Fantasy & Magic in Fiction

Jamdoc

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As someone who plays games, if I see witchcraft in terms of pentagrams, the devil...etc. I won't touch it. Or I will quit the game if I find it later on. I still may play game that has fictional magic. Not if it calls it spells or really seems to be more along the lines of witchcraft itself.

A good example of this is Thor has "magic" to humans. But he says its actually science. As in they are more advanced and its not actual magic. Just as if you brought a smartphone to someone from the 1900s, they would think you were a witch.

But it is a very thin line on if something is acceptable or not. I loved Lord of the Rings for example. But am 100% against Harry Potter. Some tell me "So you are a hypocrite! LOTR has a wizard and magic too!". And technically they are not wrong. However in my mind LOTR is fictional magic, Harry Potter is based on real witchcraft, just with a more fantastical view of it.

I find the subject to be hard to because you got super strict christians who are against any forms of magic because they think its all witchcraft. And then you got some who accept any form of magic, even if witchcraft based because "It's not real!" or "It won't harm anyone!".

Which I should add is another good point. I love LOTR but I don't go around with a staff pretending to make light appear from a staff. I don't pretend I can talk to animals for a ride. I don't act like I am Gandalf. Where on the other hand MANY know Harry Potter (and companies) spells by heart, what to say, how to move about the wand...etc.

If the subject you are talking about has you wanting to be part of it, then you should rethink the subject.
So here's a question, what if the game has depictions of witchcraft or outright satanism but they're clearly the adversaries of the game, like the Diablo or Doom series. Both revolve around fighting demons from Hell, Diablo in a fictional world completely separate from this one, Doom in a sci fi version of this world. You are never using them, but the imagery is there to show you just how evil your enemy is.
 
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Scann

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So here's a question, what if the game has depictions of witchcraft or outright satanism but they're clearly the adversaries of the game, like the Diablo or Doom series. Both revolve around fighting demons from Hell, Diablo in a fictional world completely separate from this one, Doom in a sci fi version of this world. You are never using them, but the imagery is there to show you just how evil your enemy is.
If not because of you sometimes have to use potions or teleport items that rely on demonic energy,I would have a fun time playing Doom and Doom 2 where you can blast away at the Satanic enemy using pure human-made weapons!I like that the same way you can open fire at enemies from a witch's coven in Return to Castle Wolfenstein.(I never played the latest Doom or Wolfenstein games yet.PC can't take it)
 
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Jamdoc

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If not because of you sometimes have to use potions or teleport items that rely on demonic energy,I would have a fun time playing Doom and Doom 2 where you can blast away at the Satanic enemy using pure human-made weapons!I like that the same way you can open fire at enemies from a witch's coven in Return to Castle Wolfenstein.(I never played the latest Doom or Wolfenstein games yet.PC can't take it)
Never really thought of health potions to be anything demonic, more apothecary/herbs in Diablo and well, just "modern" medicine in Doom. The teleporters that you sometimes step through in either game series I suppose you could have a point that you're walking through a portal created by demons to hunt them down. There are some troubling suggestions in Diablo I suppose as a whole like the nature of Angels and Demons and the Nephalim, but, I've always viewed them as 100% pure fiction with some real world inspiration in the sense that there are angels and demons but they have a different story for how each came to be that is not biblical, more generic fantasy than anything. But, I still enjoyed them because I got to fight the Devil, destroy his body, and then take a stone containing his soul and smash it into pieces. There is something satisfying in the thought that you can help destroy evil in a visceral sense.
Doom was a little more simple. Men were dumb, opened a portal to Hell on Mars, Demons came out, massacred most the people, and then you're a space machine gunning them down. There's no real devil or Satan in them... just "Demons". Ultimately neither have a lot of knowledge about real demons or theology it seems like laypeople who'd heard OF Demons but never read the bible imagined up some stuff that seemed cool and went with it. Pray for those developers that maybe they might learn the reality of things and read the Word, but I don't think they've sinned "extra hard" in making what they made. We all sin, every single day after all.
 
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timothyu

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In other words, just don't let fantasy master you. Which is why I said, it's just a story or a game.
It's called playing make believe. Kids and adults do it all the time yet oddly some adults overstep the boundaries and become delusional, especially when it comes to politics.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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So here's a question, what if the game has depictions of witchcraft or outright satanism but they're clearly the adversaries of the game, like the Diablo or Doom series. Both revolve around fighting demons from Hell, Diablo in a fictional world completely separate from this one, Doom in a sci fi version of this world. You are never using them, but the imagery is there to show you just how evil your enemy is.
I played all the Dooms up until the release where it was actually 3D about a decade ago. After that I stopped playing. It just made me uncomfortable. Sometimes in "hell" based games I may not mind it if you are the good guy. But still makes me unsure. Sort of a grey line area.
 
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Jamdoc

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I played all the Dooms up until the release where it was actually 3D about a decade ago. After that I stopped playing. It just made me uncomfortable. Sometimes in "hell" based games I may not mind it if you are the good guy. But still makes me unsure. Sort of a grey line area.
It is, the part that makes me uncomfortable is that the developers don't seem to have a real knowledge of the truth. They only know cartoon devils/demons and haven't really heard the Gospel, or well, hopefully they have, and they just chose to make a fictionalized version and universe to not get too deep into what real witchcraft and demons are, just cartoon demons that we can shoot and blow up. On the flip side is war based shooters where you kill people, which I think is worse in a way? But still all make believe so.. not the same as committing yourself to Satan at least.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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It is, the part that makes me uncomfortable is that the developers don't seem to have a real knowledge of the truth. They only know cartoon devils/demons and haven't really heard the Gospel, or well, hopefully they have, and they just chose to make a fictionalized version and universe to not get too deep into what real witchcraft and demons are, just cartoon demons that we can shoot and blow up. On the flip side is war based shooters where you kill people, which I think is worse in a way? But still all make believe so.. not the same as committing yourself to Satan at least.
I remember in one fo the Call of Duty games there was a mission called "No Russian". It made the news (and was optional) in which you were undercover as a russian bad guy. As you go into the airport you find out the guys with you are going to start opening fire on civilians. It's what COD games are known for, having morality choices that in some cases you may not have a choice in. If you don't skip the missions you empty your heavy machine gun into hundreds (if not more) of civilians at the airport.

Obviously many players were kids and parents were mad (though they ignored the rating on the game). Many adults were disturbed by the mission. Me? Not so much. I didn't enjoy killing civilians, but I knew it wasn't a real world. And in my head I realize if you are undercover, you had to do it or they would question if you were really a with them or not.

Now in real life I'd never go along with such a plan. Even if it meant possible death for my cover being blown. In the end I am less worried about killing someone in a game because its not real. Where as witchcraft in a game feels to close to real life. Granted killing people happens too. But I consider witchcraft/dark arts much more evil. It's the polar opposite of God.
 
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Jamdoc

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I remember in one fo the Call of Duty games there was a mission called "No Russian". It made the news (and was optional) in which you were undercover as a russian bad guy. As you go into the airport you find out the guys with you are going to start opening fire on civilians. It's what COD games are known for, having morality choices that in some cases you may not have a choice in. If you don't skip the missions you empty your heavy machine gun into hundreds (if not more) of civilians at the airport.

Obviously many players were kids and parents were mad (though they ignored the rating on the game). Many adults were disturbed by the mission. Me? Not so much. I didn't enjoy killing civilians, but I knew it wasn't a real world. And in my head I realize if you are undercover, you had to do it or they would question if you were really a with them or not.

Now in real life I'd never go along with such a plan. Even if it meant possible death for my cover being blown. In the end I am less worried about killing someone in a game because its not real. Where as witchcraft in a game feels to close to real life. Granted killing people happens too. But I consider witchcraft/dark arts much more evil. It's the polar opposite of God.
I wouldn't play a game where I was playing someone doing something truly evil. Like I've mentioned playing Diablo series games but I won't play Necromancer in them. Cause only God can resurrect the dead.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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I wouldn't play a game where I was playing someone doing something truly evil. Like I've mentioned playing Diablo series games but I won't play Necromancer in them. Cause only God can resurrect the dead.
Yeah. When Manhunt came out, you were some crazy guy that goes around and you control how you kill people. People called it a "snuff film" but in a game version. Not sure why anyone would play that. No redeeming qualities at all. Just murder for "fun" in cruel ways.
 
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timothyu

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It is hilarious people think true evil is what we see in books, games and movies. God said true evil is putting our will ahead of His, following self interests and gain at the expense of others. You know, the stuff the 10 C's and other commandments teach against. You want true evil? Look at the effects of mammon and politics. Turn on the news. Look in a mirror.
 
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Jamdoc

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Yeah. When Manhunt came out, you were some crazy guy that goes around and you control how you kill people. People called it a "snuff film" but in a game version. Not sure why anyone would play that. No redeeming qualities at all. Just murder for "fun" in cruel ways.
Assassin's Creed was ... I dunno the gameplay was interesting being able to crawl around and climb and parkour was interesting but the story was VERY troubling, and you were murdering sometimes for some really shady people. While it's still fiction it's fiction placed in a near future "real" world and directly references real religions, including the Adam and Eve creation story, giving it a spin where the Greek/Roman Gods were advanced aliens that seeded this world with life and made humans to be their slaves, and Adam and Eve stole the "apple" which was a mind control device that kept humans enslaved. It's a little on the nose, a little too close to Athiest ideas on biblical stories, and presents them in a way where maybe some people take the core message of "there is no God, it's all just a system to control mankind" too much to heart, and also makes God or in this case, Gods, to be not so benevolent and loving. It's a little where I draw the line on it. I didn't like where it was going narratively, although I really did enjoy climbing around on buildings in middle ages or renaissance cities. I understand, fiction, not real, but I worry that it'll make other people think about these things and be more susceptible to coming up with athiest ideations for reals.
 
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Amittai

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... I read Lord of the Rings. I would not do that again, neither did I see the movie. We need to be led by the Spirit. All things are lawful, not all things are edifying.

To me, the aesthetics of Tolkien gave me the creeps, except the maps. I think the film versions have made it far worse.

I "made" Mum buy a 20 pound clock instead of the 16 pound one because of its elegance. Years later she said to me, "I've always been so glad you made me buy that clock" - she had much the same sensibilities. I used to get intensely interested in the choice of new wallpaper, in my teens.

We each have our gifts & senses!
 
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Amittai

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...

Have you ever read anything from R.A. Salvatore in regards to the Drow Drizzt? Love those books! ... Drizzt Do'Urden's stories are set in the Forgotten Realms campaign setting for Dungeons & Dragons. The character has been a mainstay for author R. A. Salvatore, appearing in his novels for over 20 years. ... His unusual personality creates the conflict that allows Salvatore to create so many novels with stories about courage and friendship. ...

I feel like I was a "character" (a figment) on the set of something like Dungeons & Dragons * for 28 years - the way some religious movements set you up for situation after situation.

( * I wasn't ever into the standard one)
 
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Amittai

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... I didn't enjoy killing civilians *, but I knew it wasn't a real world. And in my head I realize if you are undercover, you had to do it or they would question if you were really a with them or not.

Now in real life I'd never go along with such a plan. Even if it meant possible death for my cover being blown. In the end I am less worried about killing someone in a game because its not real. Where as witchcraft in a game feels to close to real life. Granted killing people happens too. But I consider witchcraft/dark arts much more evil. It's the polar opposite of God.

[ * fictional concept in context]

Witchcraft means sleight of hand while various actions have been destructive of society's fabric, that's very nearly the same. Even us English always did have to be on our guard at the personal level.
 
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JesseBassett

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In my honest opinion, reading/watching/playing fantasy games and shows and books is harmless. I say this because it allows a thing called imagination. Which is perfectly healthy. It only becomes dangerous when after reading those type of novels, or watching the shows, movies, etc. one begins to dabble in the occult. If you can keep fact from fiction separate, it is harmless fun.
 
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Amittai

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I agree with you Jesse though I think we learn by gut feeling whether what I suppose is the metaphysical basis suits us.

I didn't know that word as an infant but my subconscious feeling of metaphysics was very close to my aesthetics all along.

The first few episodes of Dr Who (in B & W) were huge fun because one time he would be on a planet with aliens with cardboard boxes over their heads, then in the Gobi with Marco Polo, then with the Romans.

Most of the slimy stuff we are served up is "trying too hard" i.e over-produced and gives me the creeps, and would have when younger too.

At age 9 I borrowed a story book at school with vaguely medieval knights in "hose" and speaking unicorns. Then there was both Treece and Trease.

The Alice stories are a satire on the politics, theology and advanced maths of the day.

Of Edith Nesbit's, I always liked the Bastable series far more than those considered more prominent.

So for me the light touch has always appealed because I am walking imagination itself.

Every fictional novel is a fantasy. I still marvel at Dickens, Mark Twain, Mazo de la Roche, Hugh Walpole.
 
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