'Please leave': why the Sydney archbishop's same-sex marriage message has Anglicans rattled

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SkyWriting

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With love.
Letting folks do things that will eternally damn them is NOT love.

That sounds very moral, but does not come from Jesus.


Matthew 7
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Luke 6
37 “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

John 7
24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

James 4
11 Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

James 4
12 There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Romans 2
Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

Ephesians 4
29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

Romans 14
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ...

Matthew 7
5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

John 8
7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Matthew 7
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
 
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SkyWriting

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That is an interesting comment because nowadays homosexuality being a private thing is far from the reality. We are bombarded left, right and centre with it and anyone who doesn't agree with it is derided, mocked and pretty much hated.
Many militant groups seem to enjoy going to institutions or businesses that they know will cause disruption and cry foul when they are not embraced.:confused:


I have lived in a gay neighborhood for over 20 years and never seen any homosexual sex acts. In my lifetime I have not seen any "gay disruptions." But I have seen heterosexual sex acts on a blanket in the park while riding my bike.
 
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Heavenhome

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I have lived in a gay neighborhood for over 20 years and never seen any homosexual sex acts. In my lifetime I have not seen any "gay disruptions." But I have seen heterosexual sex acts on a blanket in the park while riding my bike.

I think you have misunderstood my post. By bombarding I am talking of the media bombardment here in Australia and within my community, not witnessing the actual act.
If I was in any PUBLIC area and saw either hetro or homosexual acts I would be reporting it.
I do not treat anyone different from anyone else, I have family members who identify being gay. ( and I love and fervently pray for them) but the whole gist of the OP is homosexuality and the marriage of them within the church.
Which does in no way, equate with what God says about it in the Bible.
Gods Word and that's good enough for me.
 
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SkyWriting

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I think you have misunderstood my post. By bombarding I am talking of the media bombardment here in Australia and within my community, not witnessing the actual act.

And what are you being "bombarded with left right and center"? The facts that gays exist?
They want to eat your children? What is the message you find abhorrent?
That they should be allowed to live?
 
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Heavenhome

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Posters in shop windows, health centres, doctors, TV, ads, rainbow flags, to name a few, seriously I don't need or WANT to know about peoples sexuality, I treat everyone how I would like to be treated regardless of their sexuality.
This is my last post here because honestly you are derailing the OP.
I have answered enough and don't want to be doing the same.
Regards:wave:
 
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GingerBeer

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Wow, I'm in Australia too and my goodness I would say the opposite, even our council flies the rainbow flag, as does the community health centre and shop windows display posters. And I am in the country and I'm talking of our regional town.
That flag is rather attractive to look at.
 
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Anthony2019

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First up I want to apologize for calling you a coward. That was stupid on my part.
That's OK. I was fairly sure you didn't mean it that way! :)
I want to use an analogy. We have two teams, Satan's team and Jesus' team. The human race is either on one side or the other. Let us take football (soccer). You have two teams say ManU and ManC.
What would happen if the manager or players of ManC started telling the manager and players of ManU how to play and what to do? What do you think would happen if the manager of ManU rocked up to ManC and demanded to be the manager whilst still managing ManU? It is not going to happen is it?
So here we are with our two teams, S & J and players on the S team are demanding that us on J's team play by their rules and accept their players whilst still playing on S team. How stupid is that? When they transfer across by the rules then that is ok. But here you are a supposed player on the J team sticking up for the right of those on S's team to play on our team. Do you see the problem?
I would see it as a much bigger problem if the members of the J team were not abiding by their own rules. The rules set out for us were very simple and reiterated throughout the New Testament: "Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law." (Romans 13:8-10). What grieves me most about the church, and not just the Anglican Church, is that we seem to be developing a litmus test on who or who is not worthy to be part of God's kingdom and are closing the door of grace to a growing number of people: LGBT's, abortionists; people who do not think or feel the same way we do. Anyone whose lives and circumstances we do not understand, or more to the point, whose lives and circumstances we have no desire to understand. We have become very good at expressing our opinions and judgements, and very good at quoting scripture, but we have not learned the art of being a listener. We are very quick to highlight the pride and hypocrisy or others, but we ourselves have failed to demonstrate humility. Romans 13:10 states that "love does not harm to a neighbour", yet as evidenced by Archbishop Davies' own words, the rhetoric the church is using is becoming increasingly harmful, divisive and damaging.
 
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JacksBratt

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Satan is doing a great job with the mainline Churches were they are abandoning Christ at the speed of light
Kinda brings this to mind:

2 Timothy 4:3-4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
 
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SkyWriting

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In the context of the church,sodomites should be excluded and in culture Gods will is for them to get the Leviticus law.

Sure, sure.
Sure?

5Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim that anything comes from us, but our competence comes from God. 6And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7Now if the ministry of death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at the face of Moses because of its fleeting glory,

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

Mark 12
31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Romans 15
2 Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up.

Galatians 5
14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Proverbs 3
29 Do not plan evil against your neighbor, who dwells trustingly beside you.

Matthew 7
12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Proverbs 25
A man who bears false witness against his neighbor is like a war club, or a sword, or a sharp arrow.

Luke 10
27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”

Matthew 19
19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Romans 13
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Luke 6
31 And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

Leviticus 19
18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

Leviticus 19
16 You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand up against the life of your neighbor: I am the Lord. “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
 
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AlexDTX

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section9+1

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Christians have to judge on issues of morality and behavior. If they don't then what could be wrong with anything? Right and wrong disappear. And the authority behind the judging is scripture. Even when you argue against judging issues you are judging those who disagree. It's unavoidable unless you go through life like a rock or a stump without any views on anything at all. But then where is your justification in calling yourself a Christian even come from if you have no standards at all? Being a light to the world has nothing to do with embracing its darkness.
 
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Daniel C

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Sure, sure.
Sure?

5Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim that anything comes from us, but our competence comes from God. 6And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7Now if the ministry of death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at the face of Moses because of its fleeting glory,

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

Mark 12
31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Romans 15
2 Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up.

Galatians 5
14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Proverbs 3
29 Do not plan evil against your neighbor, who dwells trustingly beside you.

Matthew 7
12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Proverbs 25
A man who bears false witness against his neighbor is like a war club, or a sword, or a sharp arrow.

Luke 10
27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”

Matthew 19
19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Romans 13
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Luke 6
31 And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

Leviticus 19
18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

Leviticus 19
16 You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand up against the life of your neighbor: I am the Lord. “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.


I don't think they are my neighbour. I think they (sodomites) are reprobate rejected by God:


Romans 1
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient


If God rejected them what authority do I have to accept them into the church/community?
 
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Quartermaine

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My comment is with respect to you, ma'am. Jesus cleared the temple of the money changers and I rather don't believe he took into account appropriately the severe consequences. The problem with many Christians today is that we are too ready and willing to accept sin as a charitable, Christian thing. We all sin...for sure. But we are to own up to it and repent of it, not defend it.

Jesus did not tell the adulterous woman to "Go, keep sinning and be more inclusive and accepting". Jesus told her to go and sin no more.
on the sermon on the mount did Jesus point to various people and say "please leave"?
 
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Daniel C

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I am curious to know what this "preserved word" is.

Well two points. God promised to preserve his word:

psalm 12:6-7
6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.


Now IMO I believe that preservation is now in the form of the KJV but we shouldn't debate this here because it's off topic.
 
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Quartermaine

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Then you are the problem not the solution. I give you the scenario. You are a witness at the white throne judgement and it is the turn of a homosexual that you know to be judged. At the end of the judgement Jesus throws that person into the fire and then looks at you. You will feel good because you were INCLUSIVE?
would you take delight in witnessing someone thrown to the fire?
 
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Daniel C

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on the sermon on the mount did Jesus point to various people and say "please leave"?


Ha! If a sodomite outed themself in a crowd like that they would be stoned to death because of the previous anti-sodomite Leviticus laws.

Jesus was the co-author of the Leviticus laws.
 
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Quartermaine

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I would say your church doctrine is just man made and not the preserved word of God. A Self-serving regime that just wants to please the predominately heathen culture around them to avoid criticism.

In the context of the church,sodomites should be excluded and in culture Gods will is for them to get the Leviticus law.

Why would this archbishop be disappointed by not getting an Amen from you? I would be worried if you agreed with my theology based on the unBiblical"radical" things I've heard from your post.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

so you want to kill homosexuals?
 
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