Try to find SDA view of Sabbath vs Sunday in the Early Church Fathers with links to quotes

Daniel Marsh

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until you read the Bible (the very document you claim to be avoiding like the plague in your ECF threads)


consider the following example -

The doctrine of the Trinity -





================================

Regarding the Bible doctrine on future judgment





==========================

How "nice" then that the Westminster Confession of Faith, The Catholic Catechism, the Baptist Confession of faith ... all confirm that all TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant. (Which of course - includes the Sabbath Commandment)


Last part is irreverent and does not meet the challenge.
 
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BobRyan

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?? what??

you say that because "A woman wrote the Bible"??? and only the ECFs get us out of that problem?

Seriously??

Have you considered reading the OP??

Try to find SDA view of Sabbath vs Sunday in the Early Church Fathers with links to quotes

In the Epistle of Barnabas (xv) we read:

By contrast in the actual Bible we have

"the 7th day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10

And - for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

And "every Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles in the synagogue hearing Gospel preaching Acts 18:4

"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

==================================

Bible details on the TEN Commandments as the moral law of God written on the heart - so obvious that all these well-known sources agree

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

================= no wonder Paul says to beware of future traditions bringing in doctrinal error

Acts 20
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

No wonder Christ demonstrated the way to "hammer" supposedly holy-tradition of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai -- via "sola scriptura"

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”


 
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Danthemailman

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?? what??

you say that because "A woman wrote the Bible"??? and only the ECFs get us out of that problem
Say what? I wasn’t implying that at all. The point I was making is that Bible based doctrine is far better than man-made doctrine OR woman-made doctrine. (Ellen G White)
Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Ellen White

Savage wolves pervert the gospel by teaching salvation by “grace plus law, faith plus works” (Galatians 1:6-9) and also turn keeping the sabbath day into an idol, since they twist the scriptures and mix the old and new covenants. Such people are thoroughly indoctrinated and unteachable.
 
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BobRyan

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Say what? I wasn’t implying that at all. The point I was making is that Bible based doctrine is far better than man-made

Interesting idea that you are coming out against the proposal in the OP that doctrine be established only based on ECF writings and not scripture.
 
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BobRyan

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Bible details on the TEN Commandments as the moral law of God written on the heart - so obvious that all these well-known sources agree

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

The point I was making is that Bible based doctrine is far better than man-made doctrine OR woman-made doctrine. (Ellen G White)
Bible Truth Versus Adventist Trut .

This idea you seem to have that those guys got their idea of all Ten of the Ten commandments being included in the New Covenant is just a case of a bunch of denominations all following Ellen White -- is a bit strange to me.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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?? what??

you say that because "A woman wrote the Bible"??? and only the ECFs get us out of that problem?

Seriously??

Have you considered reading the OP??



By contrast in the actual Bible we have

"the 7th day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10

And - for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

And "every Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles in the synagogue hearing Gospel preaching Acts 18:4

"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

==================================

Bible details on the TEN Commandments as the moral law of God written on the heart - so obvious that all these well-known sources agree

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

================= no wonder Paul says to beware of future traditions bringing in doctrinal error

Acts 20
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

No wonder Christ demonstrated the way to "hammer" supposedly holy-tradition of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai -- via "sola scriptura"




irreverent and does not meet the challenge.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Interesting idea that you are coming out against the proposal in the OP that doctrine be established only based on ECF writings and not scripture.

They were taught by the Apostles themselves. Any Pastor's Preaching and your own opinions including mine can be called man made. In fact, the Bible itself was written by men who used their own words. Do you really want to claim the bible is man made too?
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Bible details on the TEN Commandments as the moral law of God written on the heart - so obvious that all these well-known sources agree

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism



This idea you seem to have that those guys got their idea of all Ten of the Ten commandments being included in the New Covenant is just a case of a bunch of denominations all following Ellen White -- is a bit strange to me.

irreverent and does not meet the challenge.
 
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BobRyan

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Mark 7
5 The Pharisees and the scribes *asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat their bread with impure hands?” 6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Acts 20
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

No wonder Christ demonstrated the way to "hammer" supposedly holy-tradition of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai -- via "sola scriptura"

They were taught by the Apostles themselves.

Not according to Paul in Acts 20 -- Paul claims that simply being taught by him was not enough to stop the heresy from within .

Paul told Timothy to try and stop the rise of apostasy

1 Tim 1
3 As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines, 4 nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation

John points out that it was getting out of control
3 John 1
9 I wrote something to the church; but Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them, does not accept what we say. 10 For this reason, if I come, I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us with wicked words; and not satisfied with this, he himself does not receive the brethren, either, and he forbids those who desire to do so and puts them out of the church.

So with an outright firefight in the first century we are then being told that in the 2nd and 3rd century "all must have been well.. surely nothing could have gone amiss".

Seriously??
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Mark 7
5 The Pharisees and the scribes *asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat their bread with impure hands?” 6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”





Not according to Paul in Acts 20 -- Paul claims that simply being taught by him was not enough to stop the heresy from within .

Paul told Timothy to try and stop the rise of apostasy

1 Tim 1
3 As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines, 4 nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation

John points out that it was getting out of control
3 John 1
9 I wrote something to the church; but Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them, does not accept what we say. 10 For this reason, if I come, I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us with wicked words; and not satisfied with this, he himself does not receive the brethren, either, and he forbids those who desire to do so and puts them out of the church.

So with an outright firefight in the first century we are then being told that in the 2nd and 3rd century "all must have been well.. surely nothing could have gone amiss".

Seriously??

again, failed to meet the challenge, see OP.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Do you mean "irrelevant"?


see OP. People's interpretation is just their own opinion like mine when I do the same thing. But, by looking at the Early Church Fathers --- one sees what the early church believed because they were taught by the Apostles.
 
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Concord1968

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see OP. People's interpretation is just their own opinion like mine when I do the same thing. But, by looking at the Early Church Fathers --- one sees what the early church believed because they were taught by the Apostles.
Did not address my question. You keep using "irreverent" where the word "irrelevant" would more appropriately be used.
 
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BobRyan

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again, failed to meet the challenge, see OP.

I am pretty good at dismissing "ignore your Bible when vetting doctrine" challenges

I mentioned your no-Bible-just-ECF for doctrine idea to some of your fellow ECF-ers and they could not believe anyone was actually doing such a thing. Thankfully we have your threads here to demonstrate the reality of it.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Did not address my question. You keep using "irreverent" where the word "irrelevant" would more appropriately be used.

It is irreverent because the OP changeling you to use only historical sources outside the Bible.
They were taught by the Apostles and as such represent what the early Church believed.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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I am pretty good at dismissing "ignore your Bible when vetting doctrine" challenges

I mentioned your no-Bible-just-ECF for doctrine idea to some of your fellow ECF-ers and they could not believe anyone was actually doing such a thing. Thankfully we have your threads here to demonstrate the reality of it.

ECF are historical sources that demonstrates how the Early Church understand the Bible and were taught directly by the Apostles --- we were not.

So, again you failed to meet the challenge.
 
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Concord1968

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It is irreverent because the OP changeling you to use only historical sources outside the Bible.
They were taught by the Apostles and as such represent what the early Church believed.

Merriam-Webster
irreverent
adjective

ir·rev·er·ent | \ i-ˈrev-rənt , ˌi(r)-, -ˈre-və-; -ˈre-vərnt\
Definition of irreverent

: lacking proper respect or seriousness

^^^^^ How is this in any way connected to how you're using the word.
 
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BobRyan

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I am pretty good at dismissing "ignore your Bible when vetting doctrine" challenges

I mentioned your no-Bible-just-ECF for doctrine idea to some of your fellow ECF-ers and they could not believe anyone was actually doing such a thing. Thankfully we have your threads here to demonstrate the reality of it.


ECF are historical sources that demonstrates how the Early Church understand the Bible and were taught directly by the Apostles


NT writers are historical sources that demonstrate how the Early Church understand the Bible and were taught directly by the Apostles.. and as Paul points out in Acts 20 - they are far more reliable, far more to be trusted than sources coming along 100's of years later.

Acts 20
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

No wonder Christ demonstrated the way to "hammer" supposedly holy-tradition of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai -- via "sola scriptura"

the Point remains.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Merriam-Webster
irreverent
adjective

ir·rev·er·ent | \ i-ˈrev-rənt , ˌi(r)-, -ˈre-və-; -ˈre-vərnt\
Definition of irreverent

: lacking proper respect or seriousness

^^^^^ How is this in any way connected to how you're using the word.

Oh, I was using the wrong word, sorry. I am often tired and did not catch the mistake of the spell check.

irrelevant
adjective
US /ɪˈrel·ə·vənt/

not related to what is being discussed or considered:
These documents(Bible Quotes) are totally irrelevant to the investigation or in this case discussion.
IRRELEVANT | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

Your approach is out of line with the OP asking for historical proof outside the Bible.

The ECF were taught by the Apostles making their writings relevant.
 
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