What does the Bible teach about physical abuse?

BigV · Oct 31, 2019

Sorry if this post is triggering for some, but I thought I'd start a conversation to show that the Bible, especially the New Testament is a very bad guide on what to do in an abusive situation.

For instance, imagine a Christian woman who is being beaten by her husband. What does the Bible, and Jesus, in particular, say she must do?

According to Jesus' teaching, she must not resist evil and must "turn the other" cheek.

Matthew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.

This poor woman also cannot divorce her husband, unless, he has committed adultery.

Matthew 19:8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Matthew 5:31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

So, what can she do? If she goes to the police and asks for protection, doesn't she resist the evil in doing this?

By no means am I advocating violence or that anyone suffer violence. I'm just point out that Bible teaching doesn't really follow common sense, to the detriment of it's more serious followers.

2PhiloVoid · Oct 31, 2019

BigV said:
Sorry if this post is triggering for some, but I thought I'd start a conversation to show that the Bible, especially the New Testament is a very bad guide on what to do in an abusive situation.

For instance, imagine a Christian woman who is being beaten by her husband. What does the Bible, and Jesus, in particular, say she must do?

According to Jesus' teaching, she must not resist evil and must "turn the other" cheek.

Matthew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.

This poor woman also cannot divorce her husband, unless, he has committed adultery.

Matthew 19:8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Matthew 5:31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

So, what can she do? If she goes to the police and asks for protection, doesn't she resist the evil in doing this?

By no means am I advocating violence or that anyone suffer violence. I'm just point out that Bible teaching doesn't really follow common sense, to the detriment of it's more serious followers.

I already answered this in reaction to another detractor here on CF, but I think the mods erased it.

So, here's another attempt to answer this already answered question:

Matthew 5:38-39 – The True Meaning of Turn the Other Cheek

Does ‘Turn the Other Cheek’ Mean ‘Get Walked All Over’?

Defiance, Not Compliance: Turning the Other Cheek

“Turning the Other Cheek”: Jesus’ Peaceful Plan to Challenge Injustice

What Does “Turn the Other Cheek” Mean?

Not David · Oct 31, 2019

I don't think any of the Apostolic Churches say you have to endure abuse.

2PhiloVoid · Oct 31, 2019

BigV said:
Sorry if this post is triggering for some, but I thought I'd start a conversation to show that the Bible, especially the New Testament is a very bad guide on what to do in an abusive situation.

For instance, imagine a Christian woman who is being beaten by her husband. What does the Bible, and Jesus, in particular, say she must do?

According to Jesus' teaching, she must not resist evil and must "turn the other" cheek.

Matthew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.

This poor woman also cannot divorce her husband, unless, he has committed adultery.

Matthew 19:8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Matthew 5:31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

So, what can she do? If she goes to the police and asks for protection, doesn't she resist the evil in doing this?

By no means am I advocating violence or that anyone suffer violence. I'm just point out that Bible teaching doesn't really follow common sense, to the detriment of it's more serious followers.

Moreover, if an abused wife comes to realize that her husband is either a Pig or, worse, a Wolf, even one in sheep's clothing, then she, as a Christian, has some additional lines of action that can be taken, doesn't she? She can also take the issue to the Church, and if that doesn't work, then today, there's also the police and the F.B.I., if needed, right?

BigV · Oct 31, 2019

2PhiloVoid said:
So, here's another attempt to answer this already answered question:

Matthew 5:38-39 – The True Meaning of Turn the Other Cheek

You have to consider the context, which tells you to NOT resist and evil doer.

And then, ask yourself the following question. Why should the Bible be trusted, if you need to come up with 'interpretations' and 'explanations' that would allow you to not follow what it explicitly states you must do or must not do?

BigV · Oct 31, 2019

David Neos said:
I don't think any of the Apostolic Churches say you have to endure abuse.

Isn't Catholic an Apostolic Church?
'Their cross to bear': The Catholic women told to forgive domestic violence

2PhiloVoid · Oct 31, 2019

BigV said:
You have to consider the context, which tells you to NOT resist and evil doer.

And then, ask yourself the following question. Why should the Bible be trusted, if you need to come up with 'interpretations' and 'explanations' that would allow you to not follow what it explicitly states you must do or must not do?

Because the Bible didn't drop out of a Worm Hole or out of some magical void and land with a splat upon the human pavement .................... !

So, like any book, the Bible has to be taken, opened and read with all of the unremovable spider-webs that are still attached to it and in which it resides and is stuck. Besides, it's not as if the biblical writers themselves wrote to actually teach ancient forms of Hebrew, or Aramaic or Greek in which the bible, again, was written by its authors. No, one must learn all of these first linguistic and cultural properties by going---------------------that's right------------------you guessed it----------------OUTSIDE OF THE BIBLE!

BigV · Oct 31, 2019

2PhiloVoid said:
Moreover, if an abused wife comes to realize that her husband is either a Pig or, worse, a Wolf, even one in sheep's clothing, then she, as a Christian, has some additional lines of action that can be taken, doesn't she? She can also take the issue to the Church, and if that doesn't work, then today, there's also the police and the F.B.I., if needed, right?

Sounds like resistance to me. I don't disapprove of these means, but they are not based on Jesus' teachings.

Not David · Oct 31, 2019

BigV said:
Isn't Catholic an Apostolic Church?
'Their cross to bear': The Catholic women told to forgive domestic violence

So what? There are bad priests who give bad advice and the fact one of them don't consider violence as breaking vows is concerning.

BigV · Oct 31, 2019

2PhiloVoid said:
Because the Bible didn't drop out of a Worm Hole or out of some magical void and land with a splat opon the human pavement .................... !

So, like any book, the Bible has to be taken, opened and read with all of the unremovable spider-webs that are still attached to it and in which it resides and is stuck. Besides, it's not as if the biblical writers themselves wrote to actually teach ancient forms of Hebrew, or Aramaic or Greek in which the bible, again, was written by its authors. No, one must learn all of these first linguistic and cultural properties by going---------------------that's right------------------you guessed it----------------OUTSIDE OF THE BIBLE!

So, why don't the Bible translators use context? You know, so they can translate the text for what it actually means for us today?

2PhiloVoid · Oct 31, 2019

BigV said:
Sounds like resistance to me. I don't disapprove of these means, but they are not based on Jesus' teachings.

So, you're just going to ignore all of what I've just provided for you? It sounds like you're dead-set on resisting my overtures toward explaining the more likely reality of the context of the biblical text.

Ok. Suite yourself. We'll just let you wallow in your solipsism, then.

BigV · Oct 31, 2019

2PhiloVoid said:
So, you're just going to ignore all of what I've just provided for you? It sounds like you're dead-set on resisting my overtures toward explaining the more likely reality of the context of the biblical text.

Ok. Suite yourself. We'll just let you wallow in your solipsism, then.

"Context" is a Christian-speak for "Let me tell you why the text doesn't mean what it actually says". What use is it to have a moral code that must be twisted and re-twisted into ultimately following the common sense practices?

2PhiloVoid · Oct 31, 2019

BigV said:
So, why don't the Bible translators use context? You know, so they can translate the text for what it actually means for us today?

Because as Philosophical Hermeneuticists will explain to you, today, any author or producer of communication is essentially limited by his own cultural and perspective of the epistemic horizon in which he (or she) actually lives. So, the best you'll probably see is some epistemic awareness of this written as small motifs in the text that are made, such as are found in the first few chapters of the Gospel of John or in a few other places, maybe like 2 Peter, or even back in Ezra and Nehemiah.

But, since the awareness of interpretive principles is limited by each author's cultural and ideological horizon, he (or she) can't be expected to know that people living in the future will become disconnected from all of the various cultural elements that belong to a particular era. The writers of the bible couldn't anticipate fully how people in the Post-Enlightenment centuries, up to today, would shape not only their own interpretive matrices of the world around them but also be displaced by time and space from those details that are lost to the entropy of the past.

2PhiloVoid · Oct 31, 2019

BigV said:
"Context" is a Christian-speak for "Let me tell you why the text doesn't mean what it actually says".

No. What really is going on is that the denial of the reality of time and culturally dependent context(s) not only comes by way of a choice in which one chooses to ignore the processes of understanding better the products of the past, but it is also comes through an ongoing assertion that isn't the sole problem of atheists: it's part of the human mental condition.

Like I said earlier, what you're doing is trying to fend off SHAZAM with Kryptonite, and you're not seeing that this is the case because you refuse to engage additional horizons that can come by recognizing the necessity of applying various forms of Hermeneutics, some of which bring in issues of Historiography, Philosophy of History, as well as Cultural Studies, among other things.

What use is it to have a moral code that must be twisted and re-twisted into ultimately following the common sense practices?

... I imagine it has something to do with the reason Jesus spoke in Parables. It's not about fairness, it's about integrity of the heart. Do you have integrity?

And also like I said in another place to you, you may want to get Lois Tverberg's book, "Reading the Bible with Rabbi Jesus," and start from there...................

jayem · Oct 31, 2019

2PhiloVoid said:
She can also take the issue to the Church, and if that doesn't work, then today, there's also the police and the F.B.I., if needed, right?

The FBI would not have jurisdiction in most cases of spousal abuse. AFAIK, most all of these crimes occur within a state border and are matters for the local police. Exceptions might be if the abuser was also a possible domestic terrorist, or a serial killer, or the abuse involved taking the victim across state lines. I believe the FBI can also become involved if the victim was a federal employee, or a state law enforcement officer and was killed.

bèlla · Oct 31, 2019

Greetings,

This issue is clearly addressed in Christ’s directive to love our neighbor as ourselves. He didn’t need to mention every evil act we’d conceive. The premise is clear.

Abuse is a violation of that precept.

~Bella

2PhiloVoid · Oct 31, 2019

jayem said:
The FBI would not have jurisdiction in most cases of spousal abuse. AFAIK, most all of these crimes occur within a state border and are matters for the local police. Exceptions might be if the abuser was also a possible domestic terrorist, or a serial killer, or the abuse involved taking the victim across state lines. I believe the FBI can also become involved if the victim was a federal employee, or a state law enforcement officer and was killed.

Oh, well. Here's to hoping that would have been the case and that they could have addressed the problem, but if spousal abuse is outside of their jurisdiction, then that is what it is and to the police then 'she' should go, if needed. No ifs, no buts, just go...................

jayem · Oct 31, 2019

2PhiloVoid said:
Oh, well. Here's to hoping that would have been the case the they could have addressed the problem, but if spousal abuse is outside of their jurisdiction, then that what it is and to the police then 'she' should go, if needed. No ifs, no buts, just go...................

The FBI is limited to investigating federal crimes, as defined by federal law. But to my knowledge, any assault on a federal employee is a federal crime. So the FBI could investigate domestic abuse if the abused spouse is employed by the federal government.

RDKirk · Oct 31, 2019

BigV said:
Sounds like resistance to me. I don't disapprove of these means, but they are not based on Jesus' teachings.

See Matthew 18, in Jesus' own words.

The intention is that we all be members of a Body of Christ in active communion with one another. Husband and wife might be a special relationship, but there should still be relationships as brothers and sisters to all other members of the Body.

Matthew 18 operates for a married couple just as it operates for any other relationship between two Christians.

When I attended Calvary Chapel of Honolulu in the mid 90s, the church had a program called "House of Ruth." If they found a wife in the congregation being abused, they would go in and remove her (and her children) from the house and move them to a confidential safe house.

Then a team of counselors, cops who were members, and members of the Security Ministry would wait in the house for the husband to come home.

"Who are you? Where is my wife?"
"Our dear sister is safe. And she will remain safe. But we are going to talk."

2PhiloVoid · Oct 31, 2019

jayem said:
The FBI is limited to investigating federal crimes, as defined by federal law. But to my knowledge, any assault on a federal employee is a federal crime. So the FBI could investigate domestic abuse if the abused spouse is employed by the federal government.

You've just given me a great new activist line of thought: I should support all of the ladies in the #MeToo movement and suggest they all become Federal Employees! That ought to take care of a whole host of problems if they could follow through. Although, it might make a few new ones, but even so I think it'd be worth the trade off. Besides, one can never hold men as being 'too accountable' these days. :eheh:

What does the Bible teach about physical abuse?

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