Poll: Majority Says First Amendment Goes Too Far

Kentonio said:

The laws in the UK have been pushed too far at times, but they still beat the hell out of a system that allows people to scream at grieving parents at their children’s funeral that ‘God hates them’ without repercussion.

The way some Americans talk about free speech as if it was a binary thing is childish and ridiculous. EVERY country on earth now and for all human history have imposed limitations on free speech, and the US is no different. If you want to set your particular free speech line in a way that allows abject cruelty and barbarism, then just do it and stop pretending you’re morally superior for it.

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Back in the day, people said whatever they wanted to in America, someone told you something, and you could tell them something in return.

Everyone had thick skin...that's equality, IMHO!

BeholdenGlory said:

I'm sure they did, but so what? Did he or did he not get arrested for quoting Churchill and how can that be posssibly defended.

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He got arrested in the same manner that Churchill would get arrested today, if he used those hateful and inflammatory words.

Many commonly held values of the late 19th Century would not be tolerated today. Societies evolve...

I'm not sure what reminded me of it, but I was reminded of a speech at the end of the film, The American President, with the relevant part starting at about 1:03.


And for those that don't wish to watch the video:

"America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours." You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms.

"Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free."

BeholdenGlory said:

Or otherwise filed under, "Reasons for another civil war".

Majority of Americans Want to Scrap First Amendment, Polling Finds - Campaign for Free Speech

Here is how the poll results, released Wednesday, break down:

• 57% of millennials say the First Amendment goes too far, while 35% disagree.
• 47% of baby boomers say the First Amendment goes too far, compared to 48% who disagree.
• 57% of all those polled say the government should be able to take action against newspapers and TV stations for biased content, compared to 35% who disagree.
• 48% say hate speech should be against the law, while 31% say it should be allowed.

Read Newsmax: Poll: Majority Says First Amendment Goes Too Far

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Well, our president has railed against "fake news" and often threatened (empty threats so far) to go after those who offend him... What choice do his followers have but to echo his complaints?

Silverback said:

This is how democracy dies.

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Democracy dies when other people want different things than you?

Tom Farebrother said:

Democracy does when other people want different things than you?

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It does when that thing they want is for democracy to die.

Silverback said:

When I was young, and during my military career, we solved our issues man to man, and didn't run off and call the cops , or, try to sue the other person, you either prevailed, or, you licked your wounds.

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Are you a christian, Silverback ? Is your philosophy what Christ teaches ?

Also ... we aren't all men ...

Don't worry, you'll still have your dog whistles, as you have demonstrated in this thread.

Silverback said:

It was to make a point...and it is the truth!

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It's the truth that Blacks are inferior to Whites?

BeholdenGlory said:

You literally have mandated homosexuality in the U.K., but tell us more how you're still, "free".

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Literally?

How often were you forced to have sex with a member of your own gender?

Silverback said:

Back in the day, people said whatever they wanted to in America, someone told you something, and you could tell them something in return.

Everyone had thick skin...that's equality, IMHO!

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That is completely false. There was never a time in America where people could say anything they wanted. In the times of the founders, and for centuries afterwards expressing unpopular opinions in the wrong way would have been met with extreme violence in basically any parts of society.

Kentonio said:

That is completely false. There was never a time in America where people could say anything they wanted. In the times of the founders, and for centuries afterwards expressing unpopular opinions in the wrong way would have been met with extreme violence in basically any parts of society.

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Especially if the person expressing the unpopular opinion wasn't a white man of the correct heritage.

Nithavela said:

Especially if the person expressing the unpopular opinion wasn't a white man of the correct heritage.

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True, but even then the constraints were MUCH stronger than they are today. This idea that speech used to be more free than it is today, is simply laughable in the face of the historical evidence.

I voted to keep speech free, but not because I actually believe that. I wholeheartedly believe that speech should be curtailed.

The problem is, I don't trust any of you on what should or should not be curtailed. Nor do I care to ever hear your ideas. They are most definitely wrong whatever they are. And I'm not even sure I trust myself and my own ideas either.

So keep speech free. It's the next best option. At least this way, even less people are getting hurt.

SimplyMe said:

There is a link to the poll in the first article the OP links to -- but to make it easy, you can find the actual poll here.

I do find the poll question a bit leading, "The First Amendment, which provides the right of Americans to have free speech, was enacted more than 200 years ago. Do you agree or disagree with this statement? 'The First Amendment goes too far in allowing hate speech in modern America and should be updated to reflect the cultural norms of today.'"

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Thank you and I agree.

Nithavela said:

It's the truth that Blacks are inferior to Whites?

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Not inferior, I never said that. But the numbers I have are the truth.

A_Thinker said:

Are you a christian, Silverback ? Is your philosophy what Christ teaches ?

Also ... we aren't all men ...

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I am, are you?

Silverback said:

I am, are you?

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Are you a christian man ?

Let's put some key things in perspective here... by the link's own admission:
80% don’t actually know what the First Amendment really protects. Those polled believed this statement is true: “The First Amendment allows anyone to say their opinion no matter what, and they are protected by law from any consequences of saying those thoughts or opinions.”

It’s actually not true. The First Amendment prevents the government from punishing you for your speech (with exceptions such as yelling “fire” in a crowded area to induce panic).

But more broadly, freedom of speech does not mean you are protected from social consequences for your speech. You may have the right to say something extreme or hateful and not get thrown in jail, but others in society have the right to shun you.


Let's look at the text for a moment shall we...
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


While it's certainly true that some liberal millennials think the part highlighted in blue "goes too far". It's also true that older conservatives also have made the compliant that measures to protect from the parts in red "go too far".

I seem to remember several complaining about 1st amendment measures to remove religion from the legislative process, public schools, etc...as well as people trying to limit or silence the press and portray them as an "enemy of the state" when they've been critical of Trump.

So...safe to assume that there are people on both sides of the fence who seem to think "1A goes too far" when it leads to outcomes they don't like?