Battle over forms of Preterism in the Church of Christ:

BABerean2

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It wasn't that to begin with. The Disciples of Christ and Church of Christ were once one movement. It was actually ecumenical (although that's more of a modern word) and driven by a need to get back to basics and realize we're all brothers in the "Church of Christ". A fantastic goal... but it didn't last. These two things (getting back to basics vs ecumenism) tend to struggle with each other.

I'd say that the Disciples of Christ kind of carried on the original ecumenical spirit far more, but became so openended to the point of not having any strong identity. While the Church of Christ emphasized the fundamentals and became more and more stringent about them.

I have heard some really good preaching from the Church of Christ.

Their "Water-Gospel" is the greatest error I have found with their denomination.


Based on Luke 3:16, and Acts of the Apostles 11:15-17, and Romans 8:9, and 1 Corinthians 3:16, and Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27, the most important thing about the word "baptism" in the New Testament, has nothing to do with water. Which of the two baptisms found in Luke 3:16, is found in Ephesians 4:4-5?


In John chapter 3 Christ said a person must be "born again" of the Spirit of God, in order to inherit the kingdom of God.


.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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There is a battle raging between those promoting different forms of Preterism in the Church of Christ, first established by Campbell.

2Ti 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,
2Ti 2:18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.




.
This might be helpful.
Church of Christ Preterism Study Archive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism and Preterist Eschatology
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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There is a battle raging between those promoting different forms of Preterism in the Church of Christ, first established by Campbell.
BABerean2 said:
If you add 5% poison to the best food in the world, it can still kill you.
Poison, is still poison, based on Galatians 1:6-9.
It wasn't that to begin with. The Disciples of Christ and Church of Christ were once one movement. It was actually ecumenical (although that's more of a modern word) and driven by a need to get back to basics and realize we're all brothers in the "Church of Christ". A fantastic goal... but it didn't last. These two things (getting back to basics vs ecumenism) tend to struggle with each other.

I'd say that the Disciples of Christ kind of carried on the original ecumenical spirit far more, but became so openended to the point of not having any strong identity. While the Church of Christ emphasized the fundamentals and became more and more stringent about them.
I have heard some really good preaching from the Church of Christ.
.
So what forms of preterism were they arguing over?

Did they believe the final judgment of the dead at the WT judgement was fulfilled

Psa 75:7
But God is the Judge:
He puts down one, And exalts another.

Amo 2:3
And I will cut off the judge from its midst, And slay all its princes with him,”
Says the LORD.

Mic 5:1
Now gather yourself in troops, O daughter of troops;
He has laid siege against us; They will strike the judge of Israel with a rod on the cheek.

Dan 7:9
“I watched till thrones were put in place, And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow, And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame, Its wheels a burning fire;
Dan 7:10
A fiery stream issued And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him; Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court[fn] was seated, And the books were opened.


Jas 5:9
Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned.[fn]
Behold! the Judge is standing at the door!

Rev 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[fn] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life.
And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

 
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BABerean2

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So what forms of preterism were they arguing over?

The Biblical "Partial-Preterist" view that I believe in, and the extreme "Hyper" viewpoint that we are not supposed to discuss on this forum, and is considered to be heretical by many Christians.


There are those on this forum who claim we are now living in the New Heavens, and the New Earth.
It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out which of the above they are supporting.


.
 
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mkgal1

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There are those on this forum who claim we are now living in the New Heavens, and the New Earth.
It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out which of the above they are supporting.
There's a tension there - because I know you adamantly believe the Old Covenant has passed away. So - how can we have both with this passage in mind:

Matthew 5:18 ~ For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not stroke of a pen, will disappear fromt the Law until everything is accomplished

....and that doesn't fall under what you're accusing. The SOP for this forum clarifies that.
 
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BABerean2

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until everything is accomplished

That same word "until" is found in Galatians 3:16-29.

Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.



It is God who said there has been a change in the law in the verse below.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.



If a person reads the rest of Matthew chapter 5 we find about 8 times when the Old Covenant is quoted and then Christ says, "But I say...".
The New Covenant is a higher standard of conduct, based on the words of Christ in Matthew chapter 5.


A person could wash their clothes in a bucket of soapy water, but it would be "obsolete" compared to a modern washing machine. In this same way, the Old Covenant is obsolete in comparison to the New Covenant.

.
 
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mkgal1

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That same word "until" is found in Galatians 3:16-29.

Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.
I hope we can agree that this is past, correct?​

It is God who said there has been a change in the law in the verse below.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Okay - another point of agreement between us, that the Law & priesthood changed. We also are in agreement that's past as well....correct?​

If a person reads the rest of Matthew chapter 5 we find about 8 times when the Old Covenant is quoted and then Christ says, "But I say...".
The New Covenant is a higher standard of conduct, based on the words of Christ in Matthew chapter 5.
How does this address the issue that if the Law and priesthood have changed, then somehow "heaven and Earth" must have passed away? It all is linked together.​
 
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BABerean2

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I hope we can agree that this is past, correct?​


Okay - another point of agreement between us, that the Law & priesthood changed. We also are in agreement that's past as well....correct?​


How does this address the issue that if the Law and priesthood have changed, then somehow "heaven and Earth" must have passed away? It all is linked together.​


(GW) I can guarantee this truth: Until the earth and the heavens disappear, neither a period nor a comma will disappear from Moses' Teachings before everything has come true.

Did God promise a New Covenant, which would not be like the Old Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34?

Did the New Covenant come to fruition before the heavens and the earth passed away?

.
 
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mkgal1

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(GW) I can guarantee this truth: Until the earth and the heavens disappear, neither a period nor a comma will disappear from Moses' Teachings before everything has come true.

Did God promise a New Covenant, which would not be like the Old Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34?

Did the New Covenant come to fruition before the heavens and the earth passed away?

.
If heaven & earth haven't passed away (according to Scripture) then we'd have the whole Law intact - not one iota would disappear.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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BABerean2 said:
There are those on this forum who claim we are now living in the New Heavens, and the New Earth.
It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out which of the above they are supporting
There's a tension there - because I know you adamantly believe the Old Covenant has passed away. So - how can we have both with this passage in mind:

Matthew 5:18 ~ For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not stroke of a pen, will disappear fromt the Law until everything is accomplished

....and that doesn't fall under what you're accusing. The SOP for this forum clarifies that.
mkgal1 said:
I hope we can agree that this is past, correct?

Okay - another point of agreement between us, that the Law & priesthood changed. We also are in agreement that's past as well....correct?

How does this address the issue that if the Law and priesthood have changed, then somehow "heaven and Earth" must have passed away? It all is linked together.
(GW) I can guarantee this truth: Until the earth and the heavens disappear, neither a period nor a comma will disappear from Moses' Teachings before everything has come true.

Did God promise a New Covenant, which would not be like the Old Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34?
Did the New Covenant come to fruition before the heavens and the earth passed away?
.
Inquiring minds want to know!

Partial Preterist Only - What are the Partial Preterists view of the New Heaven and Earth in the Bible

Discuss from Partial Preterist view only......
Concordance/Lexicon I use:
Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

First and last times plural heavens and earth used in OT

YLT)
Gen 1:1
In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth --

Zec 8:12
Because of the sowing of peace, The vine doth give her fruit, And the earth doth give her increase, And the heavens do give their dew,
And I have caused the remnant of this people To inherit all these.

1st and last verses used in NT

Mat 11:25
At that time Jesus answering said, 'I do confess to Thee, Father, Lord of the heavens and of the earth, that thou didst hide these things from wise and understanding ones, and didst reveal them to babes.

2Pe 3:13
and for new heavens and a new earth according to His promise we do wait, in which righteousness doth dwell;
==================
1st and last verses of singular heaven and earth in OT

Gen 14:19
and he blesseth him, and saith, 'Blessed is Abram to God Most High, possessing heaven and earth;

Zec 12:1
The burden of a word of Jehovah on Israel. An affirmation of Jehovah, Stretching out heaven, and founding earth, And forming the spirit of man in his midst.

1st and last verses in NT

Mat 5:18
for, verily I say to you, till that the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the law, till that all may come to pass.

Rev 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth did pass away, and the sea is not any more;
=========================
A few views from early Church historians, Josephus and Eusebius

The New Heavens and Earth | Study Archive @ PreteristArchive.com - The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism

New Heavens and Earth
Global, Covenantal, or Personal?

"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens, and a new earth." II Peter 3:13

Josephus First, Book III, chap.6, section 4:
"Now the room within those pillars was the most holy place; but the rest of the room was the tabernacle, which was open for the priests. However, this proportion of the measures of the tabernacle proved to be an imitation of the system of the world; for that third part thereof which was within the four pillars, to which the priests were not admitted, is, as it were, a heaven peculiar to God." Of the veil at the holy of holies, he said, "This veil was very ornamental, and embroidered with all sorts of flowers which the earth produces; and there were interwoven into it all sorts of variety that might be an ornament, excepting the forms of animals"

Josephus War 5.1.4 19-20
The darts that were thrown by the engines [of the seditious factions] came with that force, that they went over all the buildings and the Temple itself, and fell upon the priests and those that were about the sacred offices; insomuch that many persons who came thither with great zeal from the ends of the earth to offer sacrifices at this celebrated place, which was esteemed holy by all mankind, fell down before their own sacrifices themselves, and sprinkled that altar which was venerable among all men, both Greeks and barbarians, with their own blood. The dead bodies of strangers were mingled together with those of their own country, and those of profane persons with those of the priests, and the blood of all sorts of dead carcasses stood in lakes in the holy courts themselves.

Oh most wretched city, what misery so great as this didst thou suffer from the Romans, when they came to purify thee from thy internal pollutions! For thou couldst be no longer a place fit for God, nor couldst thou longer survive, after thou hadst been a sepulchre for the bodies of thine own people, and hast made the Holy House itself a burying-place in this civil war of thine. Yet mayst thou again grow better, if perchance thou wilt hereafter appease the anger of that God who is the author of thy destruction.
But I must restrain myself from these passions by the rules of History, since this is not a proper time for domestic lamentation, but for historical narrations.

EUSEBIUS
Bishop of Caesarea
(c. 265 - 340)
Extract from the 'Theophania' :

"All authorities concur in the declaration that "when all these things should have been done" "The End" should come : that "the mystery of God should be finished as he had declared to His servants the prophets" : it should be completed : time should now be no more : the End of all things (so foretold) should be at hand, and be fully brought to pass : in these days should be fulfilled all that had been spoken of Christ (and of His church) by the prophets : or, in other words, when the gospel should have been preached in all the world for a testimony to all nations, and the power of the Holy People be scattered (abroad), then should the End come, then should all these things be finished.

I need now only say, all these things have been done : the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem--all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realised on earth ; all these things have been done in the sight of all the nations ; God's holy arm has been made bare in their sight: His judgments have prevailed, and they remain for an everlasting testimony to the whole world. His kingdom has come, as it was foretold it should, and His will has, so far, been done; His purposes have been finished; and, from that day to the extreme end of time, it will be the duty, as indeed it will be the great privilege of the Church, to gather into its bosom the Jew, the Greek, the Scythian, the Barbarian, bond and free; and to do this as the Apostles did in their days--in obedience, faith and hope.' "
====================================
Is partial preterism biblical? What do partial preterists believe? | GotQuestions.org

Those who hold to partial preterism believe that the prophecies in Daniel, Matthew 24, and Revelation (with the exception of the last two or three chapters) have already been fulfilled and were fulfilled no later than the first century AD. According to partial preterism, there is no rapture, and passages describing the tribulation and the Antichrist are actually referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 and the Roman emperor Titus.
Partial preterists do believe in the return of Christ to earth and a future resurrection and judgment, but they do not teach a millennial kingdom or that Israel as a nation has a place in God’s future plan. According to partial preterists, the Bible’s references to “the last days” are speaking of the last days of the Old Jewish Covenant, not the last days of the earth itself

Those who hold to partial preterism also do not read Matthew 24 in a literal sense. Christ spoke of the destruction of the temple (Matthew 24:2). But much of what He described did not occur in AD 70. Christ speaks of that future time as one of “great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened” (Matthew 24:21–22).
Surely, this cannot be applied to the events of AD 70. There have been worse times in the history of the world since then.

Partial preterists also appeal to Matthew 24:34 where Jesus speaks of “this generation.” They say that Christ was referring to those living at the time He spoke the words recorded in that chapter; thus, the tribulation had to occur within about 40 years of His statement.
However, we believe that Jesus was not referring to the people of His day but to the generation who would witness the events recorded in Matthew 24:15–31. That future generation will witness all of the swiftly moving events of the last days, including Christ’s bodily return (verses 29–30).

The partial preterist viewpoint leads to a belief in amillenialism (or post-millenialism) and is associated with covenant theology. Of course, it rejects dispensationalism. But its main problem is its inconsistent hermeneutic and its allegorizing of many biblical prophecies that are better understood literally. While partial preterism is within the scope of orthodoxy, it is not the majority view among Christians today
A-Mil Only - Amill views on the New Heaven and Earth in Bible

Views on the New Heaven/s and Earth mentioned in OT and NT
 
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BABerean2

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LittleLambofJesus

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Are those who believe we are now in the New Heavens and New Earth really Partial-Preterists?
.
That depends on what the New Heaven and Earth symbolizes to the Hebrew Jews in the 1st century.
What is meant by the "whole Law"?

Jhn 7:23
if a man doth receive circumcision on a sabbath that the law of Moses may not be broken, are ye wroth with me that I made a man all whole on a sabbath?

Gal 5:3
and I testify again to every man circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law;
Jas 2:10
for whoever the whole law shall keep, and shall stumble in one point, he hath become guilty of all;

Views on the New Heaven and Earth in Revelation 21:1

Mat 5:18
“For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Mar 13:31
“Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
Luk 16:17
“And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.
Luk 21:33
“Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Rev 21:1
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
 
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BABerean2

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Views on the New Heaven and Earth in Revelation 21:1

Mat 5:18
“For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Mar 13:31
“Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
Luk 16:17
“And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.
Luk 21:33
“Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Rev 21:1
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.


Are you saying Revelation 21:1 has already come to fruition?


.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Are you saying Revelation 21:1 has already come to fruition?
.
Ah, now that we are on this board we can more fully discuss that from all views of Preterism/Amill and provide Preterist links without being "shackled" as on the other board.
I have a thread on that topic:

Views on the New Heaven/s and Earth mentioned in OT and NT

Let's start with google search on "new heaven and earth preterist", since I am Preterist/Amill.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-ab&sxsrf=ACYBGNRzmzzVmQMslVgftuQ

1st link to show up:

Revelation 21 Commentary - The New Heaven and Earth

In this Preterist commentary on Revelation 21, compelling evidence is presented showing that the new Jerusalem exists right now! In Revelation 21:2 John sees the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven as a symbolic illustration of Philippians 3:20, Hebrews 11:13, and John 17:16. Philippians 3:20 says that “our citizenship is in heaven.” Hebrews 11:13 refers to the saints as “strangers and exiles on the earth.” John 17:16 echoes this idea when referring to Himself and the saints, Jesus says, “They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.” In Revelation 21:2 the New Jerusalem is depicted coming down from heaven to earth illustrating the fact that the saints are of heaven as stated in John 17:16. The fact that the saints are “strangers and exiles on the earth[,]” “not of the world” and have their “citizen

The Destruction of Heaven and Earth and the New Heaven and Earth Explained! - Revelation Revolution

A Preterist View of The Destruction of Heaven and Earth and the New Heaven and New Earth: Summary and Highlights

The prophecies concerning the destruction of heaven and earth are written in an apocalyptic style. Apocalyptic literature is similar to poetry and is thus not strictly literal. When a nation is conquered and destroyed by a foreign army, the Bible sometimes portrays this tragedy in the language of the destruction of heaven and earth. The fall of Babylon (Isaiah 13:9-13), Israel (Jeremiah 4:23-26), Egypt (Ezekiel 32:7-9) and Edom (Isaiah 34:4-5) in the sixth century B.C. are all depicted together with the destruction of heaven and earth. Just as the sky was not literally and physically destroyed at the fall of these great nations in the sixth century B.C., the sky was also not physically destroyed during Israel’s first century war with Rome. When discussing the destruction of heaven and earth, most preterist scholars will stop right here. However, there is far more to the destruction of heaven and earth than what has been stated above. Several natural and supernatural events in the first century A.D. and the sixth century B.C. appear to fulfill these prophecies concerning the destruction of heaven and earth in a shockingly literal way from the perspective of ancient people.
===========================================
And my all time favorite Preterist site [which includes all forms of Preterism and Futurism]:

The New Heaven and New Earth, Millennium, New Jerusalem - Explained!

There is much confusion regarding just what and where the Kingdom of God is or when it is to take place. Has it already come into existence since A.D. 70, or it is to be something to happen in the near future? And how and where does the Millennium, the New Heaven and New Earth, and the New Jerusalem fit in? Are they already on this same old planet Earth, or are they to be on a newly created Earth, or somewhere up in God’s Heaven?


Many if not most Preterists believe that we are now living in the New Heavens and New Earth period which is also the New Covenant period, the promise of eternal inheritance made to many of the faithful in the Old Testament, to the Apostles and early disciples, and to us in this New Testament (New Covenant) period. Or is the New Heavens and New Earth to be realized only in a future Millennium rule, or in a future Holy City of New Jerusalem, as most Futurists believe?

Hopefully, by the end of this short paper, I would have succeeded in sharing with you the logic and consistency of Scriptures in answering the above title question and in identifying the What, When, Where and How of these symbolic elements.
====================
The New Heavens and Earth | Study Archive @ PreteristArchive.com - The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism

Josephus First, Book III, chap.6, section 4:
"Now the room within those pillars was the most holy place; but the rest of the room was the tabernacle, which was open for the priests. However, this proportion of the measures of the tabernacle proved to be an imitation of the system of the world; for that third part thereof which was within the four pillars, to which the priests were not admitted, is, as it were, a heaven peculiar to God." Of the veil at the holy of holies, he said, "This veil was very ornamental, and embroidered with all sorts of flowers which the earth produces; and there were interwoven into it all sorts of variety that might be an ornament, excepting the forms of animals"

Josephus War 5.1.4 19-20
The darts that were thrown by the engines [of the seditious factions] came with that force, that they went over all the buildings and the Temple itself, and fell upon the priests and those that were about the sacred offices; insomuch that many persons who came thither with great zeal from the ends of the earth to offer sacrifices at this celebrated place, which was esteemed holy by all mankind, fell down before their own sacrifices themselves, and sprinkled that altar which was venerable among all men, both Greeks and barbarians, with their own blood. The dead bodies of strangers were mingled together with those of their own country, and those of profane persons with those of the priests, and the blood of all sorts of dead carcasses stood in lakes in the holy courts themselves. Oh most wretched city, what misery so great as this didst thou suffer from the Romans, when they came to purify thee from thy internal pollutions! For thou couldst be no longer a place fit for God, nor couldst thou longer survive, after thou hadst been a sepulchre for the bodies of thine own people, and hast made the Holy House itself a burying-place in this civil war of thine. Yet mayst thou again grow better, if perchance thou wilt hereafter appease the anger of that God who is the author of thy destruction. But I must restrain myself from these passions by the rules of History, since this is not a proper time for domestic lamentation, but for historical narrations.

EUSEBIUS
Bishop of Caesarea
(c. 265 - 340)
Extract from the 'Theophania' :

"All authorities concur in the declaration that "when all these things should have been done" "The End" should come : that "the mystery of God should be finished as he had declared to His servants the prophets" : it should be completed : time should now be no more : the End of all things (so foretold) should be at hand, and be fully brought to pass : in these days should be fulfilled all that had been spoken of Christ (and of His church) by the prophets : or, in other words, when the gospel should have been preached in all the world for a testimony to all nations, and the power of the Holy People be scattered (abroad), then should the End come, then should all these things be finished. I need now only say, all these things have been done : the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem--all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realised on earth ; all these things have been done in the sight of all the nations ; God's holy arm has been made bare in their sight: His judgments have prevailed, and they remain for an everlasting testimony to the whole world. His kingdom has come, as it was foretold it should, and His will has, so far, been done; His purposes have been finished; and, from that day to the extreme end of time, it will be the duty, as indeed it will be the great privilege of the Church, to gather into its bosom the Jew, the Greek, the Scythian, the Barbarian, bond and free; and to do this as the Apostles did in their days--in obedience, faith and hope.' "
=======================
 
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BABerean2

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The New Heaven and New Earth, Millennium, New Jerusalem - Explained!

From your link...

"The pilgrims and saints, many of them had been dead for a long time, finally received their rewards when their King returned in A.D. 70 to welcome them into the Kingdom, a kingdom that is not of this world. They were resurrected, together with those saints living then and all were able then to enter into Mount Zion, that Holy City – the New Jerusalem. "

The statement above claims there was a resurrection of the OT Saints during 70 AD.
Is this what you believe?

.
 
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mkgal1

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From your link...

"The pilgrims and saints, many of them had been dead for a long time, finally received their rewards when their King returned in A.D. 70 to welcome them into the Kingdom, a kingdom that is not of this world. They were resurrected, together with those saints living then and all were able then to enter into Mount Zion, that Holy City – the New Jerusalem. "

The statement above claims there was a resurrection of the OT Saints during 70 AD.
Is this what you believe?

.
An explanation:

Quoting from a partial preterist site:

The First and Second Resurrection
by Dennis Johnson

In a second perspective on the “thousand years” following the binding of Satan, John saw thrones and the judges who occupied them, the souls of those who had been beheaded for staying true to Jesus (Rev. 20:4–6). These souls “came to life” and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. Their coming to life is “the first resurrection".

Some premillennialists construe “the first resurrection” as believers’ bodily resurrection at Christ’s second coming (see 1 Thess. 4:13–17; 1 Cor. 15:20–23). Although John does not mention a “second resurrection,” these premillennialists believe that a subsequent bodily resurrection of unbelievers is implied in the statement, “The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended” (Rev. 20:5). In this premillennial view of the future, therefore, there are two bodily resurrections separated by a thousand years. Christians will receive their resurrection bodies at Jesus’ glorious return from heaven, and in that resurrected state they will share Jesus’ rule over an earth much improved from the present but not purged of sin. Then, centuries later, non-Christians’ souls will be restored to embodied existence to face final judgment. To determine the merit of this view, we will have to examine the text further.

If we approach this vision from the standpoint of the streams of Old Testament imagery that converge in Revelation, another message emerges. Notice that John sees thrones before he glimpses anyone sitting on them. This order echoes the vision of God enthroned when John was summoned “in the Spirit” into heaven (4:1–2; see 20:11). It also recalls a vision in which Daniel saw thrones, then the Ancient of Days, and then God’s court sitting in judgment (Dan. 7:9–10). These echoes are not coincidental. They show the heavenly locale of this court and its thrones. Those who reign with Christ a thousand years do so in heaven, not on earth.

But doesn’t the statement that “they came to life” in a “first resurrection” show that these souls are reunited with their bodies before they begin their thousand-year reign with Christ, that their resurrection bodies will be seated on the thrones? Can “resurrection” refer to anything other than “literal”—physical, bodily—resurrection? In fact, it can, and in the New Testament it often does.

Thus in God’s Word, such terms as “come to life,” “make alive,” and “resurrection” sometimes convey symbolic, spiritual senses.

(Rev. 5:5). But he saw a Lamb standing, as though slain; and because of its bloody death the Lamb was worthy to open the scroll (5:9). Could the Lamb’s slaughter be the Lion’s victory? Yes; the weakness of Christ’s cross is God’s power (1 Cor. 1:18–25). Again, in Revelation 11:7 and 13:7 the beast, backed by Satan, conquers and kills God’s saints. On the surface, the martyrs’ bloody deaths look like utter defeat. Between those two statements, however, John sees the real situation: believers whom Satan once accused “have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death” (Rev. 12:11). Martyrs who laid down their lives, trusting in Jesus’ blood and righteousness, stand victorious over Satan himself.

Since the Lamb triumphed by being slain and His followers’ secret of victory is their faithfulness unto death, Revelation’s paradoxical logic leads to the surprising conclusion that the first resurrection was, in fact, the martyrs’ violent death at the hands of their persecutors. That death ushered them into the presence of God, where they now worship as priests and reign as kings (20:6; see 7:9–12) -
The First and Second Resurrection by Dennis Johnson
 
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mkgal1

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From your link...

"The pilgrims and saints, many of them had been dead for a long time, finally received their rewards when their King returned in A.D. 70 to welcome them into the Kingdom, a kingdom that is not of this world. They were resurrected, together with those saints living then and all were able then to enter into Mount Zion, that Holy City – the New Jerusalem. "

The statement above claims there was a resurrection of the OT Saints during 70 AD.
Is this what you believe?

.
A visual explanation:

resurrection2.jpg


https://iconreader.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/resurrection2.jpg
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Some more info........

The Preterist Approach to Revelation — The Unfolding of Biblical Eschatology
*snip*

Proponents of the futurist, historicist, and idealist approaches offer several criticisms of the preterist approach to the book. Probably the most serious criticism is that this approach robs the book of any contemporary significance. John Walvoord, for example, writes, “The preterist view, in general, tends to destroy any future significance of the book, which becomes a literary curiosity with little prophetic meaning.”xvi Leon Morris echoes this sentiment, claiming that the preterist approach “has the demerit of making it [the book of Revelation] meaningless for all subsequent readers (except for the information it gives about that early generation).”xvii

It is actually rather surprising that this criticism is repeated so often by conservative evangelical scholars. It implies that any biblical prophecies that have already been fulfilled are meaningless for readers in later generations. But are the Old Testament prophecies that were fulfilled in the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus meaningless for later generations? Are the multitudes of Old Testament prophecies concerning the destruction of Israel and Judah and the subsequent exile meaningless for later generations? Obviously not, and neither would the prophecies in Revelation be any less meaningful or significant if it were shown that many or most of them have already been fulfilled. All Scripture is profitable (2 Tim. 3:16), even those parts of Scripture containing already fulfilled prophecies.

When misguided criticisms, such as the one above, are set aside and the case for a basically preterist approach is objectively considered on its own merits, it is seen to be quite strong. In the first place, our basic hermeneutical approach to the book should be determined by the nature and content of the book itself. As we have already seen, the book itself indicates when at least most of its prophecies are to be fulfilled. In both the first and last chapters, John tells his first century readers that the things revealed in the book “must soon take place” (1:1; 22:6) and that “the time is near” (1:3; 22:10). These statements are generalizations, so they do not require that every event prophesied in the book must be fulfilled in the first century, but the generalizations do provide us with a “general” idea of how we should understand the book.xviii The bulk of John’s prophecy concerns something that was impending in his own day.

Secondly, when the genre of the book is taken into consideration, it provides strong evidence for a basically preterist approach to the book.
The book is a prophecy (1:3; 19:10; 22:7, 10, 18, 19). It is an apocalyptic prophecy set within the form of an epistle, but it is a prophecy nonetheless. Why is this important? It is important because it means that our approach to the other prophetic books of the Bible should provide us with some guidance in how we approach this last prophetic book of the Bible. We should approach it and read it in the same basic way. We do not read any of the Old Testament prophetic books as a whole in an idealist manner, and there is precious little in any of them that could be approached in a historicist manner. We recognize that these prophecies were given to specific people in specific historical contexts. Many of the Old Testament prophecies deal with impending judgments upon either Israel or Judah or the nations that oppressed Israel. They also contain glimpses of ultimate future restoration. In short, we take a basically preterist approach to the Old Testament prophetic books, recognizing that they speak largely of impending events, yet also deal at times with the distant future.xix Given that this is the way in which the Old Testament prophetic books are approached, it seems that our presumption should be in favor of the same basic approach to the prophetic book of Revelation.

It is also easy to forget when reading the book of Revelation that it is the capstone of the entire narrative of Scripture. The bulk of the biblical narrative has concerned the story of Israel, leading up to the coming of the promised Messiah. We recall that most of the content of the Old Testament prophetic books concerned the coming exile of Israel and Judah on account of her rejection of God. The prophecies continued right up to the time of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Babylonians in 586 B.C.(cf. Jeremiah; Ezekiel). In the first century, Jesus foretold another coming judgment of Israel on account of her rejection of himself, and he connected this coming judgment with his accession to the throne of the kingdom of God.

In light of the history of prophecy in Israel, and in light of the redemptive-historical significance Jesus himself places on this first century judgment of Israel, would it be terribly surprising if at the conclusion of the biblical narrative God once again sent a prophet to declare the impending judgment of Israel as well as the ultimate future restoration? When the genre, the statements of the book itself, and the larger biblical context are taken into consideration, a basically preterist approach to the book emerges as the most appropriate approach to take.xx
Proponents of the futurist, historicist, and idealist approaches offer several criticisms of the preterist approach to the book. Probably the most serious criticism is that this approach robs the book of any contemporary significance. John Walvoord, for example, writes, “The preterist view, in general, tends to destroy any future significance of the book, which becomes a literary curiosity with little prophetic meaning.”xvi Leon Morris echoes this sentiment, claiming that the preterist approach “has the demerit of making it [the book of Revelation] meaningless for all subsequent readers (except for the information it gives about that early generation).”xvii

It is actually rather surprising that this criticism is repeated so often by conservative evangelical scholars. It implies that any biblical prophecies that have already been fulfilled are meaningless for readers in later generations. But are the Old Testament prophecies that were fulfilled in the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus meaningless for later generations? Are the multitudes of Old Testament prophecies concerning the destruction of Israel and Judah and the subsequent exile meaningless for later generations? Obviously not, and neither would the prophecies in Revelation be any less meaningful or significant if it were shown that many or most of them have already been fulfilled. All Scripture is profitable (2 Tim. 3:16), even those parts of Scripture containing already fulfilled prophecies.

When misguided criticisms, such as the one above, are set aside and the case for a basically preterist approach is objectively considered on its own merits, it is seen to be quite strong. In the first place, our basic hermeneutical approach to the book should be determined by the nature and content of the book itself. As we have already seen, the book itself indicates when at least most of its prophecies are to be fulfilled. In both the first and last chapters, John tells his first century readers that the things revealed in the book “must soon take place” (1:1; 22:6) and that “the time is near” (1:3; 22:10). These statements are generalizations, so they do not require that every event prophesied in the book must be fulfilled in the first century, but the generalizations do provide us with a “general” idea of how we should understand the book.xviii The bulk of John’s prophecy concerns something that was impending in his own day.

Secondly, when the genre of the book is taken into consideration, it provides strong evidence for a basically preterist approach to the book. The book is a prophecy (1:3; 19:10; 22:7, 10, 18, 19). It is an apocalyptic prophecy set within the form of an epistle, but it is a prophecy nonetheless. Why is this important? It is important because it means that our approach to the other prophetic books of the Bible should provide us with some guidance in how we approach this last prophetic book of the Bible. We should approach it and read it in the same basic way. We do not read any of the Old Testament prophetic books as a whole in an idealist manner, and there is precious little in any of them that could be approached in a historicist manner. We recognize that these prophecies were given to specific people in specific historical contexts. Many of the Old Testament prophecies deal with impending judgments upon either Israel or Judah or the nations that oppressed Israel. They also contain glimpses of ultimate future restoration. In short, we take a basically preterist approach to the Old Testament prophetic books, recognizing that they speak largely of impending events, yet also deal at times with the distant future.xix Given that this is the way in which the Old Testament prophetic books are approached, it seems that our presumption should be in favor of the same basic approach to the prophetic book of Revelation.

It is also easy to forget when reading the book of Revelation that it is the capstone of the entire narrative of Scripture. The bulk of the biblical narrative has concerned the story of Israel, leading up to the coming of the promised Messiah. We recall that most of the content of the Old Testament prophetic books concerned the coming exile of Israel and Judah on account of her rejection of God. The prophecies continued right up to the time of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Babylonians in 586 B.C.(cf. Jeremiah; Ezekiel). In the first century, Jesus foretold another coming judgment of Israel on account of her rejection of himself, and he connected this coming judgment with his accession to the throne of the kingdom of God. In light of the history of prophecy in Israel, and in light of the redemptive-historical significance Jesus himself places on this first century judgment of Israel, would it be terribly surprising if at the conclusion of the biblical narrative God once again sent a prophet to declare the impending judgment of Israel as well as the ultimate future restoration? When the genre, the statements of the book itself, and the larger biblical context are taken into consideration, a basically preterist approach to the book emerges as the most appropriate approach to take.xx
 
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Josephus confirms Preterist........is the bane of Futurism.........

Works of Josephus – The Preterist Archive of Realized Eschatology

Flavius Josephus | Jewish priest, scholar, and historian

Flavius Josephus, original name Joseph Ben Matthias, (born ad 37/38, Jerusalem—died ad 100, Rome), Jewish priest, scholar, and historian who wrote valuable works on the Jewish revolt of 66–70 and on earlier Jewish history. His major books are History of the Jewish War (75–79), The Antiquities of the Jews (93), and Against Apion.

Flavius Josephus was born of an aristocratic priestly family in Jerusalem. According to his own account, he was a precocious youth who by the age of 14 was consulted by high priests in matters of Jewish law. At age 16 he undertook a three-year sojourn in the wilderness with the hermit Bannus, a member of one of the ascetic Jewish sects that flourished in Judaea around the time of Christ.

Returning to Jerusalem, he joined the Pharisees—a fact of crucial importance in understanding his later collaboration with the Romans. The Pharisees, despite the unflattering portrayal of them in the New Testament, were for the most part intensely religious Jews and adhered to a strict though nonliteral observance of the Torah.

History of the Destruction of Jerusalem & Josephan Studies Archives

Flavius Josephus, a Jewish priest and Pharisee, was put in command of the national resistance in Galilee at the time of Israel's revolt against Rome. When he was captured at Jotapata; his life was spared upon his prediction to rival Vespasian, that the Roman general would soon become emperor. Upon the fulfillment of this prophecy shortly thereafter, he was commissioned to provide his captors with a history of the Jewish people, although he initially wrote a history of the Roman-Jewish war suited for both a Roman and a Jewish audience. His works, disputed though they may be regarding accuracy, are an indispensable source on the history of Roman Judea.
========================
Was Flavius Josephus familiar with the Apocalypse of John?

John's Revelation - “And there were noises and thundering and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.” (16:18)

Josephus - “for there broke out a prodigious storm in the night, with the utmost violence, and very strong winds, with the largest showers of rain, with continued lightnings, terrible thunderings, and amazing concussions and bellowings of the earth, that was in an earthquake. These things were a manifest indication that some destruction was coming upon men, when the system of the world was put into this disorder; and any one would guess that these wonders foreshowed some grand calamities that were coming” (“Wars of the Jews” 4:4:5) John's
==========================
Josephus Parallels? Revelation 16:19 and Wars of the Jews 5:1:1

Revelation - "Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.” (16:19)

Josephus - “it so happened that the sedition at Jerusalem was revived, and parted into three factions, and that one faction fought against the other; which partition in such evil cases may be said to be a good thing, and the effect of divine justice.” (5:1:1)
==============================
Josephus Parallels? Revelation 16:21 and Wars of the Jews 5:6:3

John's Revelation - “And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent.” (16:21)

Josephus - “Now the stones that were cast were of the weight of a talent, and were carried two furlongs and further. The blow they gave was no way to be sustained, not only by those that stood first in the way, but by those that were beyond them for a great space. As for the Jews, they at first watched the coming of the stone, for it was of a white color, and could therefore not only be perceived by the great noise it made, but could be seen also before it came by its brightness;” (5:6:3)....................

===============================
Matthew 24:6
“Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Mark 13:7
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled for is binding to be becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Luke 21:9
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tumults<181>, no may be being frightened<4422>, for is binding these to be becoming,
but not immediately the End<5056>
==============================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted


Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70
=========================
One of the best utube vids I have seen concerning Josephus and the the Jewish Wars leading up to 70 Jerusalem.......

 
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