Battle over forms of Preterism in the Church of Christ:

BABerean2

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There is a battle raging between those promoting different forms of Preterism in the Church of Christ, first established by Campbell.

2Ti 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,
2Ti 2:18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.





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LittleLambofJesus

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You have been told before that full preterism cannot be discussed on this board
Go to this other board...................
Do search for "full preterism"

Controversial Christian Theology
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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There is a battle raging between those promoting different forms of Preterism in the Church of Christ, first established by Campbell.
2Ti 2:18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.
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There a discussion thread on that for those interested:

2 Timothy 2:18 "SOME SAYING RESURRECTION ALREADY BECAME"
Jan 13, 2019

Why would Paul have to say this to his followers concerning some saying the resurrection has already happened?
[which doesn't appear to occur until Revelation 20:5 "the first resurrection"?]

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

2 Timothy 2:18
who about the truth swerve<795>, saying the resurrection/ἀνάστασιν<386> already to have become/γεγονέναι<1096>
and they are subverting<396> the of-some<5100> faith.

become/γεγονέναι<1096>
Speech: Verb Parsing: Perfect Infinitive Active

18
οἵτινες περὶ τὴν ἀλήθειαν ἠστόχησαν, λέγοντες ἀνάστασιν ἤδη γεγονέναι,
καὶ ἀνατρέπουσιν τήν τινων πίστιν.
18
oitineV peri thn alhqeian hstochsan legonteV thn anastasin hdh gegonenai
kai anatrepousin thn tinwn pistin

Revelation 20 shows the Resurrection.

Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead no they live until should be being finished<5055> the thousand years.
This the resurrection/ἀνάστασις <386>, the first.

20:5
οἱ λοιποὶ τῶν νεκρῶν οὐκ ἔζησαν ἄχρι τελεσθῇ1 τὰ χίλια2 ἔτη.
αὕτη ἡ ἀνάστασις ἡ πρώτη.

Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
oi de loipoi twn nekrwn ouk anezhsan ews telesqh ta cilia eth auth h anastasiV h prwth
Byzantine Majority
kai oi loipoi twn nekrwn ouk ezhsan acri telesqh ta cilia eth auth h anastasiV h prwth.


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BABerean2

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LittleLambofJesus

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LittleLambofJesus

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Are you opposed to the preacher showing that Partial-Preterism is the one which is scriptural?
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I can quote a lot of Preterist/Amill commentators that view 70AD Jerusalem is in Revelation 18 [which I have viewed since 2003] and still remain within orthodoxy.....

JOSEPHUS, OLIVET DISCOURSE AND BOOK OF REVELATION
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

Was Flavius Josephus familiar with the Apocalypse of John?

John's Revelation - “And there were noises and thundering and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.” (16:18)

Josephus - “for there broke out a prodigious storm in the night, with the utmost violence, and very strong winds, with the largest showers of rain, with continued lightnings, terrible thunderings, and amazing concussions and bellowings of the earth, that was in an earthquake. These things were a manifest indication that some destruction was coming upon men, when the system of the world was put into this disorder; and any one would guess that these wonders foreshowed some grand calamities that were coming” (“Wars of the Jews” 4:4:5) John's
==========================
Josephus Parallels? Revelation 16:19 and Wars of the Jews 5:1:1


Revelation - "Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.” (16:19)

Josephus - “it so happened that the sedition at Jerusalem was revived, and parted into three factions, and that one faction fought against the other; which partition in such evil cases may be said to be a good thing, and the effect of divine justice.” (5:1:1)
==============================
Josephus Parallels? Revelation 16:21 and Wars of the Jews 5:6:3

John's Revelation - “And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent.” (16:21)

Josephus - “Now the stones that were cast were of the weight of a talent, and were carried two furlongs and further. The blow they gave was no way to be sustained, not only by those that stood first in the way, but by those that were beyond them for a great space. As for the Jews, they at first watched the coming of the stone, for it was of a white color, and could therefore not only be perceived by the great noise it made, but could be seen also before it came by its brightness;” (5:6:3)...................
=================================
  • Idealism: (also called the spiritual approach, the allegorical approach, the nonliteral approach, and many other names) in Christian eschatology is an interpretation of the Book of Revelation that sees all of the imagery of the book as symbols.
  • Partial Preterism: Partial preterism holds that most eschatological prophecies, such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrists, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were fulfilled either in AD 70 or during the persecution of Christians under the Emperor Nero.
  • The Second coming and the resurrection of the dead, however, have not yet occurred in the partial preterist system.
Millennialism:
  • Amillennialism: "no millennium", rejects the theory that Jesus Christ will have a thousand-year-long, physical reign on the earth. The amillennial viewpoint holds that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age.
 
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BABerean2

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I can quote a lot of Preterist/Amill commentators that view 70AD Jerusalem is in Revelation 18 [which I have viewed since 2003] and still remain within orthodoxy.....

JOSEPHUS, OLIVET DISCOURSE AND BOOK OF REVELATION
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!

You can also make claims about a book you have not read.

You can also label the passage below, as "carnal".


Act 1:9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,
Act 1:11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."
.

Are you a Partial-Futurist?

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mkgal1

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You can also label the passage below, as "carnal".


Act 1:9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,
Act 1:11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."
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What was labeled as "carnal" was the emphasis on what's seen with our eyeballs (this passage was posted and highlighted with the words "sight" and "saw" in red) - neglecting to recognize that much of what's written in Acts is about what is seen with our Spiritual "eyes".

Remember......Saul was an expert in the Hebrew Scriptures prior to his conversion - yet he was blind spiritually to his Messiah prior to his conversion. Only until God - ironically - took away his sight with his biological eyes and ministered to him personally, did Saul SEE spiritually. Bible Gateway passage: Acts 9:1-19 - Holman Christian Standard Bible
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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There is a battle raging between those promoting different forms of Preterism in the Church of Christ, first established by Campbell.

2Ti 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,
2Ti 2:18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.

.
I finally decided to look up that Christian Denomination.

BTW, why do you quote 2 Tim 2 concerning them? Just curious.

==============================

Churches of Christ - Wikipedia

Churches of Christ are autonomous Christian congregations associated with one another through distinct beliefs and practices.

Represented chiefly in the United States and one of several branches to develop out of the American Restoration Movement, they claim biblical precedent for their doctrine and practice and trace their heritage back to the early Christian church as described in the New Testament.

More broadly, the Restoration Movement was an evangelistic and Bible-based effort launched in various places as several people sought a return to the original teachings and practices of the New Testament.

Christian leaders including Robert Sandeman, James O'Kelly, Abner Jones, Elias Smith, Rice Haggard, Thomas Campbell, Alexander Campbell, Walter Scott, and Barton W. Stone were trailblazers of similar movements that impacted the eventual phenomenon known as the American Restoration Movement.
================================

Restoration Movement - Wikipedia


The Restoration Movement (also known as the American Restoration Movement or the Stone-Campbell Movement, and pejoratively as Campbellism) is a Christian movement that began on the United States frontier during the Second Great Awakening (1790–1840) of the early 19th century.
The Second Great Awakening was a Protestant religious revival during the early 19th century in the United States. The movement began around 1790, gained momentum by 1800 and, after 1820, membership rose rapidly among Baptist and Methodist congregations whose preachers led the movement. It was past its peak by the late 1840s. In a reflection of Romanticism, the Second Great Awakening was characterized by enthusiasm, emotion, and an appeal to the supernatural. It rejected the skeptical rationalism and deism of the Enlightenment.
The Restoration Movement was not a purely North American phenomenon, and active mission efforts began in the 18th century.[7] There are now Churches of Christ in Africa, Asia, Australia, South America, Central America, and Europe.
The Restoration Movement developed from several independent strands of religious revival that idealized early Christianity.
Two groups, which independently developed similar approaches to the Christian faith, were particularly important.[6]

The first
, led by Barton W. Stone, began at Cane Ridge, Kentucky, and identified as "Christians".

The second
began in western Pennsylvania and Virginia (now West Virginia) and was led by Thomas Campbell and his son, Alexander Campbell, both educated in Scotland;
they eventually used the name "Disciples of Christ".

Both groups sought to restore the whole Christian church on the pattern set forth in the New Testament, and both believed that creeds kept Christianity divided.

In 1832 they joined in fellowship with a handshake.


=====
data_document_1201700052_encystonecampbell2.jpg
=====================================
Mar 4:11
And He said to them, “To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables,

Eph 5:32
This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Col 1:24
I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,

1Ti 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
==============================
Rev 10:7
but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets
 
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mkgal1

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There is a battle raging between those promoting different forms of Preterism in the Church of Christ, first established by Campbell.
Why are you singling out the Church of Christ? I hadn't noticed that originally. The "battle" you're referring to is much broader than just within one denomination.
 
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BABerean2

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Why are you singling out the Church of Christ? I hadn't noticed that originally. The "battle" you're referring to is much broader than just within one denomination.

I am not singling out the Church of Christ. It is nothing personal.

However, Don K. Preston came out the Church of Christ, and he is the leading proponent today of a type of Preterism I am not supposed to mention on this forum.

This has created a battle within that denomination.


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mkgal1

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This may be Campbell's main error (although today is the first day I've read about him)

- Campbell's general refusal of others' voices, like the forefathers of the faith, calling them polluted instead of valuing these voices and checking them against the Scriptures.
 
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mkgal1

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Just because a person had previous affiliation with one group - doesn't mean that's the belief framework they maintain. Most of us have left the beliefs behind that we've discovered as untrue & and picked up new revelations along the way in searching for Truth.
 
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BABerean2

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This may be Campbell's main error (although today is the first day I've read about him)

- Campbell's general refusal of others' voices, like the forefathers of the faith, calling them polluted instead of valuing these voices and checking them against the Scriptures.

His church promoted the idea that your sins are removed by water baptism.
They say... "Baptized for the remission of sin..."


They also claimed they were the only true Church.

Some have called it the "Restoration Movement".




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mkgal1

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His church promoted the idea that your sins are removed by water baptism.

They also claimed they were the only true Church.

Some have called it the "Restoration Movement".
That - coupled with the refusal to accept the words of our early church fathers is typically a good way to spot a cult.

I'm studying the book of Acts right now and something interesting that I'd never noticed before is how - when the people in Samaria responded to Philip's teaching - they didn't immediately receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:16). Peter and John came from Jerusalem in order to pray for the Holy Spirit to come on them. I've read that one explanation could be that this was for the sake of unity - to make sure the teaching (and understanding) was in line with what Peter and John were teaching (and for the Samaritans to recognize their connection to the church in Jerusalem).
 
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Christian Gedge

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BABerean2 said:
There is a battle raging between those promoting different forms of Preterism in the Church of Christ, first established by Campbell.

The Campbellites have been battling with each other and everybody else since they started. - everything from women wearing hats to whether we should baptize forwards or backwards. I went to a meeting once and left early in case I got stoned.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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BABerean2 said:
There is a battle raging between those promoting different forms of Preterism in the Church of Christ, first established by Campbell.
The Campbellites have been battling with each other and everybody else since they started. - everything from women wearing hats to whether we should baptize forwards or backwards. I went to a meeting once and left early in case I got stoned.
What was their preterism view on the Bible?

The Campbells weren't as bad as other so called preachers...........

What Happened to Doomsday Prophet Harold Camping After the World Didn't End?

Camping's first big prediction was for the rapture to occur on September 4 or 6, 1994. The "or" is significant, evidence of his hesitancy, which extended to the punctuation on the title of his book, 1994?. Camping arrived at those specific dates through a convoluted crunching of Biblical numbers. (He believed Jesus died on April 1, 33 AD, exactly 1978 years before April 1, 2011, and when you multiply that by the days in a solar year, and divide it by zzzz...) As a result of his obsession, nearly every Open Forum between '92 and '94 was dominated by Camping detailing his proof to enraptured listeners around the world.
============================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Rapture Refuted! Pre-tribulation Rapture and Premillennialism Refuted Home page
Rapture Refuted!


50 ways Pre-millennialism contradicts the Bible

 
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If you add 5% poison to the best food in the world, it can still kill you.
Poison, is still poison, based on Galatians 1:6-9.

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It wasn't that to begin with. The Disciples of Christ and Church of Christ were once one movement. It was actually ecumenical (although that's more of a modern word) and driven by a need to get back to basics and realize we're all brothers in the "Church of Christ". A fantastic goal... but it didn't last. These two things (getting back to basics vs ecumenism) tend to struggle with each other.

I'd say that the Disciples of Christ kind of carried on the original ecumenical spirit far more, but became so openended to the point of not having any strong identity. While the Church of Christ emphasized the fundamentals and became more and more stringent about them.
 
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