels that kept their first estate, had the opportunity to continue to progress from spirit child of God to spirit adult. Our third estate gives us the opportunity to progress to godhood.

Unfortunately, those angels that did not keep their first estate, were kicked out to earth without the possibility to have bodies of flesh and bone and will not have the opportunity to progress any further. There third estate is the pit and damnation, with only means that they will never be able to advance or progress or increase, they are damned, stopped, and cannot advance. That place is not where you want to go.

So interesting subject.

KJV Dictionary Definition: estate
estate
ESTA'TE,n. L. status, from sto, to stand. The roots stb, std and stg, have nearly the same signification, to set, to fix. It is probable that the L. sto is contracted from stad, as it forms steti.

1. In a general sense, fixedness; a fixed condition; now generally written and pronounced state.

She cast us headlong from our high estate.

2. Condition or circumstances of any person or thing, whether high or low. Luke 1.

3. Rank; quality.

Who hath not heard of the greatness of your estate?

4. In law, the interest, or quantity of interest, a man has in lands, tenements, or other effects. Estates are real or personal. Real estate consists in lands or freeholds, which descent to heirs; personal estate consists in chattels or movables, which go to executors and administrators. There are also estates for life, for years, at will, &c.

5. Fortune; possessions; property in general. He is a man of a great estate. He left his estate unincumbered.

6. The general business or interest of government; hence, a political body; a commonwealth; a republic. But in this sense, we now use State.

The angels that fell lost their first estate----home, position, condition (of sinlessness). Therefore, they obviously ended up with another---a different home--earth, no longer unfallen position, no longer held whatever position or standing they had in heaven. The unfallen angels lost nothing.

Peter1000 · Oct 19, 2019

mmksparbud said:
KJV Dictionary Definition: estate
estate
ESTA'TE,n. L. status, from sto, to stand. The roots stb, std and stg, have nearly the same signification, to set, to fix. It is probable that the L. sto is contracted from stad, as it forms steti.

1. In a general sense, fixedness; a fixed condition; now generally written and pronounced state.

She cast us headlong from our high estate.

2. Condition or circumstances of any person or thing, whether high or low. Luke 1.

3. Rank; quality.

Who hath not heard of the greatness of your estate?

4. In law, the interest, or quantity of interest, a man has in lands, tenements, or other effects. Estates are real or personal. Real estate consists in lands or freeholds, which descent to heirs; personal estate consists in chattels or movables, which go to executors and administrators. There are also estates for life, for years, at will, &c.

5. Fortune; possessions; property in general. He is a man of a great estate. He left his estate unincumbered.

6. The general business or interest of government; hence, a political body; a commonwealth; a republic. But in this sense, we now use State.

The angels that fell lost their first estate----home, position, condition (of sinlessness). Therefore, they obviously ended up with another---a different home--earth, no longer unfallen position, no longer held whatever position or standing they had in heaven. The unfallen angels lost nothing.

All your definitions were on the word "estate". Do a definition search on the word "first". This is the issue.
Both the fallen and non-fallen angels were in their "first estate", which by definition, means both will have a "second estate".

The 'first' anything, always leads to a 'second'.

Again the challenge: Tell me one thing that starts with "first" does not lead to a "second".

Here is a great example of that:
Colossians 1:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Because of this scripture, we know that Jesus was in the exact image of God, and was the "first"born of every creature. Now, what does that imply?

Since he was the "first"born, there had to be a "second"born, and probably a "third"born, and etc., to "billions"born.

We also know this: Jesus was not the "first" human man created. That was Adam.

So what was Jesus the "first"born of? He was the "first"born of every "spirit" creature of God. If Jesus was the "first"born, by definition there was a "second"born and so forth until there were many spirit children of God (angels of God), and the "first" estate was established. 1/3 kept not this "first" estate, and will go onto their "second estate" and then onto hell, and their progress will be stopped. 2/3 kept their "first" estate and will progress to earth and then if they keep their "second" estate, will progress on to heaven. Many of the 2/3 will not keep their "second" estate and will go onto hell, and their progress will be stopped also.

Someday I will have to write you a book, so you can see the entire process before your eyes and see its entirety and maybe then you will understand. It is really quite interesting.

mmksparbud · Oct 19, 2019

Peter1000 said:
All your definitions were on the word "estate". Do a definition search on the word "first". This is the issue.
Both the fallen and non-fallen angels were in their "first estate", which by definition, means both will have a "second estate".

The 'first' anything, always leads to a 'second'.

Again the challenge: Tell me one thing that starts with "first" does not lead to a "second".

Here is a great example of that:
Colossians 1:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Because of this scripture, we know that Jesus was in the exact image of God, and was the "first"born of every creature. Now, what does that imply?

Since he was the "first"born, there had to be a "second"born, and probably a "third"born, and etc., to "billions"born.

We also know this: Jesus was not the "first" human man created. That was Adam.

So what was Jesus the "first"born of? He was the "first"born of every "spirit" creature of God. If Jesus was the "first"born, by definition there was a "second"born and so forth until there were many spirit children of God (angels of God), and the "first" estate was established. 1/3 kept not this "first" estate, and will go onto their "second estate" and then onto hell, and their progress will be stopped. 2/3 kept their "first" estate and will progress to earth and then if they keep their "second" estate, will progress on to heaven. Many of the 2/3 will not keep their "second" estate and will go onto hell, and their progress will be stopped also.

Someday I will have to write you a book, so you can see the entire process before your eyes and see its entirety and maybe then you will understand. It is really quite interesting.

Because it doesn't matter!!! It is in reference only to the fallen angels. That is glaringly obvious!! And it has already been stated---countless times now---that those angels did end up having a 2nd estate---the earth, because they lost their heavenly abode, they had a 2nd, different relationship with the Lord and all the rest of the unfallen angles, they were no longer apart of the heavenly family---all the fallen angels ended up with a 2nd estate--a different life from the first---what is the argument? They had another estate---EARTH and no longer a part of the heavenly family--destined for a different end than the rest of the unfallen angels. YES---THEY ENDED UP WITH A DIFFERENT---2ND ESTSTE---AND SO WHAT IS IT YOU KEEP TRYING TO STATE BY THAT THERE IS A 2ND IF THERE IS A FIRST---IT'S BEEN AGREED TO FROM THE FIRST---THE FALLEN GET A 2ND---THE UNFALLEN LOST NOTHING!

Peter1000 · Oct 20, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Because it doesn't matter!!! It is in reference only to the fallen angels. That is glaringly obvious!! And it has already been stated---countless times now---that those angels did end up having a 2nd estate---the earth, because they lost their heavenly abode, they had a 2nd, different relationship with the Lord and all the rest of the unfallen angles, they were no longer apart of the heavenly
family---all the fallen angels ended up with a 2nd estate--a different life from the first---what is the argument? They had another estate---EARTH and no longer a part of the heavenly family--destined for a different end than the rest of the unfallen angels. YES---THEY ENDED UP WITH A DIFFERENT---2ND ESTSTE---AND SO WHAT IS IT YOU KEEP TRYING TO STATE BY THAT THERE IS A 2ND IF THERE IS A FIRST---IT'S BEEN AGREED TO FROM THE FIRST---THE FALLEN GET A 2ND---THE UNFALLEN LOST NOTHING!

As you said there was a heavenly family, living in their "first estate". Part of that family kept not their "first estate" and were cast out of heaven to earth, their "second estate.

The part of the family that kept their "first estate" by the definition of "first" were eventually to go to "second" estate too, since they were living in their "first estate".

We believe that the whole family were all going to go to the earth. The fallen angels were cast out to the earth with no bodies of flesh and bone that was so important. Their work became the work of devils, to tempt and torment the unfallen that had kept their first estate and in the second estate cause them to stumble and fall into their condition and lose their progression to heaven.

Why did God create billion upon billions of angels, only to have them sit around him all day and night for millions upon millions of years? No. If Revelations 12 does not open your eyes a little bit to the condition of the first estate, and the heavenly family, maybe JS can. Open your eyes and your heart.[/quote][/QUOTE]

mmksparbud · Oct 20, 2019

Peter1000 said:
As you said there was a heavenly family, living in their "first estate". Part of that family kept not their "first estate" and were cast out of heaven to earth, their "second estate.

The part of the family that kept their "first estate" by the definition of "first" were eventually to go to "second" estate too, since they were living in their "first estate".

We believe that the whole family were all going to go to the earth. The fallen angels were cast out to the earth with no bodies of flesh and bone that was so important. Their work became the work of devils, to tempt and torment the unfallen that had kept their first estate and in the second estate cause them to stumble and fall into their condition and lose their progression to heaven.

Why did God create billion upon billions of angels, only to have them sit around him all day and night for millions upon millions of years? No. If Revelations 12 does not open your eyes a little bit to the condition of the first estate, and the heavenly family, maybe JS can. Open your eyes and your heart.

How in the world has what the fallen angels getting booted out of heaven got anything to do with the unfallen angels also having to get booted out of heaven??? The fallen angels lost their place in heaven for they rebelled against the Lord God. The unfallen angels kept their first estate and therefore required no punishment. That would be the equivalent of hanging a man for rape, but then hanging the man who came to the victims aid also!!! What on earth for! If that is what you call having your eyes opened---I'll keep them shut, thank you! What in the world makes you think that the angels sit around
doing nothing? God calls them His messengers--and they have jobs to do that we know not. That is another reason why I believe there are galaxies out there full of other planets which have not fallen. Some of the unfallen ones work on this earth to help God's children. We have no idea of the things that are needed to be done to maintain God's universe and God's home itself. His realm is the 3rd heaven that Paul wrote about. (And please, don't get on that again---the 1st is the immediate atmosphere above us and the 2nd is in-between) Just because you, or us, can't figure out what those angels do doesn't mean they're sitting around for billions of eons plucking harps. God doe not make useless things. He has a purpose for them. He didn't make Adam and Eve to be useless either, they were to take care of the garden and animals--they were to produce chikldre3n, take care them and help them to grow to be productive beings. They would have all been doing things that we all do now, without sin. Making instruments of music, food, working with the stones and Jewels of the ground, everything. They were given fully functioning brains that are to be used and the angels have them also and have their own work to do. It is not in the character of God to make useless things.

Peter1000 · Nov 1, 2019

mmksparbud said:
How in the world has what the fallen angels getting booted out of heaven got anything to do with the unfallen angels also having to get booted out of heaven??? The fallen angels lost their place in heaven for they rebelled against the Lord God. The unfallen angels kept their first estate and therefore required no punishment. That would be the equivalent of hanging a man for rape, but then hanging the man who came to the victims aid also!!! What on earth for! If that is what you call having your eyes opened---I'll keep them shut, thank you! What in the world makes you think that the angels sit around
doing nothing? God calls them His messengers--and they have jobs to do that we know not. That is another reason why I believe there are galaxies out there full of other planets which have not fallen. Some of the unfallen ones work on this earth to help God's children. We have no idea of the things that are needed to be done to maintain God's universe and God's home itself. His realm is the 3rd heaven that Paul wrote about. (And please, don't get on that again---the 1st is the immediate atmosphere above us and the 2nd is in-between) Just because you, or us, can't figure out what those angels do doesn't mean they're sitting around for billions of eons plucking harps. God doe not make useless things. He has a purpose for them. He didn't make Adam and Eve to be useless either, they were to take care of the garden and animals--they were to produce chikldre3n, take care them and help them to grow to be productive beings. They would have all been doing things that we all do now, without sin. Making instruments of music, food, working with the stones and Jewels of the ground, everything. They were given fully functioning brains that are to be used and the angels have them also and have their own work to do. It is not in the character of God to make useless things.

The fallen angels did not keep their "first estate" and were kicked out of the heavenly family to earth, their "second estate", without bodies and without the ability to progress.

The unfallen angels did keep their "first estate". "First" implies there is a "second" for them, as well as for the fallen angels, they were all in the heavenly family living in their "first estate".
The rest of the heavenly family, or the unfallen also came to earth, their "second estate", but under seriously different conditions. The unfallen were born on earth with bodies of flesh and bone and had the opportunity to advance or progress, but only if they keep their "second estate", which was similar to their "first estate", only outside the direct influence of God and Jesus.

The "second estate" is where we are now, and you and I are keeping our "second estate" by believing in God and his Son Jesus and doing their will here on earth, even though satan and his angels are trying to compel us to do his will, as he did in our "first estate". If we continue to choose God and Jesus and do their will, we will progress into our "third estate" as glorified exalted beings just like Jesus is.

The fallen will go into their "third estate" of hell and damnation, never to rise again to tempt and compel us, the unfallen of the heavenly family, to do evil. We will overcome satan and will be sat down with Jesus in his throne and reign for ever in his kingdom.

That in a nutshell is the whole progression story, we are playing it out for all the marbles here in our "second estate". So stay true to God and Jesus and you will be happy you did.

mmksparbud · Nov 1, 2019

Peter1000 said:
The fallen angels did not keep their "first estate" and were kicked out of the heavenly family to earth, their "second estate", without bodies and without the ability to progress.

The unfallen angels did keep their "first estate". "First" implies there is a "second" for them, as well as for the fallen angels, they were all in the heavenly family living in their "first estate".
The rest of the heavenly family, or the unfallen also came to earth, their "second estate", but under seriously different conditions. The unfallen were born on earth with bodies of flesh and bone and had the opportunity to advance or progress, but only if they keep their "second estate", which was similar to their "first estate", only outside the direct influence of God and Jesus.

The "second estate" is where we are now, and you and I are keeping our "second estate" by believing in God and his Son Jesus and doing their will here on earth, even though satan and his angels are trying to compel us to do his will, as he did in our "first estate". If we continue to choose God and Jesus and do their will, we will progress into our "third estate" as glorified exalted beings just like Jesus is.

The fallen will go into their "third estate" of hell and damnation, never to rise again to tempt and compel us, the unfallen of the heavenly family, to do evil. We will overcome satan and will be sat down with Jesus in his throne and reign for ever in his kingdom.

That in a nutshell is the whole progression story, we are playing it out for all the marbles here in our "second estate". So stay true to God and Jesus and you will be happy you did.

Maybe you are---I am keeping my first estate---I was born into this world and did not exist before being born. There is no reason for unfallen angels to loose their first estate. They stayed loyal to God and, as Gabriel, have continued to be with Him. God doesn't reward His loyal angels by kicking them out of His presence along with the fallen ones, that'll leave Him with no one! Nope, don't buy that Kool aide.

Peter1000 · Nov 1, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Maybe you are---I am keeping my first estate---I was born into this world and did not exist before being born. There is no reason for unfallen angels to loose their first estate. They stayed loyal to God and, as Gabriel, have continued to be with Him. God doesn't reward His loyal angels by kicking them out of His presence along with the fallen ones, that'll leave Him with no one! Nope, don't buy that Kool aide.

The faithful unfallen angels did not loose their "first estate", they kept it, and for doing so were able to come to their "second estate" in good standing with God and Jesus, with the promise that if they kept their "second estate" they would be blessed for ever and ever in the kingdom of God and Jesus.

You stayed loyal to God and Jesus in your "first estate", and now in your "second estate" are being faithful and loyal even though God and Jesus are not present. You are living by faith. This makes you a very valuable person to God and Jesus, and you will be happy for all eternity. God bless you to stay valiant to the end.

Don't worry about God, he will not be left alone. It is his glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of his children, and the "second estate" is the proving grounds for those that kept their "first estate" in his presence.

LDS Who is the god of this earth?

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