Biden denied Communion because of his stance on abortion

If Biden did receive communion we'd see an uproar from that too. People would be calling the Church hypocrites for not obeying their stance on abortion.

hedrick said:

This is the sort of thing Americans were afraid of when JFK was running. The fear that Catholic politicians would be controlled by the Pope has pretty much vanished now, because of course there's no evidence for it. But it's disquieting to see the attempt made.

Biden does not advocate abortion. He accepts the Catholic position. However he thinks it's improper for the US to enforce it by law, since most of our citizens aren't Catholics.

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...but that is not the Catholic position, is it?

A Realist said:

The "state" of the church and state is that they are separate.

And yet the words "Christian" or "Jesus" in not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution of the Declaration of Independence. Seems like the founders didn't think the way you thought they did.

It is freedom to worship as one chooses to worship.

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The founders and the Puritans are two separate groups, separated by over a century.

A Realist said:

.....only for those desire a theocracy.

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Supporting fairly basic statements about the Christian faith in the constitution does not equal theocracy. It does not equal the church controlling the state or vice versa.

Redwingfan9 said:

The founders and the Puritans are two separate groups, separated by over a century.

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The Puritans weren't the founders...that's the point....and I believe the great majority of this country wouldn't want the Puritans in control.

Redwingfan9 said:

Supporting fairly basic statements about the Christian faith in the constitution does not equal theocracy. It does not equal the church controlling the state or vice versa.

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Basic statements such as you suggest would negate the purpose of the first amendment to the constitution.

And at the end of the day, a religion can make whatever rule they pertaining to what makes one faithful. If Biden isn’t a fan, he can seek a new church or a new faith. I’m not a fan, that’s why I’m not Catholic.

A Realist said:

The Puritans weren't the founders...that's the point....and I believe the great majority of this country wouldn't want the Puritans in control.

Basic statements such as you suggest would negate the purpose of the first amendment to the constitution.

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You said that the founders didn't think the way I thought they did. I acknowledged as such, noting that the Purtains and founders are two separate groups. The founders were godless deists who created a christless state whose people have utterly abandoned Biblical Christianity such that when a church refuses communion to a vile politician due to his wicked political views people react with indignation and outrage.

That’s certainly one interpretation, I guess.

This is absolutely the right move. There are not politicians in my own Church (something about Egypt and Christian politicians...it's been tried in recent years since the end of the Mubarak regime, but it hasn't gone well), but if there were I would fully expect them to be denied communion if they publicly advocated things that were against the faith, as abortion very much is. I am glad to see the RCC stand up for the Christian faith. If Biden really cares so much about actually being Catholic instead of maybe only being seen to be Catholic, then he ought not publicly advocate for the murder of children (which is what advocating that abortion remain legal does, regardless of whatever his personal view is; he's trying to play both sides at the same time, and this is evidence that as far as his church is concerned, things do not work that way). Abortion is murder. That much is not complicated.

Tropical Wilds said:

That’s certainly one interpretation, I guess.

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...I'd call it wishful thinking, myself.

Redwingfan9 said:

.....such that when a church refuses communion to a vile politician due to his wicked political views people react with indignation and outrage.

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As for me, I could care less if they let Biden take communion or not. It's the fact that the priest sent an email to the local news rag reporting it that gives me pause.

Christianity has social consequences. How can Biden claim to be a Catholic when everything he does as a politician undermines the Catholic faith? He would be better off elsewhere.

What his priest did was absolutely the right thing. Now Nancy Pelosi needs to be refused communion along with all pro abortion Democrats.

hedrick said:

This is the sort of thing Americans were afraid of when JFK was running. The fear that Catholic politicians would be controlled by the Pope has pretty much vanished now, because of course there's no evidence for it. But it's disquieting to see the attempt made.

Biden does not advocate abortion. He accepts the Catholic position. However he thinks it's improper for the US to enforce it by law, since most of our citizens aren't Catholics.

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He should give up Catholicism and Christianity then.

hedrick said:

This is the sort of thing Americans were afraid of when JFK was running. The fear that Catholic politicians would be controlled by the Pope has pretty much vanished now, because of course there's no evidence for it. But it's disquieting to see the attempt made.

Biden does not advocate abortion. He accepts the Catholic position. However he thinks it's improper for the US to enforce it by law, since most of our citizens aren't Catholics.

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Hi Hedrick. I think there is some truth to what you’re saying however I do have some thoughts to consider. I think if one claims to be Roman Catholic then they should be informed and act as though they are Roman Catholic. If Rome teaches against abortion which she does I expect someone from that church to uphold said teaching even in our nation’s law. This compartmentalization of a candidate’s Faith is frankly absurd. Consider the following: suppose you are a candidate for office where you were required to uphold the death penalty for stealing widgets. While your church body on both the large sense and the parish (local) level taught that this is immoral and should be illegal. Would you as a member of this church argue against this body of law in your campaign and your legal philosophy compartmentalize your faith and uphold the laws you knew were to be immoral? Perhaps you would. I don’t know. If not that example why not substitute chattel slavery? I suppose at what point does your faith inform your overall philosophy of government? And if it does or does not why it why not? What is the point of such faith if it does not count when it matters on even the most thorny subjects?

my position is if your are a RC then I would expect you to govern as a RC. Same with a member of the PCUS.

Redwingfan9 said:

There is nothing wrong with having a nation declare itself to be Christian. That doesn't equal a state run church, it only means that as a nation we are Christian. That so many believers find this appalling says a lot about the state of both the church and state.

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Yes, there absolutely is something wrong with it. "Muslim nations" have Islamic policies. Do you think any unbeliever is going to look at that and think we promote religious freedoms for all of our people? We can't separate "Christian nation" and outlawing all other religions in the minds of our citizens because of all the crap Muslim nations have done to Christians.

The religious freedom people sought in America wasn't freedom for all religions, it was freedom for Christians.

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Because Christians were the people being prosecuted for heresy. If they were Jews, American would have been based on freedom for Jews.

Lady Bug said:

If Biden did receive communion we'd see an uproar from that too. People would be calling the Church hypocrites for not obeying their stance on abortion.

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No. It is news because the priest told him not to take Communion. Joe Biden taking Communion is like us doing it and would not have been known to the media.

GOD Shines Forth! said:

No, it's a Catholic thing.

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Meaning that Protestants haven't got the authority to deny communion?

GingerBeer said:

Meaning that Protestants haven't got the authority to deny communion?

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Great point. I think the rub is with some is the RCC has been woefully inconsistent with her application of church discipline. Which is a fair criticism. This comes up typically only during election cycles which I think is most of the pushback is coming from. Even though I believe it was the correct decision.

GACfan said:

According to his supporters, he shouldn't be judged for his sins. In fact, a few of his supporters will quickly respond with "Who among us is without sin?" or "Show us a perfect person" or "I voted for a President, not a Pastor" whenever his repeated immoral behavior is in question. However, this passive leniency toward Trump's sinful behavior is never extended to any Democrat by his supporters.

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Yes, well there is that to it. People say what's sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander but I think that in politics it is tribal like it is in religion. President Donald Trump is okay because he's "our guy" so twice divorced thrice married - which implies adultery - boasts about lewd conduct using lewd language is "locker room banter" and lying in public is "joking". On the other hand merely existing is a sin for any democrat contending for the presidency because they are "batting for the other team". Thus we can expect no rational thinking in the matter and no moral standards much less Christian standards to apply.

What good is faith without works? If you don't act on what you believe can you really claim to believe it?

Rabid individualism is the wicked stepchild of the Enlightenment and needs to be stomped out.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

GingerBeer said:

Meaning that Protestants haven't got the authority to deny communion?

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Frankly, I’ve never heard of it happening. Nonetheless, Paul simply warned the Corinthians to take stock and examine themselves since they were drinking too much and gluttoning at the meal. Back then, it was God who took care of the the errant congregants directly (some of them DIED).