Fantasy & Magic in Fiction

theoneandonlypencil · Oct 27, 2019

I understand, but we're going to have to agree to disagree. I've given answers with citations to scripture and the original greek textsin-context and with original word meanings in mind, so I'm not sure the Holy Spirit is going to be convicting me anytime soon about this topic. I care deeply about my relationship with God and wouldn't research this topic so much if I didn't believe it was for a good reason.

Bottom line; I see where you're coming from, and it seems like you have your own personal convictions against such things due to (I guess?)bad past experience with real satanic practices. But do not pass judgment onto others where it is disputable, please.

LoricaLady · Oct 27, 2019

No, I have not had bad experiences with satanic practices. I had good experiences with the Holy Spirit opening my eyes to many things.

Nothing is disputable or not disputable. With the Lord. It is either in alignment with His Word or it is not. I am certainly not passing judgment on anyone. I used to call myself an atheist! I used to believe in the pseudo science religion of evolution. I have come a long way and well understand that I am never to judge anyone as that would be totally hypocritical of me. I was just sharing what I believe. Again, I don't want to argue it anymore, though.

I will say this. Research can have it's place. But outside of the Bible, all places we research can have their big time biases. The best place to go for truth is to the Lord. Always. Then research and ask Him to open your eyes to any deceptions or any truths.

theoneandonlypencil · Oct 27, 2019

LoricaLady said:
No, I have not had bad experiences with satanic practices. I had good experiences with the Holy Spirit opening my eyes to many things.

Nothing is disputable or not disputable. With the Lord. It is either in alignment with His Word or it is not. I am certainly not passing judgment on anyone. I used to call myself an atheist! I used to believe in the pseudo science religion of evolution. I have come a long way and well understand that I am never to judge anyone as that would be totally hypocritical of me. I was just sharing what I believe. Again, I don't want to argue it anymore, though.

I will say this. Research can have it's place. But outside of the Bible, all places we research can have their big time biases. The best place to go for truth is to the Lord. Always. Then research and ask Him to open your eyes to any deceptions or any truths.

Lorica, my research IS from the bible(which is God's word)...unless you're implying that all bibles were written in recent-years, using recent-lingo, and in english? The original scriptures were written in a language with different meanings and words that we do not understand. A lot of translations are biased/faulty, so I doubt I'm doing wrong by using my intellect to compare them and find the errors by looking at the original texts and interpretations. And yes, some things are disputable. Read Romans 14.

Anyways, I've already given scripture-based reasoning why I think we have Christian Liberty on this topic without it being ruled as a sin. I can read fantasy and do it for the glory of God--you cannot. There's nothing wrong with that. I, myself, have never been anything but a Christian. Never dabbled in the occult, never believed in atheism or evolution...so, there you have it.

theoneandonlypencil · Oct 27, 2019

Also, there is a danger in only interpreting things from the Holy Spirit. One woman on youtube, GodisGrey, proclaims that God told her(after she studied scripture for years, supposedly)that gay marriage, engaging in gay acts, etc, is not a sin. Obviously that conflicts with what the bible says

LoricaLady · Oct 27, 2019

Of course whatever we feel the Holy Spirit is telling us has to line up with Scriptures, if the issue is about the Father's Word.

We are told "Trust in the Lord and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He" not astrology for example "will direct your paths." Now I was just a baby Christian when I was led to ditch my astrology books so did not even know about that verse.

The Bible also talks about Words of Knowledge and Words of Wisdom. It says "You will hear a voice behind you saying 'This is the way. Walk in it.'" Those verses and many others in the Bible, and many stories from saints in the Bible, certainly show that we can hear from Heaven.

The Bible also says to discern the spirits, i.e. to know the difference between those that are of the Lord and those that are from the enemy. That takes prayer. Messiah told us about the voice of the stranger, i.e. the devil. Yes, he speaks, too. Again, we need to pray.

Not all your research seems to come from the Bible. Not that we can't research outside the Bible.

I will break down on my resolution here and deal with Narnia and C.S. Lewis. There are people, like me, who think Lewis never gave up his paganism and was just basically making a buck off the Bible. For example he talks about "deep magic." He has some young girls dancing with nymphs and naiads who are purely pagan and demonic. Things like that.

I research outside the Bible, too, of course. When I grew in my Christian faith, I saw concerning things in the Chronicles of Narnia, I checked to see if others were also alarmed. Some were. As in this link. The Chronicles of Narnia, C.S. Lewis

The point is that things, and we are particularly discussing literature, can look really good, even Christian, and be a major deception.

You can see what is being said or not in that link, up to you. I used to absolutely love those books! I thought they were Christian. Well, since I saw them through that lens, really they didn't do me any harm. But they do reinforce the idea of magic, and certainly not just for the witch. I wasn't susceptible to feeling witchcraft was attractive either. Different people have different weaknesses.

That's really all I have to say. For real. I just gotta get some things done. I will not come back to read your posts if you leave anymore so I'm not tempted to respond.

You sound like a nice sincere person.

The world is filled with delusion. The father of lies is its prince, so that figures.

May we all come into all truths.

Blessings and bye for real, for real.

Isilwen · Oct 27, 2019

Right there with you, OP!

Have you ever read anything from R.A. Salvatore in regards to the Drow Drizzt? Love those books!

A brief synopsis of who Drizzt is:

"Drizzt Do'Urden's stories are set in the Forgotten Realms campaign setting for Dungeons & Dragons. The character has been a mainstay for author R. A. Salvatore, appearing in his novels for over 20 years. Drizzt is a drow who acts against the drow stereotype, favoring friendship and peace over hatred and violence. His unusual personality creates the conflict that allows Salvatore to create so many novels with stories about courage and friendship. Drizzt fights the dark traits that are inherent in the drow."

theoneandonlypencil · Oct 27, 2019

LoricaLady said:
Of course whatever we feel the Holy Spirit is telling us has to line up with Scriptures, if the issue is about the Father's Word.

We are told "Trust in the Lord and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He" not astrology for example "will direct your paths." Now I was just a baby Christian when I was led to ditch my astrology books so did not even know about that verse.

The Bible also talks about Words of Knowledge and Words of Wisdom. It says "You will hear a voice behind you saying 'This is the way. Walk in it.'" Those verses and many others in the Bible, and many stories from saints in the Bible, certainly show that we can hear from Heaven.

The Bible also says to discern the spirits, i.e. to know the difference between those that are of the Lord and those that are from the enemy. That takes prayer. Messiah told us about the voice of the stranger, i.e. the devil. Yes, he speaks, too. Again, we need to pray.

Not all your research seems to come from the Bible. Not that we can't research outside the Bible.

I will break down on my resolution here and deal with Narnia and C.S. Lewis. There are people, like me, who think Lewis never gave up his paganism and was just basically making a buck off the Bible. For example he talks about "deep magic." He has some young girls dancing with nymphs and naiads who are purely pagan and demonic. Things like that.

I research outside the Bible, too, of course. When I grew in my Christian faith, I saw concerning things in the Chronicles of Narnia, I checked to see if others were also alarmed. Some were. As in this link. The Chronicles of Narnia, C.S. Lewis

The point is that things, and we are particularly discussing literature, can look really good, even Christian, and be a major deception.

You can see what is being said or not in that link, up to you. I used to absolutely love those books! I thought they were Christian. Well, since I saw them through that lens, really they didn't do me any harm. But they do reinforce the idea of magic, and certainly not just for the witch. I wasn't susceptible to feeling witchcraft was attractive either. Different people have different weaknesses.

That's really all I have to say. For real. I just gotta get some things done. I will not come back to read your posts if you leave anymore so I'm not tempted to respond.

You sound like a nice sincere person.

The world is filled with delusion. The father of lies is its prince, so that figures.

May we all come into all truths.

Blessings and bye for real, for real.

I appreciate the link, I've gone through the link's contents and I was aware of(most)of the pagan inclusion in Lewis' Naria series. Personally, I'm not a fan of combining pagan mythology with Christian allegory--but you know? We also celebrate Christmas(which is a pagan tradition), and I myself used to like to read about greek mythology(not because I believed in it, but because I realized they were myths and found them entertaining as stories). I can't pass much judgment since it wasn't true to pagan or Christian beliefs. Lewis merely took concepts and creatures that otherwise would have never existed and molded them into what he wanted for his own fantasy setting(especially since the 'gods' used in his book, to my knowledge, were not actually gods in the story at all).

Anywho, thank you for the interesting conversation. I have no comment about the inclusion of overt pagan symbols in fiction(IE the names of real mythological gods/goddesses, spinoffs of pagan rituals, etc)--but all of the research I did on 'magic' itself was as biblical as possible.

theoneandonlypencil · Oct 27, 2019

Isilwen said:
Right there with you, OP!

Have you ever read anything from R.A. Salvatore in regards to the Drow Drizzt? Love those books!

A brief synopsis of who Drizzt is:

"Drizzt Do'Urden's stories are set in the Forgotten Realms campaign setting for Dungeons & Dragons. The character has been a mainstay for author R. A. Salvatore, appearing in his novels for over 20 years. Drizzt is a drow who acts against the drow stereotype, favoring friendship and peace over hatred and violence. His unusual personality creates the conflict that allows Salvatore to create so many novels with stories about courage and friendship. Drizzt fights the dark traits that are inherent in the drow."

I haven't heard of R.A. Salvatore! To be honest, I write more fantasy than I read it xD Any other fantasy stuff either comes from anime, video games, or the occasional dnd game LOL. It sounds really interesting though~

mindlight · Oct 27, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
Hello everyone!

First off, I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section--it's the one I'm most familiar with, and I'm not sure where else to put it since all of the different forum categories on here get really confusing ^ ^; I'd just like to get non-denomination exclusive opinions on my assessment, here.

Okay so, these are reasons why I have come to the conclusion that I do not think watching, writing, reading, or playing games of the fantasy/magic genre is sinful.

Before I start, a disclaimer; I absolutely AGREE that witchcraft, in its biblical sense, is a HUGE no-no and that we're to take the occult very seriously. I did not come here to challenge that thought or argue with scripture, for certain. I also think that if you are personally uncomfortable with viewing any fantasy/magic related media, God most certainly has his reasons(whether it be him protecting you from a spiritual weak spot or something else)and YOU SHOULD LISTEN.

This is, instead, for people like me who enjoy the genre but do not want to give off the false impression of being a part of something scripture is so serious about--and to most importantly, find a way to glorify God using the imagination he's given us.

Alright, so here are my points;

The meaning of 'Witchcraft'
As I understand it, biblical witchcraft seems to differ greatly from what a lot of the general-magic oriented fiction has to offer these days. Not only does it ALWAYS involve consulting demons/spirits, but it is almost always used in a selfish, rebellious manner and goes completely against the will of God. They specialized in bewitching people, making potions, palm reading, communicating with the dead...etc. Do not make the mistake that if one uses it for 'good' that it is so. 'White magic' does not exist; as long as whatever power being used is not from God, it is sinful and bad.

Now, it's also useful to look at most modern depictions of magic. Most magic in media, today, is a 'gift' in terms of the fictional world's lore. It is part of the natural setting created by THE creator of the world. You don't consort with spirits, and you certainly don't mumble incantations to talk to the dead. Magic is simply making something that, to us, would normally be physically impossible, possible. Before anyone shouts 'HERESY! Satan is tricking you!' let me state something else--if performing impossible feats is considered sinful in all cases, is God's own people such as Moses and the Apostles committing sins when they perform miracles? Of course not! And the answer why is simple; The ability to perform miracles is a gift from God, not some counterfeit 'witchcraft' given to them by demons in order to satisfy the lust of the flesh. The term 'miracle' is described as the following(from dictionary.com);
"noun
an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.

such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God.

a wonder; marvel.

a wonderful or surpassing example of some quality:a miracle of modern acoustics."

I think that a great majority of what we, as Christians, enjoy in fiction is the resemblance of the great miracles that we read about in the bible. If you think about it, witchcraft isn't even the original thing--it's just a knockoff of what God has been doing for ages. (after all, satan is the king of copycats, isn't he? ;3 ) Another worthy note is that the act of shouting a random word during casting of a 'spell'(english or otherwise) is not it in and of itself sinful unless you're calling upon some entity. I bring this up because it seems quite common in some cartoons and games that characters shout something symbolizing what they're going to do before they do it--even 'spells' that use some kind of command first, I cannot say is witchcraft on the sole note that in the same series, I see character using their magic without uttering a single phrase. Perhaps it's to look cool, no? Either way, 'spells' in this sense are also not biblical, as spells in the bible were meant to enchant people and manipulate them--not cast fireballs or shoot lightning. Finally, I'd imagine that if a creator(in a fictional setting) willingly gave his creations full range over magic, there wouldn't be 'good' or 'bad' magic--but whether you use it for 'good' or 'bad' reasons. Much like we can use guns for good or bad things. What's important, is that the source of the power comes from natural means in terms of the world setting, or the higher power--never demons or spirits.

SIDE NOTE: It's also useful to note that the terms 'witchcraft' and 'sorcerer' or 'spell' were not the original words used in scripture. So it is not the name, but the idea/meaning that is carried by them. Perhaps we should just invent new words for these things xD

World setting & context
Now then, since I've explained my part on why I think most mainstream 'magic' isn't witchcraft magic at all, let me also talk about why world settings and context matters.

For one, stories always go one of two ways; there's a divine power, or there's not. Where there is a divine power, I'd first examine whether or not the world's 'creator' follows basic morals. I say 'basic' because I do not(sadly)expect all shows to portray perfectly biblical morals; some 'divine beings' in fiction do not care if it's creations pro-create outside of marriage or swear. However, if it follows most of the basics such as no murder, no 'dark' practices(especially ones that rebel against the creator), no adultery, justice & peace, kindness & good-will, etc...you get the point. But if it follows these principles, then I'd say the story itself is OK. Subsequently, if the creator in the fictional universe decides to give power to its creations; is it not a parallel to the likes of how God gave the ability to perform miracles to his chosen children? Moreover, a lot of fiction also includes 'dark' magic or practices--some sort of boundary. I believe THAT would be the proper equivalent of witchcraft.

Now, if for some reason the fictional creator promotes violence, occult practice, demon-worshipping, etc etc...then no, it is not suitable for ANY Christian.

When it comes to stories without direct mention of a higher power, I think the important thing is to not assume that it's all the work of demons, either. If it was, how could there be ANY good in it? If a character is born with/acquires a special power that is part of the story's setting in some way, we cannot know whether or not it's from the equivalent of 'God's goodness' or 'Satan's wickedness'. So instead, I urge you to look at how they use this power and what it is. If they are banishing evil with a kind of pure magic or using their newfound(possibly)ability to do good, we can assume that it would be a gift from their 'creator'. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit, after all. To add to this, also look at their intention; were they SEEKING something that would give them power, or did the power find them? Is the power gained from wicked spirits, or is the magic simply a natural element of the world's setting? All of these are important factors to consider. (For example, I write stories with vampires, werewolves and other kinds of monsters in them. but, I write them as a race--not a demon. They are morally neutral, like a lot of humans.)

"But if we can watch tv with magic and fantasy, can't we say it's not a sin to watch inappropriate contentography?"

In case anyone is going to ask this, let me answer right now; no, it's not okay to watch inappropriate contentography. We've already gone over why magic in media isn't really the same as what it is in the bible, but here's the thing about inappropriate contentography and pretty much all of the other sins listed in the bible; they're all bad. There is no 'miracle vs black magic' comparison to be made. There isn't any kind of 'fornication, adultery, lying, murder, etc' that is used for 'good' by God or anyone else, unlike miracles being the natural 'good' opposite to witchcraft. inappropriate content is inappropriate content no matter if the world is fictional or not, period. (Plus we already went over how if you're interested in enjoying ANY kind of fantasy media, it should mirror Christianly traits and such)

The problem with writing/reading 'Christian' stories
Okay, so this is my last main point. One issue I have with writing 'Christian' specific media, is this; I feel like I'm playing God, and that feels VERY wrong. Don't misunderstand me, I do think there's plenty of good Christian works out there--but all of them are based in reality, and are written in a way that you could probably imagine it as someone's 'normal' life story. If I were to add any miracle or overly-fictitious element to a story where OUR God reigned over, I'd feel disgustingly awful because I'm just a human! I could never even TRY to comprehend what he might do or the things he might allow, nor do I want to try! I write heavy fiction without Christianity(in the real sense) in it because I prefer to add elements or a fake religious system that MIRRORS Christianity. Then, it doesn't feel like I'm thinking or acting for God--in fact, it feels more like I'm writing my own mini-love letter back to him. I take great inspiration from the way he designed us and the things around us, and I like to show that inspiration off in the worlds and religions I create in them. If I ever use 'real world' locations or settings(which I don't prefer to do), I usually treat it as a 'copy'--not the real thing. At its core, all of my writings, sad or happy, adventure or horror, I do in the glory and for the glory of God. Same with the media I take in--I don't attribute the wonderful Christian-like undertones of any fictional or non-fictional media to anything but God. Because how can good exist without him? It can't. He gifted us all with imaginations, and I think the expression of miracles and wonders in writing has been perverted by satan, more than anything.

BONUS POINT: Harry Potter
Alright, I did want to add this in here, though, because....you know, it's important I think. Despite everything I've said up to this point, I'm really on the fence about Harry Potter in particular. It's not the same thing as creator-given magic in a totally fictional world with its own definition of spells and abilities, but instead, it's VERY much based in our world and...a lot of it does seem to, instead of stripping the words of their original meaning to fit a more 'Godly' sense, embrace the original meanings of Witchcraft. I'm not going to rule them out just on the basis that they call themselves witches and warlocks(Little witch academia, after all, does the same--and I think it's a harmless show)however, the problem is that it's not only rooted strongly in the real world but it doesn't follow the same fictitious 'magic' that we know. It definitely has a more 'occult' vibe, and even the students at hogwarts attend a dark arts class(as if that were...okay?). This is a deadly combo because I do believe that Christians can be lead into dark things if they get overly interested the way it's presented it Harry Potter. It also concerns me that rumors have spread about some of the incantations or practices being real. Now, can I say for sure it's a sin to read or watch harry potter? No, I don't think anyone can, and I'm not even sure it's 100% bad. I don't think you're going to hell either for watching/reading it either, but I personally think if you decide to five into the potterverse, you should fully be aware of WHAT you're watching, and WHY you're watching it. Time would probably be better spend enjoying something like Lord of the Rings, or Narnia--both series involve magic, but in a sense where it's a natural factor of the fictional worlds provided, and not based so heavily on stereotypical witchcraft.

Anyways, I hope this was of interest to someone! I'd love to hear feedback on whether y'all think my point is valid. I'm trying my hardest to honor God in everything I do c':

I enjoyed reading through your post. Some points that came to mind include the following:

1) We have a very well entrenched tradition of Christian deceit for evangelistic reasons. It seems for years Christians have made up stories of miracles, angelic visitations and experiences of the Divine that encouraged a number of people to commit for false reasons but who later stayed Christians for more substantial reasons. I think it is wrong to write lies but is possible that God sometimes uses lying spirits to achieve his ends.

2) It is clearly blasphemous to say God did something when it is contradicted by scripture or clear observable facts but is it blasphemy to speculate on the basis of who God is and through the cracks of verifiable history about how God might have resolved a problem or responded to a situation. Writing a fictional book in which Gods involvement is speculated and theological themes explored in an edifying way must be different from asserting God definitely did X so we must do Y.

3) The JRR Tolkein/CS Lewis concept of parallel worlds adds a degree of literary licence as to what rules, physical and spiritual, might apply in such worlds. Gandalf seems good while Voldemort in Harry Potter is just evil. This also allows the metaphors created to explore Christian themes of love and sacrifice in ways that reality might prohibit. Aragorn was a hero of mine growing up, the anonymous skillful courageous King in waiting doing good deeds in the shadows waiting for his moment, always behaving with honour and dignity. But of course he never existed. Does that matter if he inspired thousands of young men?

timothyu · Oct 27, 2019

LoricaLady said:
David Copperfield who calls himself an illusionist? The latter does NOT call himself a magician or claim to do magic. Again, you are conflating two separate things if you mean the illusionist. Magic and illusions are no way the same thing. Magic can, and always does, certainly involve illusion. (That is, it involves the illusion that what you are doing is harmless or helpful when really it leads to destruction in the end.) But illusion does not always involve magic by any means. Shouldn't you know that already?

Whether a rabbit out of a hat or a car passing overhead, it is all the same. Entertainment.

timothyu · Oct 27, 2019

LoricaLady said:
That's typical for what comes from Satan.

'And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:' And no astrology, no wise men or star, etc.

theoneandonlypencil · Oct 27, 2019

mindlight said:
I enjoyed reading through your post. Some points that came to mind include the following:

1) We have a very well entrenched tradition of Christian deceit for evangelistic reasons. It seems for years Christians have made up stories of miracles, angelic visitations and experiences of the Divine that encouraged a number of people to commit for false reasons but who later stayed Christians for more substantial reasons. I think it is wrong to write lies but is possible that God sometimes uses lying spirits to achieve his ends.

2) It is clearly blasphemous to say God did something when it is contradicted by scripture or clear observable facts but is it blasphemy to speculate on the basis of who God is and through the cracks of verifiable history about how God might have resolved a problem or responded to a situation. Writing a fictional book in which Gods involvement is speculated and theological themes explored in an edifying way must be different from asserting God definitely did X so we must do Y.

3) The JRR Tolkein/CS Lewis concept of parallel worlds adds a degree of literary licence as to what rules, physical and spiritual, might apply in such worlds. Gandalf seems good while Voldemort in Harry Potter is just evil. This also allows the metaphors created to explore Christian themes of love and sacrifice in ways that reality might prohibit. Aragorn was a hero of mine growing up, the anonymous skillful courageous King in waiting doing good deeds in the shadows waiting for his moment, always behaving with honour and dignity. But of course he never existed. Does that matter if he inspired thousands of young men?

I agree with all of these points ^ ^ I hope nowhere was I accidentally insinuating that attributing non-scriptural divine acts were OK. Like I said, one of the chief things separating fictional magic from real magic(besides the basis on how they work) is that if anyone claims it in the real world...it is 100% not from God.

I super agree with points 2 and 3. One of the main reasons I like fantasy is because I've always felt EXTREMELY 'off' ever directly writing for/about God in a way that was not supported by scripture. For example, if I were to write a story where talking cats existed, I can't attribute that to a 'what if God did this' scenario--no way, no how. I feel it is definitely sinful to make 'assumptions' for God, so that's why I prefer made-up worlds. In that way, it's kind of like making your own little universe and being inspired by how God made ours; the only difference is we're free to add things that don't naturally exist while having the fun challenge of getting it to follow our Christian values. A good story/character can definitely influence someone, fictional or not.

zoidar · Oct 27, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
Hello everyone!

First off, I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section--it's the one I'm most familiar with, and I'm not sure where else to put it since all of the different forum categories on here get really confusing ^ ^; I'd just like to get non-denomination exclusive opinions on my assessment, here.

Okay so, these are reasons why I have come to the conclusion that I do not think watching, writing, reading, or playing games of the fantasy/magic genre is sinful.

Before I start, a disclaimer; I absolutely AGREE that witchcraft, in its biblical sense, is a HUGE no-no and that we're to take the occult very seriously. I did not come here to challenge that thought or argue with scripture, for certain. I also think that if you are personally uncomfortable with viewing any fantasy/magic related media, God most certainly has his reasons(whether it be him protecting you from a spiritual weak spot or something else)and YOU SHOULD LISTEN.

This is, instead, for people like me who enjoy the genre but do not want to give off the false impression of being a part of something scripture is so serious about--and to most importantly, find a way to glorify God using the imagination he's given us.

Alright, so here are my points;

The meaning of 'Witchcraft'
As I understand it, biblical witchcraft seems to differ greatly from what a lot of the general-magic oriented fiction has to offer these days. Not only does it ALWAYS involve consulting demons/spirits, but it is almost always used in a selfish, rebellious manner and goes completely against the will of God. They specialized in bewitching people, making potions, palm reading, communicating with the dead...etc. Do not make the mistake that if one uses it for 'good' that it is so. 'White magic' does not exist; as long as whatever power being used is not from God, it is sinful and bad.

Now, it's also useful to look at most modern depictions of magic. Most magic in media, today, is a 'gift' in terms of the fictional world's lore. It is part of the natural setting created by THE creator of the world. You don't consort with spirits, and you certainly don't mumble incantations to talk to the dead. Magic is simply making something that, to us, would normally be physically impossible, possible. Before anyone shouts 'HERESY! Satan is tricking you!' let me state something else--if performing impossible feats is considered sinful in all cases, is God's own people such as Moses and the Apostles committing sins when they perform miracles? Of course not! And the answer why is simple; The ability to perform miracles is a gift from God, not some counterfeit 'witchcraft' given to them by demons in order to satisfy the lust of the flesh. The term 'miracle' is described as the following(from dictionary.com);
"noun
an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.

such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God.

a wonder; marvel.

a wonderful or surpassing example of some quality:a miracle of modern acoustics."

I think that a great majority of what we, as Christians, enjoy in fiction is the resemblance of the great miracles that we read about in the bible. If you think about it, witchcraft isn't even the original thing--it's just a knockoff of what God has been doing for ages. (after all, satan is the king of copycats, isn't he? ;3 ) Another worthy note is that the act of shouting a random word during casting of a 'spell'(english or otherwise) is not it in and of itself sinful unless you're calling upon some entity. I bring this up because it seems quite common in some cartoons and games that characters shout something symbolizing what they're going to do before they do it--even 'spells' that use some kind of command first, I cannot say is witchcraft on the sole note that in the same series, I see character using their magic without uttering a single phrase. Perhaps it's to look cool, no? Either way, 'spells' in this sense are also not biblical, as spells in the bible were meant to enchant people and manipulate them--not cast fireballs or shoot lightning. Finally, I'd imagine that if a creator(in a fictional setting) willingly gave his creations full range over magic, there wouldn't be 'good' or 'bad' magic--but whether you use it for 'good' or 'bad' reasons. Much like we can use guns for good or bad things. What's important, is that the source of the power comes from natural means in terms of the world setting, or the higher power--never demons or spirits.

SIDE NOTE: It's also useful to note that the terms 'witchcraft' and 'sorcerer' or 'spell' were not the original words used in scripture. So it is not the name, but the idea/meaning that is carried by them. Perhaps we should just invent new words for these things xD

World setting & context
Now then, since I've explained my part on why I think most mainstream 'magic' isn't witchcraft magic at all, let me also talk about why world settings and context matters.

For one, stories always go one of two ways; there's a divine power, or there's not. Where there is a divine power, I'd first examine whether or not the world's 'creator' follows basic morals. I say 'basic' because I do not(sadly)expect all shows to portray perfectly biblical morals; some 'divine beings' in fiction do not care if it's creations pro-create outside of marriage or swear. However, if it follows most of the basics such as no murder, no 'dark' practices(especially ones that rebel against the creator), no adultery, justice & peace, kindness & good-will, etc...you get the point. But if it follows these principles, then I'd say the story itself is OK. Subsequently, if the creator in the fictional universe decides to give power to its creations; is it not a parallel to the likes of how God gave the ability to perform miracles to his chosen children? Moreover, a lot of fiction also includes 'dark' magic or practices--some sort of boundary. I believe THAT would be the proper equivalent of witchcraft.

Now, if for some reason the fictional creator promotes violence, occult practice, demon-worshipping, etc etc...then no, it is not suitable for ANY Christian.

When it comes to stories without direct mention of a higher power, I think the important thing is to not assume that it's all the work of demons, either. If it was, how could there be ANY good in it? If a character is born with/acquires a special power that is part of the story's setting in some way, we cannot know whether or not it's from the equivalent of 'God's goodness' or 'Satan's wickedness'. So instead, I urge you to look at how they use this power and what it is. If they are banishing evil with a kind of pure magic or using their newfound(possibly)ability to do good, we can assume that it would be a gift from their 'creator'. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit, after all. To add to this, also look at their intention; were they SEEKING something that would give them power, or did the power find them? Is the power gained from wicked spirits, or is the magic simply a natural element of the world's setting? All of these are important factors to consider. (For example, I write stories with vampires, werewolves and other kinds of monsters in them. but, I write them as a race--not a demon. They are morally neutral, like a lot of humans.)

"But if we can watch tv with magic and fantasy, can't we say it's not a sin to watch inappropriate contentography?"

In case anyone is going to ask this, let me answer right now; no, it's not okay to watch inappropriate contentography. We've already gone over why magic in media isn't really the same as what it is in the bible, but here's the thing about inappropriate contentography and pretty much all of the other sins listed in the bible; they're all bad. There is no 'miracle vs black magic' comparison to be made. There isn't any kind of 'fornication, adultery, lying, murder, etc' that is used for 'good' by God or anyone else, unlike miracles being the natural 'good' opposite to witchcraft. inappropriate content is inappropriate content no matter if the world is fictional or not, period. (Plus we already went over how if you're interested in enjoying ANY kind of fantasy media, it should mirror Christianly traits and such)

The problem with writing/reading 'Christian' stories
Okay, so this is my last main point. One issue I have with writing 'Christian' specific media, is this; I feel like I'm playing God, and that feels VERY wrong. Don't misunderstand me, I do think there's plenty of good Christian works out there--but all of them are based in reality, and are written in a way that you could probably imagine it as someone's 'normal' life story. If I were to add any miracle or overly-fictitious element to a story where OUR God reigned over, I'd feel disgustingly awful because I'm just a human! I could never even TRY to comprehend what he might do or the things he might allow, nor do I want to try! I write heavy fiction without Christianity(in the real sense) in it because I prefer to add elements or a fake religious system that MIRRORS Christianity. Then, it doesn't feel like I'm thinking or acting for God--in fact, it feels more like I'm writing my own mini-love letter back to him. I take great inspiration from the way he designed us and the things around us, and I like to show that inspiration off in the worlds and religions I create in them. If I ever use 'real world' locations or settings(which I don't prefer to do), I usually treat it as a 'copy'--not the real thing. At its core, all of my writings, sad or happy, adventure or horror, I do in the glory and for the glory of God. Same with the media I take in--I don't attribute the wonderful Christian-like undertones of any fictional or non-fictional media to anything but God. Because how can good exist without him? It can't. He gifted us all with imaginations, and I think the expression of miracles and wonders in writing has been perverted by satan, more than anything.

BONUS POINT: Harry Potter
Alright, I did want to add this in here, though, because....you know, it's important I think. Despite everything I've said up to this point, I'm really on the fence about Harry Potter in particular. It's not the same thing as creator-given magic in a totally fictional world with its own definition of spells and abilities, but instead, it's VERY much based in our world and...a lot of it does seem to, instead of stripping the words of their original meaning to fit a more 'Godly' sense, embrace the original meanings of Witchcraft. I'm not going to rule them out just on the basis that they call themselves witches and warlocks(Little witch academia, after all, does the same--and I think it's a harmless show)however, the problem is that it's not only rooted strongly in the real world but it doesn't follow the same fictitious 'magic' that we know. It definitely has a more 'occult' vibe, and even the students at hogwarts attend a dark arts class(as if that were...okay?). This is a deadly combo because I do believe that Christians can be lead into dark things if they get overly interested the way it's presented it Harry Potter. It also concerns me that rumors have spread about some of the incantations or practices being real. Now, can I say for sure it's a sin to read or watch harry potter? No, I don't think anyone can, and I'm not even sure it's 100% bad. I don't think you're going to hell either for watching/reading it either, but I personally think if you decide to five into the potterverse, you should fully be aware of WHAT you're watching, and WHY you're watching it. Time would probably be better spend enjoying something like Lord of the Rings, or Narnia--both series involve magic, but in a sense where it's a natural factor of the fictional worlds provided, and not based so heavily on stereotypical witchcraft.

Anyways, I hope this was of interest to someone! I'd love to hear feedback on whether y'all think my point is valid. I'm trying my hardest to honor God in everything I do c':

When I got saved I got rid of my fantasy collection. It no longer appealed to me. It got to mean something...

Swan7 · Oct 27, 2019

I see a lot of what you're saying and honestly I'm there too. God has been using things around me since I was a kid (like Sailor Moon and Final Fantasy VII) to get my attention. God can certainly use the world for our good.

Just a heads up on the Astrology comment:
Astrology today is not the same as for the 3 wise men. They were real astrologers who looked for the signs of God - and followed that sign straight to the Messiah. There's astrology meant for His signs and astrology meant for divination (good vs evil).

As for the Harry Potter stuff, it honestly doesn't bother me because of its context. I actually saw it as a physical and spiritual realm in war, which is going on today until Christ's return. I think it largely depends what our focus is on - and I believe that's what you were getting at. My focus isn't on the dark things of this world... the whole world is pagan if you really wanna get technical. Yet, I choose to focus on God since He's the Truth the Way and the Life. It's why we need Him so much due to how this world is, due to the fall of humanity, but we have Victory because of Christ.
In saying that, I also think knowledge of what's going on in the world is fine as long as we don't take our eyes off of Him.

timothyu · Oct 27, 2019

Swan7 said:
There's astrology meant for His signs and astrology meant for divination (good vs evil).

Is that an example of self justification in action or that there are two sides to everything in this world.

Swan7 · Oct 27, 2019

timothyu said:
Is that not an example of self justification in action.

I guess that means you haven't read about them? Or about God's way of communicating with us? You're assuming something instead of asking. Just pointing that out.

Swan7 · Oct 27, 2019

Swan7 said:
I guess that means you haven't read about them? Or about God's way of communicating with us? You're assuming something instead of asking. Just pointing that out.

timothyu said:
Is that an example of self justification in action or that there are two sides to everything in this world.

Ok I see you edited.

Yes there are two sides of every coin. So to speak.

Isilwen · Oct 27, 2019

zoidar said:
When I got saved I got rid of my fantasy collection. It no longer appealed to me. It got to mean something...

Different things happen to different people when they are saved.

Maybe there was something sinful in your interaction with fantasy as an example.

zoidar · Oct 27, 2019

Isilwen said:
Different things happen to different people when they are saved.

Maybe there was something sinful in your interaction with fantasy as an example.

It was my passion in life, my "god".

Isilwen · Oct 27, 2019

zoidar said:
It was my passion in life, my "god".

There you go. It was my god per your statement.

Not all who are into fantasy make it their god. I enjoy the story or the game. I don't make it a god to me. It remains a story or a game.

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