Future New World Order One World Government...in the Bible?

Is a future NWO biblical?

  • No

    Votes: 13 37.1%
  • Yes

    Votes: 20 57.1%
  • I don't know what that is

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 2 5.7%

  • Total voters
    35

jerry kelso

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Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

baberean2,

1. That has nothing to do with the subject we are talking about.
Jerry Kelso
 
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BABerean2

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baberean2,

1. That has nothing to do with the subject we are talking about.
Jerry Kelso


Were you talking about future Holy days?


Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

.
 
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jerry kelso

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Were you talking about future Holy days?


Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

.

baberean2,

1. There are 7 feasts in total associated by the time of Christ first coming.
They are:
a). Passover
b). Unleavened Bread
c). First fruits
d). Day of Pentecost fulfilled on the DOP.
These are the spring feasts
Today we live in the DOP known as the grace of God or the Dispensation of the Grace Of God.

2. The last three feasts are the fall feasts which are prophetic.
They are:
a). Feast of Trumpets-Rapture of the Church
b). Feast of Atonement- Tribulation of the time of Jacob’s trouble
c). Feast of Tabernacles Millennial kingdom.
The order cannot be changed.

3. Colossians 2:16-17 is a separate context.
The law was to be forever for Israel under the New Covenant.
The Mosaic Law was abolished at Calvary and is not in effect for the church.
This is why we are not to be judged according to meat or drink, or in respect of a holy day or the moon days or any of the Jewish sabbaths.

4. They are a shadow of things to come in the millennial kingdom.
Law will be established in the kingdom in Jerusalem Isaiah 2:1-5.
Part will be certain laws from the Old as well as the New.
5. The feasts were eternal feasts that we’re instituted Exodus 16 before the Mosaic law on Sinai Exodus 20.
Even the nations will come up to Israel to commemorate the feasts Zechariah 14.

6. These are two separate contexts with two separate purposes.
The feasts are God’s time clock of his redemptive plan. Keeping holidays , meat and drink have nothing to do with a prophetic time clock as such. Jerry Kelso
 
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BABerean2

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4. They are a shadow of things to come in the millennial kingdom.
Law will be established in the kingdom in Jerusalem Isaiah 2:1-5.
Part will be certain laws from the Old as well as the New.

Please show us the mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.



.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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BABerean2 said:
Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
jerry kelso said:
baberean2,

1. God has a divine order such as Prophet, Priest and King or Justification, Sanctification and Glorification.
BABerean2 said:
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
jerry kelso said:
baberean2,
1. That has nothing to do with the subject we are talking about.
Jerry Kelso
BABerean2 said:
Were you talking about future Holy days?

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
baberean2,

1. There are 7 feasts in total associated by the time of Christ first coming.
They are:
a). Passover
b). Unleavened Bread
c). First fruits
d). Day of Pentecost fulfilled on the DOP.
These are the spring feasts
Today we live in the DOP known as the grace of God or the Dispensation of the Grace Of God.

2. The last three feasts are the fall feasts which are prophetic.
They are:
a). Feast of Trumpets-Rapture of the Church
b). Feast of Atonement- Tribulation of the time of Jacob’s trouble
c). Feast of Tabernacles Millennial kingdom.
The order cannot be changed.

3. Colossians 2:16-17 is a separate context.
The law was to be forever for Israel under the New Covenant.
The Mosaic Law was abolished at Calvary and is not in effect for the church.
This is why we are not to be judged according to meat or drink, or in respect of a holy day or the moon days or any of the Jewish sabbaths.

4. They are a shadow of things to come in the millennial kingdom.
Law will be established in the kingdom in Jerusalem Isaiah 2:1-5.
Part will be certain laws from the Old as well as the New.
5. The feasts were eternal feasts that we’re instituted Exodus 16 before the Mosaic law on Sinai Exodus 20.
Even the nations will come up to Israel to commemorate the feasts Zechariah 14.

6. These are two separate contexts with two separate purposes.
The feasts are God’s time clock of his redemptive plan. Keeping holidays , meat and drink have nothing to do with a prophetic time clock as such. Jerry Kelso
There is a thread on that.........Only the Jews have to keep them until they come to Christ............

Are the feast days fulfilled?
Jesus said concerning Passover do this in remembrance of me

The days come when nations will observe tabernacles

Are there other feast that will continue to be observed?
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi LittleLambofJesus,

Interesting topic. I have been writing about that just now in a new series in my blogs. `The Final Stages of the Global Government.` Then the next series will be, `God`s word revealing the Global Government.`

Here is a little detail that most people don`t realise -


The International Monetary Fund. (IMF)

This is to become the world currency bank. Under this scheme the IMF would be charged with regulating a new global currency.

Collaborating with the World Bank, the IMF would use this new currency for international loans and debt obligations. National and regional currencies would still exist, at least for the interim, but values would react and adjust according to the new global benchmarks.

The designing of a world currency has been worked on for many years by the United Future World Currency Project. They have presented their prototype coins to the G7/8 a few years ago and are just waiting for the main mints in different countries to get ready for the printing.

upload_2019-10-29_9-21-13.png



The coin on the front has the numeral `1` repeated five times in subtle layers which represent the five inhabited continents.

The coin also includes five stars and carries the inscription of `Unity in Diversity,` which is the basic idea behind the concept.


upload_2019-10-29_9-22-1.png



The back of the coin has the `Tree of Life,` with five different kinds of leaves, each leaf can be found on all five continents.

The inscription reads `United Future World Currency`

The coins were struck in the Royal Belgium Mint by the Chief engraver who also designed the Euro coin.



Interesting, ay? Marilyn.
 
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jerry kelso

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Please show us the mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46

.

baberean2,

1. This has to do with the judgement of gentile nations and their treatment to the Jewish nation.
There will be unsaved people to be permitted to live and go through the millennium because they will keep the outward laws of the government, but in their hearts they will be rebellious against the government Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:2-4; 11:3-5; 16:5; 65:20; Psalm 2:6-9; Micah 4:3; Zechariah 14:16-21; 1 Corinthians 15:24-28; Revelation 20:7-10.
There will be many executed because of committing sins worthy of death ( Isaiah 11:3-5; 16:5; 65:20).
Dake’s God’s plan for man pg. 964; 11. Will there be laws for the subjects of the kingdom? 2nd and 3rd paragraphs.
Plenty of morals.
Satan has to have somebody to deceive at the last confrontation at the end of the 1000 years Revelation 20:7-10. Jerry Kelso
 
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BABerean2

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Satan has to have somebody to deceive at the last confrontation at the end of the 1000 years Revelation 20:7-10. Jerry Kelso

Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine, of modern Dispensational Theology, would be a part of those deceived. It is a form of Dual Covenant Theology, based on race. However, nobody has given us the DNA standard of those involved.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.


.
 
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thesacredcowtipper,

1. First, I believe in proper exegesis which is not surface reading of the scriptures or coming up with presuppositions.
With that statement you have started on the wrong foot.
I also believe in Bible hermeneutics which is about rightly dividing the word 2 Timothy 2:15.

2. There are great Christian scholars on both sides of different issues whether it’s about eternal security unconditional or conditional or the rapture Pre-, Mid, or Post.
To be honest etc. statement doesn’t hold water. Now both of your feet are shot.

3. Pre-trib rapture demonic? Why? Because you believe that it will make Christians fall away from God if it doesn’t happen? We are to occupy until he comes and we are to be ready to give our lives for the cause of Christ. All the apostles except John were martyred.
Paul said in Romans 8:36; As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
1 Corinthians 15:30; And why stand we in Jeopardy every hour? V31; I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus, I die daily.
2 Corinthians 4:11; For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh v 12; So then death workers in us, but life in you.
2 Timothy 2:12; if we suffer we shall reign.
There are people in many countries that are martyred and always has been that way. Read Hebrews 11:35-38.
The deception theory about the pre-trib rapture came to the forefront because of opposition to the Left Behind series.
What rapture position you believe should not effect your salvation.
Matthew 24:22 tells how bad the tribulation will be that God will shorten it otherwise no flesh should be saved.
It could be argued spiritually as much as physically of losing one life because of the pressure.
The point is, to say it’s demonic is opinion and conjecture not scripture.
To be ready at all times and be ready to give your life if it comes to that is biblical. So you are wrong again.

4. The whole Bible is for us in the proper perspective. If you believe the Old Testament is of no value to the church you won’t be able to harmonize or really understand the New Testament. There are still Old Testament prophecies that have not been fulfilled yet and will be in the New Testament and are mentioned in the New Testament. The Old Testament concealed is the New Testament revealed.
We are to be like the Bereans to see if what they say is true.
You might ought to talk to baberean2 who is always pushing his videos of his teachers who make up stuff about dispensationalists etc.
So far reading what you’ve posted I don’t think you qualify for judging and accusing that I don’t study myself because I’m into respect of persons of who I think is a great teacher or scholar. Talk about superficial on your part.

5. Parousia means personal coming or appearance. It is used for both the rapture and the second coming.
Harpazo is transporting people from one place to another especially Heaven. It is referred to as rapture.

6. The church will be raptured Revelation 4:1; be judged for our works either in the middle of the tribulation or near the end in Heaven Revelation 11:18.
We will still be in Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb Revelation 19:7-10; verse 11 the saints will come out of Heaven to go to Armageddon Revelation 11:15. There is no post trib rapture.

7. At the rapture Christ doesn’t appear visibly to earth but comes in the air and to catch up those alive and who remain to meet the dead in Christ who come with him from Heaven.
The rapture is a New Testament doctrine that the Old Testament people didn’t know about. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:52 shows it is a mystery.
The second coming known as the Day of the Lord was understood by the Old Testament Saints and wasn’t a mystery.
They never saw the New Testament church lot alone the rapture of the church.
The Lord doesn’t stay in the air during the tribulation and then complete a second stage to come to earth to be among men.
He takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God (John 14:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 3:13; 4:16-17).

8. The shout and the trump etc. is for the churches ears to hear. Don’t put God in a box.
And I don’t know why you keep making a big deal about secrecy.
The Bible says the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night and yet if you read Revelation 16:16 which is Armageddon and if the person knows the story they ought to know it doesn’t sound very secretive.
We are to be looking for that Blessed Hope and lay aside the sin that so easily besets is cause the the cloud of witnesses are waving us home.
Even if it was secretive it wouldn’t be for long when cars start crashing and people are caught up while walking and clothes are left behind and it catches on to the news and people are Hearts are failing with fear etc.

9. I have to go to bed but suffice to say your exegesis was totally wrong and not scriptural.
And those who fell from grace because they believed God’s word failed didn’t know the word and must have not had much root and backbone and willingness to count the cost and carry their cross daily even in martyrdom.
The Bible says no one knows the day or hour. This is the problem of date setters.
I believe in pre trib rapture but that doesn’t make me worried about going through it if I had to. We have to be cemented in Christ the solid rock forever not tossed about with ever wind of doctrine which the devil tries to use to steal, Kill, And destroy our lives. But we need to be sold out to God and occupy till he comes not give up.
So yes, I have debunked your wrong scriptural exegesis and your wrong unscriptural thinking about making people fall away. Either you are for God all the way or you just fall from Grace. Jerry Kelso
 
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Hi Jerry,
I noticed you are unwilling to answer my ONE question as Ice and thousands of others refuse to try. I feel like I am talking to Hebrew Roots people sometimes but on a different topic. Why? When it comes down to it, I ask them one simple question, "Is the apostle Paul a false prophet?" I finally had one seething with hostility say yes, and only two others answered me and said Peter said Paul said hard things to understand and you non-hebrew roots people just don't get it. But the many tohers were unwilling to answer it.

You threw out a lot of red herrings but refuse to answer the pre-trib rapture challenge question. I'm okay with you believing in a pre-trib rapture. I know you are 1,000% wrong (that's how sure I am of it being false) as it is eisogesis and I have easily shown it isn't true. But you sound pretty sound in the faith so a pre-trib rapture not happening probably will not effect you. But the countless lukewarm Christians who are banking on it, had they known it was a false doctrine, may have searched their hearts to make sure they are right with God and then would have the strength to not be deceived and the strength to endure great persecution. Jesus said He personally would spit out the lukewarm. Do you believe this? How about answering my question? Is it because like I said it creates an obvious logical fallacy and God's word cannot lie? The underlying Greek brings out everything I am saying also. God Bless brother! Just sharpening people's iron out there. WE need to question all this end times stuff. It is very different than what the early church taught and what the Protestant Reformers beleived. It is a new-fangled thing.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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The above posts are taken from another thread, so I decided to start this thread.

Is a future NWO needed to fulifill Bible Prophecy?
If you vote, please give reasons for the way you voted.....thanks

I voted no because I view 1st century Jerusalem in Revelation...........
=======================
The New World Order NWO | Endtime Ministries with Irvin Baxter

The New World Order (NWO)
World Government Forming Now!

The prophesied one-world government is being formed on earth at this very time. The Bible prophesies that the Antichrist will ultimately reign over this world government for three-and-one-half years just prior to the Second Coming of Jesus to establish His own world government.

SBL Publications

'Left Behind' No More? An Evangelical Preterist Interpretation of Revelation in 'The Last Disciple' series
Margaret E. Ramey

Biblical interpreters have found a new arena for fighting—fiction! Because novels are easily accessible and understandable, they can function as powerful propaganda tools for swaying the masses. We need mention only The DaVinci Code as one example of the effect that fiction can have on reshaping the image of Jesus in the public square. The battle currently being waged, however, is over eschatology rather than Christology, and the two opposing groups come not from different theological parties but from the same evangelical camp.

Most are already aware of Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins' Left Behind series, which espouses a premillennial dispensationalism popular within modern American evangelicalism. The novels are set in the not-so-distant future and begin with the rapture of all the "real Christians." The characters who have been "left behind" then experience a seven-year tribulation during which the post-rapture Christian converts rally forces against the antichrist and try to withstand various wars, plagues, and famines that take place prior to Christ's return and his thousand-year reign of peace on the earth.

Many, however, may not have heard of the newer Last Disciple series written by Hank Hanegraaff, better known in evangelical circles as the Bible Answer Man and as the president of the Christian Research Institute, and Sigmund Brouwer to intentionally counter Left Behind's eschatology with a preterist interpretation of Revelation and other apocalyptic writings.[1] Unlike futurist positions, such as the one seen in the Left Behind series, the preterist position is a historical one, which advocates that Revelation should primarily be understood as a letter written to churches in the first century C.E. Insisting that context should determine its meaning, interpreters locate Revelation's symbols and prophecies within the first century rather than transposing them onto later time periods. In the Last Disciple series, we see this commitment to interpreting Revelation via its historical context first and foremost in the fact that the novels are historical fiction rather than futuristic fantasy as are the Left Behind novels. From the first page of the trilogy, its preterist position is made clear by the designation of its setting as "ten months after the beginning of the tribulation" (65 C.E.; Last Disciple, 1).

At first glance, Hanegraaff'snovels appear to be worlds apart from their fictional, evangelical cousins (and according to their settings, they literally are). The eschatologies dramatized through these novels are vastly divergent, as we shall see through exploring the preterism of the Last Disciple series, but what turns out to be most striking about this new series is not its differences but its similarities with the Left Behind novels that arise from several hermeneutical assumptions regarding prophecy and symbols.==================


Conclusion

While Hanegraaff is not above the literalism of interpretation seen in the Left Behind series, his work still has much to recommend it. In comparison with LaHaye's novels, his series provide a more balanced interpretation of Revelation that takes both the genre and the historical context of the letter seriously. He stresses the need to locate the letter within its first century context and lets readers vicariously experience one possible, if extremely far-fetched, scenario of how the first recipients would have experienced it. In addition, he recognizes the function of apocalyptic literature, which is to fortify the faithful in the midst of oppression by providing a heavenly perspective on their current situation. Finally, he interacts with some of the best of biblical scholarship when he highlights the anti-imperial nature of the letter's symbols.

Hanegraaff provides a helpful counterbalance within evangelicalism to the predominant premillinial dispensationalism encapsulated in the Left Behind series. Most importantly, he attempts to shift the evangelical focus from rapture to resurrection. Hanegraaff states on his website: "In our view the great and glorious hope of believers is not found in rapture but in the blessed hope of resurrection."[13] If nothing else, perhaps his readers will be encouraged to re-center their faith on what has historically been the hope of Christianity rather than remain captivated by this more recent fixation on being left behind.

I've generally liked to listen to and read Hanegraaff's radio show and books over the years, just as I do a wide spectrum of Christian viewpoints, and with that being said I'll just briefly say, too, that I'm more prone to see Apocaplytic material in the Bible from a more generally Historicist, Pre-millenial viewpoint, but with a few nods to some of the things I feel I've learned from both Preterist of various stripes as well as from some Dispensationalist.

Sure, there may be a World Order a'coming, but I don't think it's 'NEW' and I don't think its going to be or come in exactly the form that we think it will. Some things may yet surprise us ....... not that I want to be surprised mind you since none of us really does, but it likely won't all happen in ways by which we can just pull out our Bibles and start interpreting like we're playing a card game of "Match the Kings, Queens and Jacks."

Anyway, thanks for the article. It's interesting reading. :cool:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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LittleLambofJesus said:
I voted no because I view 1st century Jerusalem in Revelation...........
1st century Jerusalem in Revelation is fine.
Today, the nwo is bigger than ever before ....
Nice............
I just created a new thread on it if any are interested:

What great city is symbolized in Reve 11:2-8 and Reve 18?

Is 70AD Jerusalem in Revelation [poll is from another thread which was closed]
  1. *
    Yes
    7 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. No
    14 vote(s)
    50.0%
  3. Maybe
    1 vote(s)
    3.6%
  4. Other [please explain]
    5 vote(s)
    17.9%
  5. It is Rome
    1 vote(s)
    3.6%
 
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jerry kelso

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Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine, of modern Dispensational Theology, would be a part of those deceived. It is a form of Dual Covenant Theology, based on race. However, nobody has given us the DNA standard of those involved.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.


.

baberean2,

1. You amaze me with your circular reasoning which is because you cannot prove anything by your intellect or out of the scriptures.

2. Those who believe in the Spiritual Jew theory and replacement theology are the real ones deceived and I have proved numerous times that those contexts are wrong.

3. You are wrong on all the accounts above.
Everyone in the millennial kingdom that are saved , whether the church of today
or Israel on earth will be one in Christ for all will be saved under the New Covenant.
Just because they are two separate groups of heritage that God has given with two separate callings doesn’t mean they are not one spiritually.
I don’t know why you think that cannot be. All you want to do is put everyone in the church today and do away Israel’s eternal covenants God made with them 1 Chronicles 28:1-7 and 2 Samuel 7:13-16. You don’t even bother to try and answer to that except by disagreeing.

4. At the same time physical Israel will inherit the land promised them in the Abrahamic Covenant Ezekiel 3:16-28.
This is plain to see because Israel and Judah will no longer be two sticks but one in the Land of Israel with David as their King and the Lord will reside from Jerusalem as King Over all the earth Zechariah 14.
Physical DNA has nothing to do with salvation like your accusations you put it.
Physical DNA of Israel has to do with their physical posterity that will inherit the land of Israel.
When Jesus said, Blessed are the meek they shall inherit the earth he was talking to Israel specifically and their land and it will happen in the millennial kingdom because in the time of Jacob’s trouble Jeremiah 30:7-9 he shall save them and make them a nation born in one day Isaiah 66:8 for as Zion travails she will bring forth her children.
Verse 12 says that the Lord will extend peace to her like a river and the glory of the gentiles like a flowing stream.
There is nothing about the church receiving the glory of the gentiles.
So yes, the DNA of Israel will inherit their specific land of Israel in that day and be at the head of the nations where Christ law will go forth from Zion Isaiah 2:1-4.
I didn’t say that God’s word said that.

5. You can twist it all you want and spiritualized and think DNA doesn’t have a part in the physical land and that everything has to be labeled under the auspices of the church and you will always be wrong.
Physical DNA has nothing to do with receiving salvation and never has. Even the law itself couldn’t save a person, it could only say thou shalt not.
It took the blood of Jesus Christ Hebrews 9-17.
You ought not to misrepresent Dispensationalism because it results in false accusations.

6. Your assessment of Jeremiah 31:31-34 is totally wrong and shows ho w little understanding you really have about Israel’s gifts and callings Romans 11:29.

7. To say Israel received the New Covenant as a nation at the Day of Pentecost is to call Christ a liar when he said the time of the kingdom coming to fruition was not for them to know Acts 1:6-7.
If they had received it as the kingdom the Kingdom of Heaven would have started then and all creation would have blossomed and the curse lifted Joel 2 and animal life would have had the lion lay down with the lamb and the leopard with the kid etc. Isaiah 11:6-8 and they wouldn’t hurt or destroy in all God’s holy mountain: for all the earth would be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

8. The New Covenant for the whole world John 3:16 was what happened at Calvary and the Church was born to make one new man which Paul called he mystery of the Church Ephesians 2:14-15.
You cannot mix the Kingdom of Heaven message to the Jews that Jesus preached to them with the birth of the church.
That is why your position is flat out wrong.
The New Covenant for Israel in the future is when the KoH will be set up and their nation will be saved spiritually and physically.
That is why Christ comes back with church age saints to Armageddon to destroy Israel’s enemies and raise them up as a nation under God Joel 3; Zechariah 14 and Revelation 16:16.
Then will Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:8-12 be fulfilled.

9. Hebrews 10:16-18; The Jeremiah passage in this chapter will not be fulfilled till the end of Jacob’s trouble
Acts 1:6-7; Isaiah 2:2-4; 9:6-7; Ezekiel 37:16-28; Joel 2-3; Zechariah 14.
Putting their laws into their minds and hearts and remembering their sins no more hasn’t happened as a nation for they are still as backslidden today as they were in Jesus day Matthew 23:37-39 and in the beginning stages of the early church with Stephen’s address to the Jews Acts 7.
Acts 7:51: Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, te do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye......
They stoned him verses 54-60.
They were backslidden in Acts 28:25-31 as a nation and that is why Paul left the Jews and started his ministry to the gentiles.
And Christ had already told about Israel’s rejection in Matthew 23:37-39 and prophesied the judgement on them in Matthew 24:1-2 that came to pass in 70 A.D. which is also a historical and scriptural fact.

10. 2 Corinthians 3:6-8 and Hebrews 12:22-24 pertain to the church and not Israel the nation’s deliverance and salvation under the NC.
So your linkage to the Jeremiah passage is completely wrong and out of context.

11. Pre- Trib rapture is the feast of trumpets 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
The time of Jacob’s trouble is the feast of Atonement Zechariah 13:1; 12:10.
The feast of tabernacles is the millennial kingdom and the order cannot be changed.
You are wrong again and will always be wrong in your position. Jerry Kelso
 
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I've generally liked to listen to and read Hanegraaff's radio show and books over the years, just as I do a wide spectrum of Christian viewpoints, I'll just briefly say that I'm more prone to see Apocaplytic material in the Bible from a more generally Historicist, Pre-millenial viewpoint, but with a few nods to some of the things I feel I've learned from both Preterist of various stripes as well as from some Dispensationalist. Sure, there may be a World Order a'coming, but I don't think it's 'NEW' and I don't think its going to be in exactly the form that we think it will be. Some things may yet surprise us ....... not that I want to be surprised mind you, since none of us does really, but it won't all happen in ways that we can just pull out our Bible's and start interpreting like we're playing a card game of "Match the Kings, Queens and Jacks."

Anyway, thanks for the article. It's interesting reading. :cool:

I honestly believe that Matthew 24 and part of Revelation is
"DUAL PROPHECY". Revelation is also an epistle. The 7 churches existed at that time and are not future ages or future churches although we can all look at the church we go to and compare it to one of the churches in Asia.

While I reject dispensationalism and preterism as a whole, I think a combo historicist-futurist premillennial view makes the most sense. I also believe these passages are for Christians and not unsaved Jews who are part of the killing of the two prophets in Revelation 11 at the end of the 6th trumpet right before Jesus returns. And most Jews don't even read the old testament and the few that do read it in light of false teachings by unsaved rabbis so these words from Jesus is totally meaningless to them. Had they believed Moses, they would not that I am He. Isaiah and Paul even state that only a remnant of natural Israelites will be saved.
Now those trying to form a new world order that I believe comes from Daniel 2- a revived roman empire would include those that have brought on the most persecution on Christians ever - Israel, Washington DC and the Vatican as all rest on 7 mountains and all are conniving right now for world conquest and it looks like they may be coming together by some things I know already politically. I just don't feel like writing for two hours here. That, and most would ignore it anyhow because they are stuck in one paradigm fo what they want to believe.
We are fighting wars as Christians for the sake of keeping our dollar afloat adn this brings on persecution for Christians who live in those countries who may have only had to deal with sharia law beforehand.
In Talmudic writings, there are to be 2,800 Gentile slaves for every one Jew. That sounds like world conquest Nazi white supremacist talk and we are already fighting wars over there for them so they can establish greater Israel once again as if God has to keep fulfilling His promises. The USA is already bought and paid for and under extreme debt since 1929 when the Illuminati symbol appeared on the dollar bill for the first time and this same symbol is erected on top of Jerusalem's Supreme Court building built in 1993 under the true leaders of Israel's pagan pluralistic society under the Rothschilds. Who owns who? The Pope is already connecting with rabbis and Imams recently to take one more step toward a one world religion/government. I say watch for this Pope to convert to Judaism and enact the Noahide Laws on the whole planet. The Noahide Laws subjects all Gentiles under Jewish superiority but keeps them out of being God's supposed apple of his eye. This stuff is spreading pretty fast and it is where I think it is heading. The persecutors of the early church were Judaism (number one), than pagan Rome, then Papal Rome. America has become both Judaized and taken over to some degree by the Jesuits and Knights of Malta over the last 100 years. This is my take on it. almost our entire government is seated by almost everyone but a true Biblical Christian whether in the Judicial system, Presidential or congress. And almost every politician is bought and paid for by AIPAC now. They will wine and dine you if you put Israel first and if you aren't willing they will run financial support to your competitor for the seat who is willing. Fact! The ADL attacks only Biblical Christianity which is another Jewish law firm. Fact! I can go on and on. The American pre-trib church is very deceived and is being used because of bad theology. Hear your thoughts?
 
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I honestly believe that Matthew 24 and part of Revelation is
"DUAL PROPHECY". Revelation is also an epistle. The 7 churches existed at that time and are not future ages or future churches although we can all look at the church we go to and compare it to one of the churches in Asia.

While I reject dispensationalism and preterism as a whole, I think a combo historicist-futurist premillennial view makes the most sense. I also believe these passages are for Christians and not unsaved Jews who are part of the killing of the two prophets in Revelation 11 at the end of the 6th trumpet right before Jesus returns. And most Jews don't even read the old testament and the few that do read it in light of false teachings by unsaved rabbis so these words from Jesus is totally meaningless to them. Had they believed Moses, they would not that I am He. Isaiah and Paul even state that only a remnant of natural Israelites will be saved.
Now those trying to form a new world order that I believe comes from Daniel 2- a revived roman empire would include those that have brought on the most persecution on Christians ever - Israel, Washington DC and the Vatican as all rest on 7 mountains and all are conniving right now for world conquest and it looks like they may be coming together by some things I know already politically. I just don't feel like writing for two hours here. That, and most would ignore it anyhow because they are stuck in one paradigm fo what they want to believe.
We are fighting wars as Christians for the sake of keeping our dollar afloat adn this brings on persecution for Christians who live in those countries who may have only had to deal with sharia law beforehand.
In Talmudic writings, there are to be 2,800 Gentile slaves for every one Jew. That sounds like world conquest Nazi white supremacist talk and we are already fighting wars over there for them so they can establish greater Israel once again as if God has to keep fulfilling His promises. The USA is already bought and paid for and under extreme debt since 1929 when the Illuminati symbol appeared on the dollar bill for the first time and this same symbol is erected on top of Jerusalem's Supreme Court building built in 1993 under the true leaders of Israel's pagan pluralistic society under the Rothschilds. Who owns who? The Pope is already connecting with rabbis and Imams recently to take one more step toward a one world religion/government. I say watch for this Pope to convert to Judaism and enact the Noahide Laws on the whole planet. The Noahide Laws subjects all Gentiles under Jewish superiority but keeps them out of being God's supposed apple of his eye. This stuff is spreading pretty fast and it is where I think it is heading. The persecutors of the early church were Judaism (number one), than pagan Rome, then Papal Rome. America has become both Judaized and taken over to some degree by the Jesuits and Knights of Malta over the last 100 years. This is my take on it. almost our entire government is seated by almost everyone but a true Biblical Christian whether in the Judicial system, Presidential or congress. And almost every politician is bought and paid for by AIPAC now. They will wine and dine you if you put Israel first and if you aren't willing they will run financial support to your competitor for the seat who is willing. Fact! The ADL attacks only Biblical Christianity which is another Jewish law firm. Fact! I can go on and on. The American pre-trib church is very deceived and is being used because of bad theology. Hear your thoughts?
The church will go through persecution again like the Messianic Jews did in the early church. I dont' believe God left the church for 2,000 years without giving us warning of what is coming.
 
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I honestly believe that Matthew 24 and part of Revelation is
"DUAL PROPHECY". Revelation is also an epistle. The 7 churches existed at that time and are not future ages or future churches although we can all look at the church we go to and compare it to one of the churches in Asia.

While I reject dispensationalism and preterism as a whole, I think a combo historicist-futurist premillennial view makes the most sense. I also believe these passages are for Christians and not unsaved Jews who are part of the killing of the two prophets in Revelation 11 at the end of the 6th trumpet right before Jesus returns. And most Jews don't even read the old testament and the few that do read it in light of false teachings by unsaved rabbis so these words from Jesus is totally meaningless to them. Had they believed Moses, they would not that I am He. Isaiah and Paul even state that only a remnant of natural Israelites will be saved.
Now those trying to form a new world order that I believe comes from Daniel 2- a revived roman empire would include those that have brought on the most persecution on Christians ever - Israel, Washington DC and the Vatican as all rest on 7 mountains and all are conniving right now for world conquest and it looks like they may be coming together by some things I know already politically. I just don't feel like writing for two hours here. That, and most would ignore it anyhow because they are stuck in one paradigm fo what they want to believe.
We are fighting wars as Christians for the sake of keeping our dollar afloat adn this brings on persecution for Christians who live in those countries who may have only had to deal with sharia law beforehand.
In Talmudic writings, there are to be 2,800 Gentile slaves for every one Jew. That sounds like world conquest Nazi white supremacist talk and we are already fighting wars over there for them so they can establish greater Israel once again as if God has to keep fulfilling His promises. The USA is already bought and paid for and under extreme debt since 1929 when the Illuminati symbol appeared on the dollar bill for the first time and this same symbol is erected on top of Jerusalem's Supreme Court building built in 1993 under the true leaders of Israel's pagan pluralistic society under the Rothschilds. Who owns who? The Pope is already connecting with rabbis and Imams recently to take one more step toward a one world religion/government. I say watch for this Pope to convert to Judaism and enact the Noahide Laws on the whole planet. The Noahide Laws subjects all Gentiles under Jewish superiority but keeps them out of being God's supposed apple of his eye. This stuff is spreading pretty fast and it is where I think it is heading. The persecutors of the early church were Judaism (number one), than pagan Rome, then Papal Rome. America has become both Judaized and taken over to some degree by the Jesuits and Knights of Malta over the last 100 years. This is my take on it. almost our entire government is seated by almost everyone but a true Biblical Christian whether in the Judicial system, Presidential or congress. And almost every politician is bought and paid for by AIPAC now. They will wine and dine you if you put Israel first and if you aren't willing they will run financial support to your competitor for the seat who is willing. Fact! The ADL attacks only Biblical Christianity which is another Jewish law firm. Fact! I can go on and on. The American pre-trib church is very deceived and is being used because of bad theology. Hear your thoughts?

I hear what you're saying and there may be some amount of truth in various points you've tied together above. But I think we should keep in mind a few things: 1) We're not here as Christians to overstate our respective positions about prophecy and thereby cause some kind of 'defensive, military insurrection' among masses of people--no, that would be a mistake, 2) we are called by Christ to be His witnesses and ambassadors of peace despite whatever persecutions may or may not come, and 3) we might keep in mind that the present State of Israel, however much it might be contended that it should or should not exist, or deserves to be or not to be according to various voices, can still be seen to be a state that even though it's new presence since 1948 wasn't 'deserved,' it should still exist according to God's Law; God said He'd bring His people back to the Land, and we may still consider that His orchestrating it to be so could and would serve as a testimony to the Nations.

So, we might want to be careful in poking epithets at folks who aren't actually demons and who, perhaps, despite themselves, have received both the negative and the positive sides of God's Providences in the History of our World, even if in our own times.
 
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I hear what you're saying and there may be some amount of truth in various points you've tied together above. But I think we should keep in mind a few things: 1) We're not here as Christians to overstate our respective positions about prophecy and thereby cause some kind of 'defensive, military insurrection' among masses of people--no, that would be a mistake, 2) we are called by Christ to be His witnesses and ambassadors of peace despite whatever persecutions may or may not come, and 3) we might keep in mind that the present State of Israel, however much it might be contended that it should or should not exist, or deserves to be or not to be according to various voices, can still be seen to be a state that even though it's new presence since 1948 wasn't 'deserved,' it should still exist according to God's Law; God said He'd bring His people back to the Land, and we may still consider that His orchestrating it to be so could and would serve as a testimony to the Nations.

So, we might want to be careful in poking epithets at folks are aren't actually demons and who, perhaps, despite themselves, have received both the negative and the positive sides of God's Providences in the History of our World, even if in our own times.

Well said. I agree with 90% of what you said there. God does want us to know who the LAST antichrist is though so we need to study Bible prophecy and be aware of what is going on.

I believe God already fulfilled the promise to bring them back into the land as that prophecy was given before they returned from Babylon as many other prophecies were fulfilled that many are putting 2,000 years into the future. Other things to note, God never brought them back into the land unless there was national repentance first. All of a sudden dispensationalists reject this fact. Under their view, not yours, their pre-trib rapture had to take place before 1988 came if 1948 is truly God's work. They keep moving the goalpost back because something is wrong with their theology. Repentance never happened. AS a matter of fact ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians immediately started under Menachin Began (spelling?) as soon as the Balfour Declaration became a reality. They went from losing 52% of their land overnight to now about 85%. Many are Christians over there. Israel is now the gay capital of the world so either one of God's attributes, Immutability (unchanging), is now no longer true or we are seeing things wrong. Israel per capita is also possibly the biggest abortion country now too.
Then we have the problem with their DNA. Only 5% to 12% are even considered DNA Jews so which Jews are we talking about- the ones Paul called Jews (ones circumcised in heart who really are the ones going to inherit the land as we will even judge angels) or modern theology? Check out Dr. Elkan's DNA testing. He is a Jewish DNA scientist. Then we have the modern state of Israel actually rejecting the migration of true Ethiopian Jews because they are black. the whole thing reeks with scam to me.

My final thoughts:
What do you think of this passage as to me it says God fuliflled His promises to the natural seed already.
God DID fulfil ALL His promises to Israel? - Joshua 21:45 Not one of the good promises which the LORD had made to the house of Israel failed; all came to pass. Joshua 23:14 "Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the LORD your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed. 1 Kings 8:56 "Blessed be the LORD, who has given rest to His people Israel, according to all that He promised; not one word has failed of all His good promise, which He promised through Moses His servant.

What did Jesus mean by this?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The word nation here in the Koine greek is "pagan heathen Gentile".

Finally:
Most Jews (?) in America reject what is going on in Israel today and even those claiming to be Jewish in israel, there are many who reject what they are doing. Some rabbis actually protest with the Palestinians. These are secrets our pastors never cared to mention when teaching the dispensational view as it creates many problems.

God Bless.
 
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Well said. I agree with 90% of what you said there. God does want us to know who the LAST antichrist is though so we need to study Bible prophecy and be aware of what is going on.

I believe God already fulfilled the promise to bring them back into the land as that prophecy was given before they returned from Babylon as many other prophecies were fulfilled that many are putting 2,000 years into the future. Other things to note, God never brought them back into the land unless there was national repentance first. All of a sudden dispensationalists reject this fact. Under their view, not yours, their pre-trib rapture had to take place before 1988 came if 1948 is truly God's work. They keep moving the goalpost back because something is wrong with their theology. Repentance never happened. AS a matter of fact ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians immediately started under Menachin Began (spelling?) as soon as the Balfour Declaration became a reality. They went from losing 52% of their land overnight to now about 85%. Many are Christians over there. Israel is now the gay capital of the world so either one of God's attributes, Immutability (unchanging), is now no longer true or we are seeing things wrong. Israel per capita is also possibly the biggest abortion country now too.
Then we have the problem with their DNA. Only 5% to 12% are even considered DNA Jews so which Jews are we talking about- the ones Paul called Jews (ones circumcised in heart who really are the ones going to inherit the land as we will even judge angels) or modern theology? Check out Dr. Elkan's DNA testing. He is a Jewish DNA scientist. Then we have the modern state of Israel actually rejecting the migration of true Ethiopian Jews because they are black. the whole thing reeks with scam to me.

My final thoughts:
What do you think of this passage as to me it says God fuliflled His promises to the natural seed already.
God DID fulfil ALL His promises to Israel? - Joshua 21:45 Not one of the good promises which the LORD had made to the house of Israel failed; all came to pass. Joshua 23:14 "Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the LORD your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed. 1 Kings 8:56 "Blessed be the LORD, who has given rest to His people Israel, according to all that He promised; not one word has failed of all His good promise, which He promised through Moses His servant.

What did Jesus mean by this?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The word nation here in the Koine greek is "pagan heathen Gentile".

Finally:
Most Jews (?) in America reject what is going on in Israel today and even those claiming to be Jewish in israel, there are many who reject what they are doing. Some rabbis actually protest with the Palestinians. These are secrets our pastors never cared to mention when teaching the dispensational view as it creates many problems.

God Bless.

I'm 4% Ashkenazi by the way. I could care less about my jewish or italian heritage. God looks at the heart. Always has. He rejected most of the Israelites under the old covenant (only 2 entered the promised land) and many other times He rejected NATURAL Israelis but always grafted in Gentiles under the old covenant. it all came down to if you truly followed Yahweh under the Old and Jesus under the New if you were a true Jew. The bride of Christ is now being replaced with a fake bride that still curses the name of Jesus. That is the replacement theology we are really dealing with today. I'm talking of course modern day Judaism and the witchcraft side of Kabbalah. Not all Jews hold to this. About 50% are irreligious or atheist nowadays according to their own newspapers. I guess you can be an atheist and still be God's people if you are Jewish but if a Gentile you are not? Pope Francis agrees to that.
 
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Just because they are two separate groups of heritage that God has given with two separate callings doesn’t mean they are not one spiritually.



Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


"That is why Christ comes back with church age saints to Armageddon to destroy Israel’s enemies and raise them up as a nation under God Joel 3; Zechariah 14 and Revelation 16:16.
Then will Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:8-12 be fulfilled."



2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.



Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.




The New Covenant: Bob George



.


 
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