The tribulation will be worldwide

Dave Watchman said: ↑
Right now i have the hope that, while it will be the worst time since there ever was a nation, no, nor ever shall be, I think it's going to be fast. Behold you will have tribulation for ten days.
"Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
So while i fear it to be extremely bad, i don't think we'll need to hide under the table with seven years worth of Doritos.

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keras said:

This is about the most fanciful and unbiblical idea of what will happen at the end times, as I have ever seen.
How and when do you get the white robes', DW? Before or after any Judgement?

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Dave Watchman said:

Think i'm smokin the wacky tabacky?

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LittleLambofJesus said:

Either that or both of ya'll have

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keras said:

So the end was not then at all, as you seem to like it to be. Looking at the world situation today, esp in the Middle East; this 'end' - of the world as we know it, really will be soon.

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LittleLambofJesus said:

Ok..............

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Quasar92 said:

Who will survive the Tribulation?The Tribulation is referred to by Christians as the last 7 years of history before Jesus returns to rule earth. During this time period the Antichrist will come to power, and there will be many natural (and unnatural) disasters, wars, famines, etc. I believe this time is coming very quickly - we can already see some previews in the natural disasters the world has experienced the last few years. But many people do not seem to be worried. Or they expect that they will be one of the lucky few who survive - just like in the movies. But is this a realistic expectation? What are the actual chances of surviving the Tribulation? Here I will attempt to guess at that number, and see what it means for you personally.Number of Deaths per JudgementMost of the disasters which happen during the Tribulation are listed in the book of Revelation. I have already gone into more detail on each disaster in my article here, so for reference you may wish to read that article first. Below I will list each judgement and list how many the Bible says die from it. Then we'll see what percent of the earth's population is left over. I will assume a world population of 7 billion people at the starting point.Seal JudgementsThe Antichrist appears (Revelation 6:1-2): 0 deaths

1. The beast out of the sea, the Antichrist is revealed
2. Worldwide war. (Revelation 6:3-4): unknown
3. Economic collapse. (Revelation 6:5-6): unknown
4. Death (famine, disease, crime, animal attacks). (Revelation 6:7-8): 1/4 of the world's population = 1.75 billion deaths
5. Martyrs cry out. (usually interpreted as Antichrist killing Christians) (Revelation 6:9-11): unknown
6. Earthquake which moves mountains and islands, multiple meteor strikes. (Revelation 6:12-14): unknown
7. Silence in heaven. (Revelation 8:1-5): 0 deaths
8. Trumpet Judgements
   1. 1/3 of earth, trees, and plants burned. (Revelation 8:7): unknown
   2. Asteroid impact in ocean - kills 1/3 of sea life and poisons 1/3 of ocean. (Revelation 8:8): unknown
   3. Asteroid impact which poisons 1/3 of fresh water. (Revelation 8:10-11): "Many people died because the water was so bitter" (unknown)
   4. Reduction of sun, moon, and starlight by 1/3. (Revelation 8:12): 0 deaths
   5. Release of supernatural "locusts" (probably demons) which torment people for 5 months. (Revelation 9:1-11): 0 deaths
   6. Deaths of people caused by 200 million war horses and fire, smoke, and sulfur: possibly nuclear war. (Revelation 9:13-19): 1/3 of remaining world's population = 1.75 billion deaths
   7. Earthquake, hail, lightning, thunder. (Revelation 11:19): unknown
   8. Bowl Judgements
      1. Painful sores for people with Mark of the Beast. (Revelation 16:1-2): 0 deaths
      2. All sea life dies, all oceans become like blood. (Revelation 16:3): unknown
      3. All rivers and streams become like blood. (Revelation 16:4): unknown
      4. Sun intensifies and scorches people. (Revelation 16:8): 0 deaths
      5. Darkness on Antichrist's kingdom, painful sores on people. (Revelation 16:10): 0 deaths
      6. River Euphrates dries up, battle of Armageddon. (Revelation 16:12-16): unknown
      7. Worst earthquake of all history, 100 pound hailstones. (Revelation 16:17-21): unknown
      8. Out of all these judgements, the Bible only mentions 1/4 of the world's population dying in Seal #4, and 1/3 of the remaining world population dies in Trumpet #6. Put together, these two judgements alone kill 3.5 billion people (50% of today's world population). This is equivalent to the entire countries of China, India, and the United States

[1], plus still 1 billion other people. Already, the chances of surviving these two judgements is less than 50%.

Estimates for Various DisastersThis 3.5 billion calculated above does not count the many other deaths which are not given numerical values. I will place some estimates here for the judgements where the number of deaths are not listed.Various WarsThe wars in Seal #2 may possibly include the Gog-Magog war which says it will take Israel 7 months to bury all of the dead foreign soldiers (Ezekiel 29:12). The Battle of Armageddon will be the largest in history and will involve European as well as Asian forces. I would guess probably at least a few million solders, and they basically all get wiped out when Jesus returns with his saints and angels (Revelation 19:21). So if you manage to avoid being drafted during these wars, maybe you have a better chance at surviving these battles. Starvation Many of the judgments will make it hard to find food and water. The destruction of sea life in Trumpet #2 and Bowl #2, freshwater life in Trumpet #3 and Bowl #3 will make it impossible to eat seafood, and the turning of sea and lake water to blood will probably make it hard or impossible to irrigate crops. I suspect they may invent a form of distillation which will make some water drinkable since people cannot survive more than 3 days without water, and life goes on for at least a few years under these conditions. However, it will probably be expensive and the poorest people will probably die from starvation or thirst. In Trumpet #3 it says many people die from the "bitter" water. In my article here, I suspect some water may be contaminated with sulphuric acid from a meteor strike.

The sun is also darkened by 1/3 in Trumpet #4 - this would again make it more difficult to grow crops. The economic collapse in Seal #3 would probably lead to at least some deaths from people who cannot afford to buy food.Currently in our world where things are going relatively well, 36 million people die each year of starvation [2]. In the Tribulation, this number will probably double or triple. If we assume say 70 million people per year die from lack of food in the Tribulation, that would total another 490 million deaths over 7 years. Our total is now up to around 4 billion deaths.Christian MartyrsThere are still all the Christian Martyrs to be accounted for. Beginning in Seal #5 the Antichrist will probably start to kill off the Christians who resist him. The beast (the Antichrist) "was allowed to fight against God's people and defeat them." (Revelation 13:7). Also "Everyone who refused to worship the idol of the beast was put to death."(Revelation 13:15). We know these people who refused to worship the Beast were Christians because "I also saw the souls of the people who had their heads cut off because they had told about Jesus and preached God's message. They were the same one who had not worshiped the beast or the idol, and they had refused to let its mark be put on their hands or foreheads."(Revelation 20:4). John sees a vision of a "large crowd with more people than could be counted, from every race, tribe, nation, and language" (Revelation 7:9) in heaven who had "gone through the great suffering and washed their robes in the blood of the lamb"(Revelation 7:14).Currently there are 2 billion people on earth who identify as Christian or Catholic [3]. A portion of those will be Raptured before the Tribulation.

Unfortunately, it will probably not even be 50%. According to Barna, only 9% of American "Christians" actually have a Biblical worldview [4]. This group only had to meet a few criteria: "defined as believing that absolute moral truth exists; the Bible is totally accurate in all of the principles it teaches; Satan is considered to be a real being or force, not merely symbolic; a person cannot earn their way into Heaven by trying to be good or do good works; Jesus Christ lived a sinless life on earth; and God is the all-knowing, all-powerful creator of the world who still rules the universe today."[4]. This is just the most basic outline of Christianity, yet only 9% of Americans (supposedly a "Christian nation") are actually Christian in their beliefs!. So there will most likely be plenty of people left on earth after the Rapture who thought they were Christian, yet were Christian in name only. Perhaps the Rapture will wake them up and they will take their faith more seriously, and will probably have a high chance of being martyred for it. There will also be many new Christian converts during the Tribulation.Let's assume that perhaps 30% of the left-behind Christians wake up and are martyred for their faith (the rest will probably follow the Antichrist and the false world religion - Revelation 13:8-15), and perhaps gain an extra 15% of new converts. That's 200 million raptured (10%) and so we are left with 1.8 billion "Christians" after the Rapture. Only 30% keep their faith (540 million), and 15% new converts (270 million) = 810 million Christians. Let's assume not all of them die - perhaps 5% (40 million) of these will escape the Antichrist and survive the 7 year Tribulation. This gives us a total of 770 million Christian martyrs. This would certainly match the "crowd too large to be counted" that John saw in his vision. These numbers are just my estimates, and there could be a larger number who are Raptured, or a larger number who convert after the Rapture.Various DisastersAlready, we are at 4.76 of 7 billion people dead during the Tribulation.

For the complete article:

The tribulation is world wide in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar92

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Quasar92 said: ↑
Who will survive the Tribulation?The Tribulation is referred to by Christians as the last 7 years of history before Jesus returns to rule earth. During this time period the Antichrist will come to power, and there will be many natural (and unnatural) disasters, wars, famines, etc. I believe this time is coming very quickly - we can already see some previews in the natural disasters the world has experienced the last few years

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Contenders Edge said:

There is no doubt that the tribulation will be worldwide and the reason for His return is because things during the tribulation are going to be so catastrophic and terrible that if He does not return, all life will perish. (Mt 24:22) His second coming is for the sake of those who believe on His name and in spite of the horrific persecution against the saints during that time and the attempted destruction of the nation of Israel, God will not leave Himself without a people.

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1. *
   Regional Israel and Jerusalem
   4 vote(s)
   57.1%
2. Global Worldwide
   2 vote(s)
   28.6%
3. *
   Both. It is regional but affects the wolrd
   2 vote(s)
   28.6%
4. I don't know
   0 vote(s)
   0.0%
5. Other
   0 vote(s)
   0.0%

LittleLambofJesus said:

Why would Jesus tell the Jews to flee Judea if it was worldwide?
70AD Jerusalem is showing in Revelation 18.......where is rapture in Revelation?

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:16 those in Judea flee

Philippians 3:2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the circumcision!

2 Corin 6:17 wherefore come-forth<exelqete 1831> out<1537> of midst of them! and be being separated! is saying Lord

Revelation 18:4 And I hear another Voice out of the heaven saying "come forth!<exelqete 1831> out of Her My people......................

Matt 24 and Revelation global or regional

1. *
   Regional Israel and Jerusalem
   4 vote(s)
   57.1%
2. Global Worldwide
   2 vote(s)
   28.6%
3. *
   Both. It is regional but affects the wolrd
   2 vote(s)
   28.6%
4. I don't know
   0 vote(s)
   0.0%
5. Other
   0 vote(s)
   0.0%

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Contenders Edge said:

If the tribulation was not worldwide, wh would Jesus say that except that those days be shortened that all flesh would perish? (Mt. 24:22) Jerusalem does not contain all life on earth. And how is it that the tribulation is described as a time more terrible than anything else that came before or will come afterward? (Mt. 24:21) More people died in the great flood which covered the entire earth than in the siege of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and yet the tribulation is going to bring more horror than Noah's flood.

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LittleLambofJesus said:

Those days were shortened......
It only took the Romans five months to take Jerusalem.............[the same amount of time the flood covered the earth Genesis 7:24 And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days. ]
Revelation 9:5
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Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24
19 And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck in those days;
22 And if those days were not shortened, no flesh would have been saved; but because of the chosen, shall those days be shortened
Mark 13
17“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
20 and if the Lord did not shorten the days, no flesh had been saved; but because of the chosen, whom He did choose to Himself, He did shorten) the days.
Luke 21:
22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen. In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ; and had actually eaten one half thereof, when the soldiers, allured by tile smell of food, threatened her with instant death if she refused to discover it. 'Intimidated by this menace, she immediately produced the remains of her son, which petrified them with horror.
. At the recital of this melancholy and affecting occurrence, the whole city stood aghast, and poured forth their congratulations on those whom death had hurried away from such heartrending scenes. [Revelation 9:6]

...............This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A.D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.
Before their final demolition, however, Titus took a survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"
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Revelation 9:5 And was given to them that not they should be killing them, but that they should be being tormented five months
And the torment of them as torment of a scorpion, whenever it should be striking a man;

Revelation 9:6 And in those days the men shall be seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
and shall be desiring/yearning<1937> to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.
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Contenders Edge said:

How was this more terrible than anything else to ever come upon the earth? How was the siege at Jerusalem worse than a flood that destroyed all of humanity except for Noah and his family? Furthermore, the days of the forthcoming Jerusalem that Jesus said must be shortened are going to be longer than the siege of Jerusalem and the siege against Jerusalem did not threaten all life on earth like the tribulation will.

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LittleLambofJesus said:

Daniel 12:1 doesn't say the whole world, but the nation of Israel, which consisted of the Northern Kingdom of Israel and the Southern Kingdom of Judah, both of those in the land of Israel.

So how do you get the whole global world out of Dan 12 and Luke 21?

The word "TRIBULATION" does not occur in Luke's Gospel.

Daniel 12:1
"And in that time/season, Michael shall stand-up, the great chief prince, the one standing over sons of thy people. And becomes a time of distress<06869>, which not occurred since to become of a nation until that time.
And in that time, thy people escape<4422>, everyone being found written in the scroll. [Luke 21:23-36]

Notice the Land of Israel/Judah, not the world..............

Luke 21:
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.

36 “Yet be being vigilant/watching in every season, beseeching that ye should be being strong to be escaping<1628> all these, the being about to be becoming, and to stand before the Son of the Man.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them,
as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape<1628>.
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The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

The dead bodies of priests and worshippers, both natives and foreigners were heaped together, and a lake of blood stagnated in the sacred courts. John of Gischala, who headed one of the factions, burnt storehouses full of provisions ; and Simon, his great antagonist, who headed another of them, soon afterwards followed his example. Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength.

At this critical and alarming c onjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman an army was approaching the city. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity :- nothing was to be heard but "the confused noise of the warrior, " -- nothing to be seen but garments rolled in blood," -- nothing to be expected from the Romans but signal and exemplary vengeance.

Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance ; and, according to Josephus this event took place suddenly ; thus, not only fulfilling the predictions of our LORD, that these calamities should come, like the swift-darting lightning" that cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the West," and " as a snare on all of them (the Jews) who dwelt upon the face of the whole earth " (Matt. xxiv. 27, and Luke xxi 35,)
but justifying, also, his friendly direction, that those who fled from the place should use the utmost possible expedition.
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