THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

Contenders Edge · Oct 23, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Tell that to the local Fire Marshall when he shows up at your church...

.

Does the Fire Marshall measure the length, width and height of the congregants?

BABerean2 · Oct 24, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
Does the Fire Marshall measure the length, width and height of the congregants?

He asks how many members are in attendance, and measures the size of the building.

.

Contenders Edge · Oct 24, 2019

BABerean2 said:
He asks how many members are in attendance, and measures the size of the building.

.

I did not ask if he counts how many members are in attendance, I asked you think people are fixtures and pieces of a building that is measured.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 24, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
I did not ask if he counts how many members are in attendance, I asked you think people are fixtures and pieces of a building that is measured.

Revelation 21 and Hebrews 12 are interesting.....

Revelation 21:9And there came unto me one of the seven messengers, who have the seven vials that are full of the seven last plagues/blows, and he spake with me, saying, ‘Come, I will shew thee the bride of the Lamb — the wife,’
10and he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high[Mt Zion?], and did shew to me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God..................
15And he who is speaking with me had a golden reed, that he may measure the city, and its gates, and its wall; 16and the city lieth square, and the length of it is as great as the breadth; and he did measure the city with the reed — furlongs twelve thousand; the length, and the breadth, and the height, of it are equal; 17and he measured its wall, an hundred forty-four cubits, the measure of a man, that is, of the messenger;
=================================
Revelation 14:1 And I look, and behold! a Lambkin having stood upon the mount Zion, and with Him an hundred forty-four thousand,

Hebrews 12:
22 But ye have come toward to Zion, to a Mountain and City of God, a living Jerusalem, heavenly, to myriads of messengers,
23 to an all-convocation, and assembly of firstborns having been written in heavens, and to judger, to God of all, and to spirits of just-ones having been perfected.
24 And of a Covenant, young, to a mediator, JESUS and to a blood of sprinkling better speaking beside the Abel.

Contenders Edge · Oct 24, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Revelation 21 and Hebrews 12 are interesting.....

Revelation 21:9And there came unto me one of the seven messengers, who have the seven vials that are full of the seven last plagues/blows, and he spake with me, saying, ‘Come, I will shew thee the bride of the Lamb — the wife,’
10and he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high[Mt Zion?], and did shew to me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God..................
15And he who is speaking with me had a golden reed, that he may measure the city, and its gates, and its wall; 16and the city lieth square, and the length of it is as great as the breadth; and he did measure the city with the reed — furlongs twelve thousand; the length, and the breadth, and the height, of it are equal; 17and he measured its wall, an hundred forty-four cubits, the measure of a man, that is, of the messenger;
=================================
Revelation 14:1 And I look, and behold! a Lambkin having stood upon the mount Zion, and with Him an hundred forty-four thousand,

Hebrews 12:
22 But ye have come toward to Zion, to a Mountain and City of God, a living Jerusalem, heavenly, to myriads of messengers,
23 to an all-convocation, and assembly of firstborns having been written in heavens, and to judger, to God of all, and to spirits of just-ones having been perfected.
24 And of a Covenant, young, to a mediator, JESUS and to a blood of sprinkling better speaking beside the Abel.

What John saw coming out of Heaven is going to be superior and immensely larger than even the Temple of Ezekiel's vision and if the mountain to which John was taken is Mt. Zion which is located in Jerusalem, then this seems to indicate that Jerusalem and Mt. Zion may very well be made a part of the New Jerusalem that is to come since Jerusalem has been promised perpetual existence.

But presently, Mt. Zion is not a high mountain in comparison to other mountains which would indicate that in order for Mt. Zion to be a high mountain, unspecified changes in the earth's topography would have had to have taken place by that time.

The entire range of Ezekiel's Temple is but a pinhead in comparison to the entire size of the New Jerusalem that is to come which is one of a number of reasons why Ezekiel's Temple cannot be symbolic but a literal building that is to come in an era before the arrival of the New Jerusalem.

It is also the one thing that is missing from the New Jerusalem since there will be no building that will serve as a Temple since Christ and the Father will be that Temple.

nolidad · Oct 24, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
nolidad............they have already come back and continue to come back, sans a Temple and Sanctuary! Please take off your zionist dispensationalist futurist blinders...........

Is land restoration a part of the new covenant?

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

Rapture, Premillennialism & Dispensationalism Refuted!

See: "Replacement theology" proven from the Bible!

See: The Origin of Rapture Doctrine in 1830 AD (Inventor: John Darby)

See: 50 ways Pre-millennialism contradicts the Bible

Israel's land promise fulfilled in 1350 BC

1. Israel got all the land they were promised!
2. Israel's 1948 nationhood is not the beginning of the fulfillment of the land promise made to Abraham!
3. Abraham's land promise fulfilled by Joshua, Solomon!
4. Christ will never set foot on earth again!
5. Read more

1948 Israeli statehood is irrelevant

1. Fleshly Israel is lost without Christ.
2. Restoring temple sacrifices in Jerusalem is a denial of the blood of Christ.
3. Israeli statehood 1948 AD was not prophesied and is not a sign of a soon to happen second coming.
4. Rapture/Restoration texts refuted
5. Read more
==============================
Matthew 24 fulfilled in 70 AD when the Temple was destroyed

The Titus Arch in Rome that celebrates the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD by Titus as Matthew 24 prophesied.

The Destruction of Jerusalem is prophecies in four parallel passages

Modern headline news never fulfills Matthew 24

The disciples asked when the Temple would be destroyed, not the second coming
Prophetic language of Matthew is used throughout the Old Testament

The "abomination desolation" is the Roman Armies surrounding Jerusalem in 70 AD

The signs of war, earthquakes, famines, warned Christians to flee Jerusalem in 70 AD

Scientific proof earthquakes have not increased in the last 100 years!

The end of the Temple in 70 AD came after the Gospel had been preached to whole world!

Flee to escape Jerusalem not some "Rapture"

Tribulation is "one generation" from 30 AD: exactly 70 AD

Well now seeing as you post that Jesus will never set foot physically again on teh planet causes me to worry about your salvation !

1 John 4:2
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Now just looking at that in English means little.

BUT BUT BUT

1 John 4:3 "come" is the 2nd perfect active participle and that means come is translated as "coming"

Just as Jesus promised! Jesus inspired that whoever denies Jesus is coming in the flesh is not of God!

Acts 1:
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

REv. 19:

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing.

Matt. 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

These are but a few2 of the dozens of verses that promise Jesus is coming back to earth in the flesh!

It appears you seem to have much bigger problems than just heretical preterism.

nolidad · Oct 24, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
nolidad..........
I, and most other Christians, could also quote a "wall of verses" to support our position/views of the Scriptures.......

Sorry little lamb- but you cannot quote a "wall of verses". what you can quote is a "wall of people rtetranslating the Scriptures" to make them say something the Scriptures don't!.

See I recognize that part of the olivet discourse was fulfilled by 70AD, but other parts were not !

Saying that the unholy trinity is Nero, Vespasian and Titus and the miraculous fire from heaven is fire arrows lacks all credulity! It takes a totqal retranslating Scripture to get it to say that!

Besides you have a much bigger problem.

John wrote that those who say Jesus is not coming in the flesh are not fo God!

nolidad · Oct 24, 2019

jgr said:
Therefore, faith and obedience in and to the Son of God don't matter.

Any and all who are "coming back to their native land" are automatically chosen of God.

Camels don't get any more huge than that.

What about people who've decided not to return to their native land because they heard a dispensationalist (maybe even yourself) say that 2/3 of them will be annihilated?

Do they still qualify as chosen?

1 John 2
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

See you are so used to allegorizing Scripture- you cannot understand when someone simply speaks plainly!

I never and AFAIK no one has ever declared that God simply recording the fact that Israel will be drawn back to their land =salvation. That is presumptiousness on your part and that is sin.

Since pentecost any one who is to be saved must trust in Jesus' death and physical resurrection as the full payment for their sin +nothing! So if you say that again on this thread- then you are guilty of open lying!

What aboutthem? I haven't a clue- God didn't write down all the tiniest details so I won't speculate- I gladly leave that to eh allegorists and preterists. All I know is what Scripture says- that once teh pleroma or full number of Gentiles comes in- all Israel will be saved according to teh New Covenant God made with the House of Israel and Judah!

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 24, 2019

nolidad said:
Well now seeing as you post that Jesus will never set foot physically again on teh planet causes me to worry about your salvation !

I view 70ad Jerusalem in Revelation.
How does that affect my salvation? :scratch:

Worry about your own salvation................

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

Matthew 24:15
Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation/ἐρημώσεως<2050>.......
Mark 13:14
Whenever yet ye may be seeing see the abomination<946> of the desolation/ἐρημώσεως<2050>
Luke 21:20
Whenever yet may be seeing Jerusalem surrounded by war-troops,
then be knowing that come nigh the desolating/ἐρήμωσις<2050> of Her

Luke 19:
43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee,
and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee
and shall be encompassing Thee,
and pressing Thee from-every-side.
44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee,
and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".

Revelation 18:19
and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried<2896>, lamenting<2799>, weeping and mourning<3996>, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships<4143> in the sea, out of Her preciousness<5094>,
for to one hour was She was desolated<2049>.
=========================
JOSEPHUS, OLIVET DISCOURSE AND BOOK OF REVELATION

Josephus and Luke 21:11 "fearful signs in heaven/sky" 1st century pre 70AD

LittleLambofJesus said:
Has anyone read of the supernatural happenings that were occurring around Jerusalem/Judea prior to the Roman siege of 70AD?
Do others view these events as factual, fiction, hallucinations etc...............

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:7-8 , nation, kingdom against nation, kingdom; quaking, famines

Matthew 24:
7 “For shall be being roused/raised<1453> nation against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.And there will be famines, pestilences, and quakings in various places.
Mark 13:
8 For shall being roused/raised<1453> nation against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
And shall be being quakings various places, and there shall be being famines and disturbances<5016>........
Luke 21:
10 Then He said to them, “shall be being roused/riaised<1453> Nation against nation, and kingdom against kingdom,
11 Great quakings and famines and pestilences<3061> in various places.
They shall be being fearful-things<5400> as<5037>
also shall be being great signs from heaven.”
=============================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

PREFACE
History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ; the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION ; together with the impressive and terrific grandeur of the events themselves -- are circumstances which must always insure to the subject of the following pages more than ordinary degrees of interest and importance. Many eminent and learned men have employed their pens in the illustration of it ; but the fruits of their labours are, for the most part, contained in large and expensive works, out of the reach of numbers, to whom the discussion might prove equally interesting and improving. For the use and gratification of such, the present Treatise, in a more accessible and familiar form, is diffidently offered to the public. In order that it might be better adapted for the general reader, critical inquiries and tedious details are equally avoided ; but it has been the care of the writer not to omit any important fact or argument that, in his opinion, tended to elucidate the subject. Countenanced by the example of many respectable names, he has ventured to introduce the extraordinary prodigies, which, according to Josephus, preceded the destruction of the Holy City. He has also added a few sentences in their defense, but he does not intend thereby to express his unqualified admission of their genuineness.

Upon the execution of the tract, generally, the public will determine. Usefulness is the writer's main object ; and if a perusal of it shall contribute, under the DIVINE BLESSING, to confirm the wavering faith of only one Christian, or to shake the vain confidence of a single Unbeliever, his labour will be abundantly rewarded.
========================================

Our Lord proceeded, "And fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven." [6]- Josephus has collected the chief of these portents together, and introduces his account by a reflection on the strangeness of that infatuation, which could induce his countrymen to give credit to impostors, and unfounded reports, whilst they disregarded the divine admonitions, confirmed, as he asserts they Were, by the following extraordinary signs :

1. "A meteor, resembling a sword, [7] hung over Jerusalem during one whole year." This could not be a comet, for it was stationary, and was visible for twelve successive months. A sword too, though a fit emblem for destruction, but ill represents a comet.

2. "On the eighth of the month Zanthicus, (before the feast of unleavened bread) at the ninth hour of the night, there shone round about the altar, and the circumjacent buildings of the temple, a light equal to the brightness of the day, which continued for the space of half an hour." This could not be the effect of lightning, nor of a vivid aurora borealis, for it was confined to a particular spoil and the light shone unintermittedly thirty minutes.

3. "As the High Priest were leading a heifer to the altar to be sacrificed, she brought forth a lamb, in the midst of the temple." Such is the strange account given by the historian. Some may regard it as a "Grecian fable," while others may think that they discern in this prodigy a miraculous rebuke of Jewish infidelity and impiety, for rejecting the ANTITYPICAL Lamb, who had offered Up Himself as an atonement, "once for all," and who, by thus completely fulfilling their design, had virtually abrogated the Levitical sacrifices.

However this may be, the circumstances of the prodigy are remarkable. It did not occur in an obscure part of the city, but in the temple ; not at an ordinary time, but at the passover, the season of our LORD'S crucifixion in the presence, not of the vulgar merely, but of the High Priests and their attendants, and when they were leading the sacrifice to the altar.

4. "' About the sixth hour of the night, the eastern gate of the temple was seen to open without human assistance." When the guards informed the Curator of this event, he sent men to assist them in shutting it, who with great difficulty succeeded. -- This gate, as hath been observed already, 'Was of solid brass, and required twenty men to close it every evening. It could not have been opened by a "strong gust of wind," or a slight earthquake;" for Josephus says, it was secured by iron bolts And bars, which were let down into a large threshold; consisting of one entire stone." [8]

5. "Soon after the feast of the Passover, in various parts of the country, before the Setting of the sun, chariots and armed men were seen in the air, passing round about Jerusalem." Neither could this portentous spectacle be occasioned by the aurora borealis, for it occurred before the setting of the sun ; or merely the fancy of a few villagers, gazing at the heavens, for it was seen in various parts of the country.

6. "At the subsequent feast of Pentecost, while the priests were going, by night, into the inner, temple to perform their customary ministrations, they first felt, as they said, a shaking, accompanied by an indistinct murmuring, and afterwards voices as of a multitude, saying, in a distinct and earnest manner, "LET US DEPART HENCE." This gradation will remind the reader of that awful transaction, which the feast of Pentecost *as principally instituted to commemorate.

First, a shaking was heard ; this would naturally induce the priests to listen : an unintelligible murmur succeeds; this would more powerfully arrest their attention, and while it was thus awakened arid fixed, they heard, says Josephus, the voices as of a multitude, distinctly pronouncing the words "LET US DEPART HENCE." -- And accordingly, before the period for celebrating this feast returned, the Jewish war had commenced, and in the space of three years afterwards, Jerusalem was surrounded by the Roman army, the temple converted into a citadel, and its sacred courts streaming with the blood of human victims.

7. As the last and most fearful omen, Josephus relates that one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a rustic of the lower class, during the Feast of Tabernacles, suddenly exclaimed in the temple,"A voice from the east a voice from the west -- a voice from the four winds- a voice against Jerusalem and the temple -- a voice against bridegrooms and brides -- a voice against the whole people !"

These words he incessantly proclaimed aloud both day and night, through all the streets of Jerusalem, for seven years and five months together, commencing at a time (A. D. 62) when the city was in a state of peace, and overflowing with prosperity, and terminating amidst the horrors of the siege.

This disturber, having excited the attention of the magistracy, was brought before Albinus the Roman governor, who commanded that he should be scourged. But the severest stripes drew from him neither tears nor supplications. As he never thanked those who relieved, so neither did he complain of the injustice of those who struck him. And no other answer could the governor obtain to his interrogatories, but his usual denunciation of "Woe, woe to Jerusalem !" which he still continued to proclaim through the city, but especially during the festivals, when his manner became more earnest, and the tone of his voice louder.

At length, on the commencement of the siege, he ascended the walls, and, in a more powerful voice than ever, exclaimed, "Woe, woe to this city, this temple, and this people !" And then, with a presentment of his own death, added," Woe, woe to myself "' he had scarcely uttered these words when a stone from one of the Roman engines killed him on the spot.

jgr · Oct 24, 2019

nolidad said:
I never and AFAIK no one has ever declared that God simply recording the fact that Israel will be drawn back to their land =salvation. That is presumptiousness on your part and that is sin.

1. What criteria will God use to select those to be drawn back?
2. What happens to those refusing to be drawn back because those such as yourself tell them that there is a 2/3 probability that they'll be slaughtered?
3. Will the 2/3 who are slaughtered be saved before, or after, their demise?

There is no greater sin of presumption than to presume that God's Chosen People are identified by anything other than faith and obedience in and to His Son.

nolidad said:
Since pentecost any one who is to be saved must trust in Jesus' death and physical resurrection as the full payment for their sin +nothing! So if you say that again on this thread- then you are guilty of open lying!

Could hardly have said it better myself.
Faith + obedience + nothing else.
Only spiritual DNA.
Physical DNA irrelevant.

Anyone else claiming anything else is lying.

I hope you're not guilty.

nolidad said:
What aboutthem? I haven't a clue- God didn't write down all the tiniest details so I won't speculate- I gladly leave that to eh allegorists and preterists. All I know is what Scripture says- that once teh pleroma or full number of Gentiles comes in- all Israel will be saved according to teh New Covenant God made with the House of Israel and Judah!

Yes, all Israel who have trusted Christ for salvation, and lived in obedience to Him.
Only spiritual DNA.
Physical DNA irrelevant.

As with all of humankind.

nolidad · Oct 25, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
I view 70ad Jerusalem in Revelation.
How does that affect my salvation?
Worry about your own salvation................

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

Matthew 24:15
Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation/ἐρημώσεως<2050>.......
Mark 13:14
Whenever yet ye may be seeing see the abomination<946> of the desolation/ἐρημώσεως<2050>
Luke 21:20
Whenever yet may be seeing Jerusalem surrounded by war-troops,
then be knowing that come nigh the desolating/ἐρήμωσις<2050> of Her

Luke 19:
43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee,
and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee
and shall be encompassing Thee,
and pressing Thee from-every-side.
44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee,
and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".

Revelation 18:19
and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried<2896>, lamenting<2799>, weeping and mourning<3996>, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships<4143> in the sea, out of Her preciousness<5094>,
for to one hour was She was desolated<2049>.
=========================
JOSEPHUS, OLIVET DISCOURSE AND BOOK OF REVELATION

Josephus and Luke 21:11 "fearful signs in heaven/sky" 1st century pre 70AD

Well Part of the Olivet discourse is fulfilled in the 66-70 AD siege and destruction of jerusalem. The rest has not.

The one who is the abomination of desolation has not stood in the holy of holies yet. Besides you believe Josephus so you must think Antiochus Epiphenes was the abomination and Jesus was mistaken when He said "when you see" instead of saying "when they saw"

Also Jerusalem was not big enough to cause the merchants of even just the Roman Empire to lament her destruction!

Once again when you deny the physical return of Jesus to the earth you run up against the Apostle John who said those that believe that are not of God!

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 25, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
nolidad............they have already come back and continue to come back, sans a Temple and Sanctuary! Please take off your zionist dispensationalist futurist blinders.........

nolidad said: ↑
Well now seeing as you post that Jesus will never set foot physically again on teh planet causes me to worry about your salvation !

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
I view 70ad Jerusalem in Revelation.
How does that affect my salvation?
Worry about your own salvation................

nolidad said:
Well Part of the Olivet discourse is fulfilled in the 66-70 AD siege and destruction of jerusalem. The rest has not.

Once again when you deny the physical return of Jesus to the earth you run up against the Apostle John who said those that believe that are not of God!

A lot of Partial Preterists and Amills also deny that.....
Are they in danger of losing their salvation because of it?

Will Jesus physically return to Earth?

Tyndale said:
Will his feet actually touch the ground in the second coming?

1 Thess 1:17 states we will be caught up to meet him in the air, Rev 21 seems to support this idea by describing the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven and the bride of Christ (church) is within, and this is after the old heaven and earth had passed away, also backed up in Matt 24:35.

However there are some who suggest Jesus will physically return to Earth. They support this by quoting Zechariah 14:4 which says, "in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives," and Revelation 11:15 which says, 'The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!'"

Does Zechariah 14 and Rev 11 describe the second coming?

Will Jesus physically return to Earth in the second coming?

No, he'll meet us in the air
18 vote(s)
20.5%
Yes, he will physically reign on Earth
57 vote(s)
64.8%
*
Don't know
13 vote(s)
14.8%

nolidad · Oct 25, 2019

jgr said:
1. What criteria will God use to select those to be drawn back?
2. What happens to those refusing to be drawn back because those such as yourself tell them that there is a 2/3 probability that they'll be slaughtered?
3. Will the 2/3 who are slaughtered be saved before, or after, their demise?

There is no greater sin of presumption than to presume that God's Chosen People are identified by anything other than faith and obedience in and to His Son.

Once again God did not reveal what His Criteria will be so this is an irrelavancy!

And Gods chosen people are the ones He covenanted with. Even Paul said that!
Romans 11:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Unless of course you believe Paul meant something other than He wrote as well as Jeremish!

Jeremiah 31:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

jgr said:
Could hardly have said it better myself.
Faith + obedience + nothing else.
Only spiritual DNA.
Physical DNA irrelevant.

Anyone else claiming anything else is lying.

I hope you're not guilty.

I agree as for what is required to be saved- that is why the entire surviving Jews on the last three days all receive Jesus as Messiah! As god promised !

jgr said:
Yes, all Israel who have trusted Christ for salvation, and lived in obedience to Him.

Well you could hardly say it better above and now here you have added to what is needed for salvation---works! So I guess you are a self accused liar then according to what you just told me above??

nolidad · Oct 25, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
A lot of Partial Preterists and Amills also deny that.....
Are they in danger of losing their salvation because of it?

Well according to Gods Word they are not of God!

1 John 4:2
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Both of these verses are in the 2nd Perfect Active participle

Which means this- A work that began in the past and continues into the future (2nd perfect) done by the person mentioned (active) and come is a participle and considered a verbal noun and is rendered in English with an "ing".

So both verses should have come- rendered as coming. To deny it means one is not of God! That is the bible!

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 25, 2019

nolidad said: ↑
Well now seeing as you post that Jesus will never set foot physically again on teh planet causes me to worry about your salvation !

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
I view 70ad Jerusalem in Revelation.
How does that affect my salvation?
Worry about your own salvation................

nolidad said: ↑
Well Part of the Olivet discourse is fulfilled in the 66-70 AD siege and destruction of jerusalem. The rest has not.

Once again when you deny the physical return of Jesus to the earth you run up against the Apostle John who said those that believe that are not of God!

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
A lot of Partial Preterists and Amills also deny that.....
Are they in danger of losing their salvation because of it?

nolidad said:
Well according to Gods Word they are not of God!

This is getting off topic from the OP.
Start a thread on it or find one already created to discuss the physical bodily reign of Christ reigning for a 1000yrs.......

A Corporeal Return? Says Who?

Residential Bob said:
Jesus tells Caiaphas that he is coming in power in the clouds of heaven (Mt 26:64). Yes, clouds of heaven; not a stratus cloud, a cumulus cloud, or a fog hovering over a lake. Clouds of heaven.

Jesus also says that he will come “as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west.” (Mt 24:27) He comes as light from all directions. Also as the sound of the trumpet of God. (1 Thes 4:16). To repeat, a trumpet of God, not marching band brass.

The Bible does not describe a flesh-and-blood return of Christ.

When we consider all the ways that the Parousia is prophesied, we see that he comes everywhere. Lightning lights up the sky all around. The nature of his coming may elude us until we grasp it in the context of scripture. The way that Jesus comes—on clouds of heaven, as a call from God, as lightning—cannot be manifested in flesh and blood. A man cannot come in these ways. Christ’s advent is rather a return in power and spirit that the Scriptures corroborate. How much more glorious and momentous an advent that would be than to come in the body of a man.

Think about that for a moment, about limitations imposed on flesh and blood, even Christ’s. When in the flesh, Jesus performed miracles and amazed the crowds around him, and even some who heard by word of mouth. His miracles impacted locally. If he were to be a man again, what would change? What would his impact be globally and for all time? Would he really effect a worldwide utopia? Of course not. Even a return in power and spirit would not effect such an “idyllic” world. John the Divine says the wicked still live on the earth despite the presence of the kingdom. God’s kingdom does not vanquish evil from the world. It confronts evil and challenges it, but wickedness still persists outside the gates.

So where does the idea of a corporeal return come from? The church fathers? Dispensationalists? Who knows?

Certainly not from the Scriptures.

Will Jesus physically return to Earth?

Zechariah 14:4 "HIS FEET WILL STAND ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES"

Scriptural facts about Jesus Millennial reign here on the earth

Quasar92 said:
I believe Jesus is returning to reign over the earth because the New Testament prophets say so.

Jesus is returning to reign on earth

jgr · Oct 25, 2019

nolidad said:
Once again God did not reveal what His Criteria will be so this is an irrelavancy!

He certainly did. Throughout the entirety of Scripture I see His criteria of faith and obedience.

Are you declaring that there are criteria other than those?

What and where in Scripture are they?

nolidad said:
And Gods chosen people are the ones He covenanted with. Even Paul said that!

Absolutely true.

Did He covenant with the faithful and obedient?

Or with the unfaithful and disobedient?

nolidad said:
I agree as for what is required to be saved- that is why the entire surviving Jews on the last three days all receive Jesus as Messiah! As god promised !

You've admitted that you don't know the criteria that God uses to determine Jews, so what Jews are you referring to?

nolidad said:
Well you could hardly say it better above and now here you have added to what is needed for salvation---works! So I guess you are a self accused liar then according to what you just told me above??

Hebrews 11:8
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Poor Abraham. He didn't know that his obedience was only "works".

Why didn't God inform him of that?

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 9, 2019

jgr said: ↑
1. What criteria will God use to select those to be drawn back?
2. What happens to those refusing to be drawn back because those such as yourself tell them that there is a 2/3 probability that they'll be slaughtered?
3. Will the 2/3 who are slaughtered be saved before, or after, their demise?

There is no greater sin of presumption than to presume that God's Chosen People are identified by anything other than faith and obedience in and to His Son.

nolidad said:
Once again God did not reveal what His Criteria will be so this is an irrelavancy!

And Gods chosen people are the ones He covenanted with. Even Paul said that!
Romans 11:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Unless of course you believe Paul meant something other than He wrote as well as Jeremish!

Jeremiah 31:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

I agree as for what is required to be saved- that is why the entire surviving Jews on the last three days all receive Jesus as Messiah! As god promised !

Well you could hardly say it better above and now here you have added to what is needed for salvation---works! So I guess you are a self accused liar then according to what you just told me above??

jgr said:
He certainly did. Throughout the entirety of Scripture I see His criteria of faith and obedience.

Are you declaring that there are criteria other than those?

What and where in Scripture are they?

Absolutely true.

Did He covenant with the faithful and obedient?

Or with the unfaithful and disobedient?

You've admitted that you don't know the criteria that God uses to determine Jews, so what Jews are you referring to?

Hebrews 11:8
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Poor Abraham. He didn't know that his obedience was only "works".

Why didn't God inform him of that?

Bump for more discussion...............

nolidad · Nov 9, 2019

jgr said:
Absolutely true.

Did He covenant with the faithful and obedient?

Or with the unfaithful and disobedient?

He covenanted with the nation-though for now just a remnant gets saved. At one point in the future- the entire nation of Israel on earth will be saved because that is His promise! He also will give Israel a 1,000 year kingdom as He promised and the Apostles will judge the 12 tribes as He promised!

As a matter of fact- the basis of Jesus return to earth is the nation of Israel asking Him to come by crying- "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord"

Matthew 23:38-39 King James Version (KJV)
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

jgr · Nov 9, 2019

nolidad said:
He covenanted with the nation

Produce Scripture declaring that God covenants with the unfaithful and disobedient.

Reconcile it with Hebrews 10:28.

BABerean2 · Nov 9, 2019

nolidad said:
At one point in the future- the entire nation of Israel on earth will be saved because that is His promise!

Your claim above is not found in the Bible.

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Mat_21:9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.

.

THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

DO YOU AGREE WITH THE OP POST?

Yes

No

I don't know what REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY is

I don't know what SUPERSESSIONISM IS

Does it matter?

Other

I don't know

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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