Peter the Rock / Protestant and Catholic

BNR32FAN · Oct 24, 2019

Major1 said:
I can name all kinds of Bible people who had that happen and the 1st one to come to my mind is David. Do you know of a commandment that David DID NOT BREAK????
Do you by that known fact then believe that David is not in heaven today????

David repented if his sin didn’t he?

BNR32FAN · Oct 24, 2019

Major1 said:
The problem with what you are saying...IMO, is the assumption that everyone who calls himself a “Christian” has actually been born again.

I never said anything to that effect. I did however say that those whom Jesus specifically said were in Him were in fact in Him as stated in John 15:2. I believe it was you that said that they were not really in Christ even tho Christ said they were. And you claim that I’m the one contradicting scriptures.

BNR32FAN · Oct 24, 2019

Major1 said:
The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a state of continual, unrepentant sin in 1 John 3:6.

“No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:9-10‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Have you ever met a Christian who doesn’t sin? Brother John is saying that a child of God cannot sin. That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. When a person sins they are not acting like a child of God they are acting like a son of disobedience. Again we are servants of the one whom we serve. Either servants of righteousness resulting in life or servants of sin resulting in death. A child of God one moment and a son of disobedience the next.

Major1 · Oct 25, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
I never said anything to that effect. I did however say that those whom Jesus specifically said were in Him were in fact in Him as stated in John 15:2. I believe it was you that said that they were not really in Christ even tho Christ said they were. And you claim that I’m the one contradicting scriptures.

I do not know that you are contradicting Scriptures as much as you do not understand what they mean literally.

As for John 15, I have stated to you 3 times now that the CONTEXT of those Scriptures IS NOT about Christians losing salvation.

The CONTEXT of Jesus’ words in John 15 is the Old Testament imagery where Israel is called a vine or vineyard—although one that did not produce the expected fruit.

Jesus replaces Israel with Himself as the “true vine.” Unlike Israel, Jesus will not fail to produce fruit in all the branches that are connected to Him. The point of Jesus’ metaphor is that He will succeed where Israel failed. The disciples simply need to be connected to Him. According to John 15, it is unthinkable that any branch who is connected to Christ will fail to produce fruit. Yet, according to the illustration, some branches “in Him” will not produce fruit and be taken away.

If a true Christian cannot lose salvation, why warn about falling away?

The best explanation is that these warnings are directed toward professing Christians who appear, at least outwardly, to be connected to the Vine. They are branches in the vicinity of the Vine, but there is a disconnect.

Judas Iscariot is a good example of a false professor. The parable of the seed and the soils in Matthew 13 presents young plants that seem to start out well but then wither away. The book of Hebrews, with its many warnings, seems to be directed at those who have made an initial positive response to Jesus but are considering turning back. They are like the children of Israel who left in the exodus with Moses but then refused to enter the Promised Land. They started out on the journey but didn’t complete it.

The focus in John 15 is on "MAKE BELIEVERS" not those who are actually born again.

As I stated, you obviously have an agenda which says that people can lose their salvation.

Then you search for a Scriptures that seems, In your opinion to say that. However, as I have worked to show you, those Scriptures CONTEXTUALLY do not say that we can lose our salvation "IF" we are saved the first time which is the focus of John 15.

Major1 · Oct 25, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
David repented if his sin didn’t he?

YES...…..but that is exactly my point. He repented and went to heaven.

He did not LOSE HIS SALVATION!!!!

Psalm 51:12 ...….
"Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit."

David had not lost his salvation, but had lost all the joy of it because of his sin. This is one of the many passages of Scripture that affirm the doctrine of the assurance or security of the believer. When God saves a person he is eternally and everlastingly forgiven and saved from his sins. That means past, present and future sins.
When David sinned he stopped living by faith and trusting in the Lord. God tells us in Romans 1:17, quoting Habakkuk 2:4 “For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”

Clearly David was not living by faith when he returned to Jerusalem and to his palace instead of leading God’s people in their battles against their enemies. This was the first step in losing his the joy of his salvation and led to his giving into his lust. He was out of fellowship with the Lord.

Major1 · Oct 25, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
“No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:9-10‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Have you ever met a Christian who doesn’t sin? Brother John is saying that a child of God cannot sin. That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. When a person sins they are not acting like a child of God they are acting like a son of disobedience. Again we are servants of the one whom we serve. Either servants of righteousness resulting in life or servants of sin resulting in death. A child of God one moment and a son of disobedience the next.

And right here we see that you have done the same thing again. YOU have an agenda, something that you believe and now you go searching the Scriptures to find just one verse to validate what you WANT TO BELEIVE.

The first thing you should ask yourself is: What does the rest of the Bible teach about this issue? Christians are still sinners and do sin. They are forgiven but they still are sinners.

John himself in this same letter affirms this:...……………………..

Rom. 3:23......
"ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God".

Have you read and understood Rom. 7:15-20........
"I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it".

Read 1 John 2:1,2.....
"Jesus’ atoning death forgives Christians when they sin.
If John believed that true Christians never sin, he wouldn’t have bothered to say this!

Read 1 John 1:8,10......
"Anyone who claims not to have sin is self-deceived and a liar"
—in fact, they are not saved(?)."

Do you just ignore these Scriptures because they do not help your thinking??????
This is the exact opposite of what 3:6 seems to say!

This should be enough to tip us off that John means something else. Consider a couple other clear New Testament statements on this issue:..........

Read excerpts from Rom.7:14-24. This was written AFTER PAUL WAS SAVED and was an APOSTLE. This is Paul agonizing over the presence of ongoing, indwelling sin in his present Christian life.

Read Jas. 3:2. Even if James had said “You all stumble in many ways,” he is addressing true Christians! But he says “We all stumble in many ways”—including himself."

So then what is John talking about????????

HE IS TALKING ABOUT "KNOWN HABITUAL" SIN>

One way to discover this is to look more closely at the actual language of the passage (e.g., semantic range and tenses of original Greek). When we take a close look, it is clear that John is talking about something other than Christians simply committing sins.

He uses present tenses for “sin” in 3:6,9b. In the Greek, present tenses describe ongoing action. John is saying not that Christians cannot commit sins—but that they cannot live in sin as a settled character or lifestyle.

By adding the verb “practice” in 3:4,8,9a, John is making an even stronger statement. In fact, he is describing people who practice sin like the devil practices sin—that is, they intentionally make it a settled habit. He is saying...…...
“No one who practices sin as a lifestyle (like the devil does) is born of God.”

So John is describing certain people who claim to know God—but who live in sin as a settled lifestyle and intentionally practice in the same way Satan practices sin.

So then my friend, What I am telling you is that you are just not deeply looking into and doing the Bible study to show yourself approved, a workman!

All Christians sin! YOU and ME are forgiven sinners.

Major1 · Oct 25, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
That would depend on the manner of which he sinned. If he were caught reveling in his sin as stated in Matthew 24 then yes he will burn in the lake of fire. If he stumbled in sin and felt shame of his sin as the tax collector who cried out for forgiveness then he will be forgiven.

“"Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time? Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,' and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:45-51‬ ‭NASB‬‬

I posted scriptures that do support this idea. Did you read them? If you disagree then perhaps you would address the points I made directly and expound on the verses I provided to support my position. You never answer the questions I ask. Why is that?

I have done exactly that my friend, several times and will do so again now.

NO SIR. I do not know where you are getting your knowledge but it is incorrect.

My dear friend, the only sin that dams a mans soul to hell is the sin of UNBELIEF!

UNBELIEF is the only sin that can not be forgiven. When a person dies in their sin, and there sins are not forgiven because they did not accept and believe upon Christ, they are then dammed to hell.

Matthew 24 should not be used in trying to validate Christian doctrine as it was CONTEXTUALLY written to the Jews my friend and contains only Judaism–Jewish theology.

BNR32FAN · Oct 25, 2019

Major1 said:
I do not know that you are contradicting Scriptures as much as you do not understand what they mean literally.

As for John 15, I have stated to you 3 times now that the CONTEXT of those Scriptures IS NOT about Christians losing salvation.

The CONTEXT of Jesus’ words in John 15 is the Old Testament imagery where Israel is called a vine or vineyard—although one that did not produce the expected fruit.

Jesus replaces Israel with Himself as the “true vine.” Unlike Israel, Jesus will not fail to produce fruit in all the branches that are connected to Him. The point of Jesus’ metaphor is that He will succeed where Israel failed. The disciples simply need to be connected to Him. According to John 15, it is unthinkable that any branch who is connected to Christ will fail to produce fruit. Yet, according to the illustration, some branches “in Him” will not produce fruit and be taken away.

If a true Christian cannot lose salvation, why warn about falling away?

The best explanation is that these warnings are directed toward professing Christians who appear, at least outwardly, to be connected to the Vine. They are branches in the vicinity of the Vine, but there is a disconnect.

Judas Iscariot is a good example of a false professor. The parable of the seed and the soils in Matthew 13 presents young plants that seem to start out well but then wither away. The book of Hebrews, with its many warnings, seems to be directed at those who have made an initial positive response to Jesus but are considering turning back. They are like the children of Israel who left in the exodus with Moses but then refused to enter the Promised Land. They started out on the journey but didn’t complete it.

The focus in John 15 is on "MAKE BELIEVERS" not those who are actually born again.

As I stated, you obviously have an agenda which says that people can lose their salvation.

Then you search for a Scriptures that seems, In your opinion to say that. However, as I have worked to show you, those Scriptures CONTEXTUALLY do not say that we can lose our salvation "IF" we are saved the first time which is the focus of John 15.

There are a few implications that your explanation is missing brother.

1. Why did Jesus say to His faithful 11 apostles in verse 4 & 5...

“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:4-5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

The implications here are that even His faithful 11 were capable of failing to abide in Him otherwise this portion of the message would be completely pointless.

2. Two more implications supporting this point are found in verses 7 and 10.

“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:7‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:10‬ ‭NASB‬‬

The word “If” in both of these verses implies the possibility of failing to comply. These are conditional statements in which abiding in Christ is contingent upon. Again these are indications that it is not guaranteed that any person who has received Christ will abide and endure to the end. I’m sure you recall the many scriptural references that I provided explaining the necessity of enduring to the end. I believe I forgot to mention Colossians 1:21-23.

“And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach- if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:21-23‬ ‭NASB‬‬

BNR32FAN · Oct 25, 2019

Major1 said:
According to John 15, it is unthinkable that any branch who is connected to Christ will fail to produce fruit.

Jesus said
“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:4-5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Those who abide in Christ will bear fruit. He also said in verse 2 that The Father cuts off every branch in Me that does not bear fruit.

What are these branches being cut off from?

Jesus specifically said that branches that are connected to Him are capable of not bearing fruit. Only by abiding in Him is a person capable of bearing fruit. He even said to His 11 faithful apostles that they cannot bear fruit UNLESS they abide in Him. His faithful 11 apostles who were undoubtedly saved believers cannot bear fruit UNLESS they abide in Him. You keep missing all the strong implications to this message and even what Jesus clearly and specifically said. Again your contradicting Jesus’ words.

BNR32FAN · Oct 25, 2019

Major1 said:
And right here we see that you have done the same thing again. YOU have an agenda, something that you believe and now you go searching the Scriptures to find just one verse to validate what you WANT TO BELEIVE.

The first thing you should ask yourself is: What does the rest of the Bible teach about this issue? Christians are still sinners and do sin. They are forgiven but they still are sinners.

John himself in this same letter affirms this:...……………………..

Rom. 3:23......
"ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God".

Have you read and understood Rom. 7:15-20........
"I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it".

Read 1 John 2:1,2.....
"Jesus’ atoning death forgives Christians when they sin.
If John believed that true Christians never sin, he wouldn’t have bothered to say this!

Read 1 John 1:8,10......
"Anyone who claims not to have sin is self-deceived and a liar"
—in fact, they are not saved(?)."

Do you just ignore these Scriptures because they do not help your thinking??????
This is the exact opposite of what 3:6 seems to say!

This should be enough to tip us off that John means something else. Consider a couple other clear New Testament statements on this issue:..........

Read excerpts from Rom.7:14-24. This was written AFTER PAUL WAS SAVED and was an APOSTLE. This is Paul agonizing over the presence of ongoing, indwelling sin in his present Christian life.

Read Jas. 3:2. Even if James had said “You all stumble in many ways,” he is addressing true Christians! But he says “We all stumble in many ways”—including himself."

So then what is John talking about????????

HE IS TALKING ABOUT "KNOWN HABITUAL" SIN>

One way to discover this is to look more closely at the actual language of the passage (e.g., semantic range and tenses of original Greek). When we take a close look, it is clear that John is talking about something other than Christians simply committing sins.

He uses present tenses for “sin” in 3:6,9b. In the Greek, present tenses describe ongoing action. John is saying not that Christians cannot commit sins—but that they cannot live in sin as a settled character or lifestyle.

By adding the verb “practice” in 3:4,8,9a, John is making an even stronger statement. In fact, he is describing people who practice sin like the devil practices sin—that is, they intentionally make it a settled habit. He is saying...…...
“No one who practices sin as a lifestyle (like the devil does) is born of God.”

So John is describing certain people who claim to know God—but who live in sin as a settled lifestyle and intentionally practice in the same way Satan practices sin.

So then my friend, What I am telling you is that you are just not deeply looking into and doing the Bible study to show yourself approved, a workman!

All Christians sin! YOU and ME are forgiven sinners.

I have an agenda? I believe what I want to believe? Have you been reading my posts?

BNR32FAN said:
I was once like you and refuted Catholic theology fiercely. Careful examination of John 15:1-10 and reexamination of the scriptures that I thought supported reformed theology changed that. So I’ve been on your side of the fence. I wasn’t influenced by someone telling me what the scriptures say I did the study myself and with much study and constant prayer God revealed to me His word the way He intended it.

BNR32FAN said:
After I accepted this truth I had to go back and re-examine all the scriptures that I thought supported reformed theology much closer to see if they can be interpreted another way. The more I studied and prayed the more I learned that I had been wrong about reformed theology the whole time. So I had to go back and retract my previous statements and apologize and thank those whom I had been fiercely refuting for such a long time. It wasn’t easy to admit that I was wrong but it was more important to understand and teach the truth of God’s word over my own personal pride.

Yes I had an agenda and it was to refute the idea that John 15 contradicted eternal security. I failed to accomplish my goal because I refuse to twist what is clearly stated in the scriptures to fit my beliefs. I was then forced to go back and reevaluate all the scriptures that I thought supported reformed theology and I learned that they can be interpreted without contradiction in a way that actually doesn’t support reformed theology at all.

If I haven’t done the extensive study on the scriptures how is it that I know things like the definitions of the Greek words I’ve been providing for you to help you understand what is actually being said in John 6:37 or John 6:44? How do I already know this? It’s because like I said I went back and re-evaluated the scriptures that I thought supported reformed theology and found that in the proper context they don’t support it at all. Only by the simple English translations without understanding the actual Greek words that were used can someone fail to see this. Without seeing the Greek definition no one would come to the conclusion that the word comes or cometh in John 6:37 is ONLY used in the present and imperfect tense. Without seeing the Greek definition no one would know that the word will in John 6:44 can actually mean God’s desire. I did the study my friend and I still study to this day. So why is it that when I point these definitions out to you that you so quickly disregard them?

Albion · Oct 25, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
Yes I had an agenda and it was to refute the idea that John 15 contradicted eternal security. I failed to accomplish my goal because I refuse to twist what is clearly stated in the scriptures to fit my beliefs.

You failed in your goal because John 15 does not refute Eternal Security. I hope this settles the matter.

BNR32FAN · Oct 25, 2019

Albion said:
You failed in your goal because John 15 does not refute Eternal Security. I hope this settles the matter.

I don’t see you answering any of the questions I’ve been asking. You provided about as much evidence to support your claim as simply saying “nuh uh”.

Major1 · Oct 25, 2019

Albion said:
You failed in your goal because John 15 does not refute Eternal Security. I hope this settles the matter.

Lord I hope so......but history tells me that it will not be that way.

Major1 · Oct 25, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
I have an agenda? I believe what I want to believe? Have you been reading my posts?

Yes I had an agenda and it was to refute the idea that John 15 contradicted eternal security. I failed to accomplish my goal because I refuse to twist what is clearly stated in the scriptures to fit my beliefs. I was then forced to go back and reevaluate all the scriptures that I thought supported reformed theology and I learned that they can be interpreted without contradiction in a way that actually doesn’t support reformed theology at all.

If I haven’t done the extensive study on the scriptures how is it that I know things like the definitions of the Greek words I’ve been providing for you to help you understand what is actually being said in John 6:37 or John 6:44? How do I already know this? It’s because like I said I went back and re-evaluated the scriptures that I thought supported reformed theology and found that in the proper context they don’t support it at all. Only by the simple English translations without understanding the actual Greek words that were used can someone fail to see this. Without seeing the Greek definition no one would come to the conclusion that the word comes or cometh in John 6:37 is ONLY used in the present and imperfect tense. Without seeing the Greek definition no one would know that the word will in John 6:44 can actually mean God’s desire. I did the study my friend and I still study to this day. So why is it that when I point these definitions out to you that you so quickly disregard them?

YES. YOU have an agenda.

You are promoting that people can lose their salvation. That is NOT Bible teaching thus it becomes something YOU desire not what the Word says. That makes it an agenda.

Again...…….Matthew 15 has NOTHING to do whatsoever with OSAS but again you keep posing it and speaking fromit.

You can keep do that until Jesus comes and it is still not going to make it so.

Try moving on to something else.

Major1 · Oct 25, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
Jesus said
“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:4-5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Those who abide in Christ will bear fruit. He also said in verse 2 that The Father cuts off every branch in Me that does not bear fruit.

What are these branches being cut off from?

Jesus specifically said that branches that are connected to Him are capable of not bearing fruit. Only by abiding in Him is a person capable of bearing fruit. He even said to His 11 faithful apostles that they cannot bear fruit UNLESS they abide in Him. His faithful 11 apostles who were undoubtedly saved believers cannot bear fruit UNLESS they abide in Him. You keep missing all the strong implications to this message and even what Jesus clearly and specifically said. Again your contradicting Jesus’ words.

Dadgummed! Matthew 15 is not about losing salvation!!!!!!!!!

Do the work, do the study ………..Please!

You see what you are doing?????

You are making something out of nothing. You have fixated on Matthew 15 for some reason and it is a wrong reason.

Here is a good web site for you to read...….
Know Your Bible - The Gospel of Matthew Explained

Here is another one...……..
Are the Gospels Christian? - doctrine.org

Concord1968 · Oct 25, 2019

Major1 said:
Dadgummed! Matthew 15 is not about losing salvation!!!!!!!!!

Do the work, do the study ………..Please!

You see what you are doing?????

You are making something out of nothing. You have fixated on Matthew 15 for some reason and it is a wrong reason.

Here is a good web site for you to read...….
Know Your Bible - The Gospel of Matthew Explained

Here is another one...……..
Are the Gospels Christian? - doctrine.org

Just an aside here, but have you noticed that the objections to Eternal Security are typically the same ones used to object to salvation by faith alone (Sola Fide) in other threads?

BNR32FAN · Oct 25, 2019

Major1 said:
YES...…..but that is exactly my point. He repented and went to heaven.

He did not LOSE HIS SALVATION!!!!

Psalm 51:12 ...….
"Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit."

David had not lost his salvation, but had lost all the joy of it because of his sin. This is one of the many passages of Scripture that affirm the doctrine of the assurance or security of the believer. When God saves a person he is eternally and everlastingly forgiven and saved from his sins. That means past, present and future sins.
When David sinned he stopped living by faith and trusting in the Lord. God tells us in Romans 1:17, quoting Habakkuk 2:4 “For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”

Clearly David was not living by faith when he returned to Jerusalem and to his palace instead of leading God’s people in their battles against their enemies. This was the first step in losing his the joy of his salvation and led to his giving into his lust. He was out of fellowship with the Lord.

I already said that if a person sins and repents of their sin they will be forgiven. I never said a person cannot regain their salvation.

BNR32FAN · Oct 25, 2019

Albion said:
You failed in your goal because John 15 does not refute Eternal Security. I hope this settles the matter.

That’s exactly what I set out to prove and without contradicting the scriptures it is impossible to interpret John 15 without refuting eternal security.

Albion · Oct 25, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
I already said that if a person sins and repents of their sin they will be forgiven. I never said a person cannot regain their salvation.

You just described how they can lose it, however, if not necessarily forever.

Albion · Oct 25, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
That’s exactly what I set out to prove and without contradicting the scriptures it is impossible to interpret John 15 without refuting eternal security.

Actually John 15 has nothing to do with it. You are simply interpreting it as you want it to be.

Peter the Rock / Protestant and Catholic

Is Peter The Rock of the Church?

Yes

No

He’s a Way of life

He’s a Way of life

He’s a Way of life

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

He’s a Way of life

He’s a Way of life

He’s a Way of life

Facilitator

He’s a Way of life

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

LCMS Lutheran

He’s a Way of life

He’s a Way of life

Facilitator

Facilitator

Similar threads