do you believe ufos are demons flying?

AvisG · Oct 23, 2019

renniks said:
That's silly.
They don't exist if they are just our spy planes or natural phenomenon like sunspots excetera.

You are determined to miss the point: "Spy planes and natural phenomena like sunspots that sane and intelligent people, including academics, scientists, dedicated researchers, law enforcement and the military are mistaking for something extraordinary and inexplicable" is a phenomenon that demands an explanation, regardless of what the explanation may be.

No one - no one - believes the UFO phenomena can be explained by spy planes and natural phenomena like sunspots. Could they be truly unknown natural phenomena - an unknown lifeform (e.g., ultra-terrestrials), an unknown manifestation of human psychology (e.g., the Jungian collective unconscious), unknown forces of nature? Sure, just as they could be demons, angels, aliens or interdimensional visitors.

We don't have to understand what UFOs are to know that a phenomenon exists. You are simply demonstrating that you have no grasp of the history or complexity of the phenomenon.

renniks · Oct 23, 2019

timewerx said:
Ironically, many Christians are in the same league as Atheists in rejecting supernatural phenomenon.

Miracles happen. UFO s? Never seen or experienced one .. why should I believe it in?

renniks · Oct 23, 2019

AvisG said:
You are determined to miss the point: "Spy planes and natural phenomena like sunspots that sane and intelligent people, including academics, scientists, dedicated researchers, law enforcement and the military are mistaking for something extraordinary and inexplicable" is a phenomenon that demands an explanation, regardless of what the explanation may be.

No one - no one - believes the UFO phenomena can be explained by spy planes and natural phenomena like sunspots. Could they be truly unknown natural phenomena - an unknown lifeform (e.g., ultra-terrestrials), an unknown manifestation of human psychology (e.g., the Jungian collective unconscious), unknown forces of nature? Sure, just as they could be demons, angels, aliens or interdimensional visitors.

We don't have to understand what UFOs are to know that a phenomenon exists. You are simply demonstrating that you have no grasp of the history or complexity of the phenomenon.

I'm over 50 years old and spent a lot of my lifetime outdoors. I have yet to see any unexplainable flying objects. I think the people that see them, want to see them.

Sanoy · Oct 23, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
The Bible does not talk about how Christ will redeem... "worlds" (plural) and how all of them will live on the New Earth. Nor does it say if these other worlds will be condemned at the judgment, either. This is merely the influence of Science Fiction upon men's minds (and their love for it). But the Bible tells us not to love the things of this world (See: 1 John 2:15-17). Also, those who have encounters with aliens sometimes smell brimstone, just as those people who have ghost encounters sometimes smell brimstone. Brimstone is associated with hell in the Bible. That is just one coincidence. Another coincidence is that whenever somebody gets involved in the occult, they are more likely to have alien encounters or alien abductions. Another coincidence is that these aliens or UFO saucer phenomenon can be cast out in the name of Jesus Christ.

I remember one time, I watched a video by a Pastor who referred to how the word "owl" can sometimes refer to demons in the Bible. The Pastor said that the shape and color of the eyes of owls matches up with the shape and color of the eyes of the ever popular grey alien that people see when they have alien encounters (i.e. black almond shaped eyes). At the time, I didn't think much of it. But then months later, I seen a trailer for a movie called "The 4th Kind" and it was a movie about alien encounters. What was disturbing is that they showed owls in the trailer with them morphing into these grey aliens. In the trailer, it looked like these people were being possessed, too. Very disturbing movie trailer.

I used to be a huge fan of Star Trek, and Science Fiction. I collected the five major series of Star Trek (at the time) on DVD from the Original Series to Enterprise (and knew many of the episodes by name). I even went to Star Trek Experience in Las Vegas (When it existed) several times, and I had been to one Star Trek convention. I even played the role playing game with my ole buddies. But after seeing the many sinful things being pushed within movies these days, I put away general sinful secular movie watching, and I now only watch Christian movies, educational documentaries, and a few occasional wholesome good family value romance films (to watch with my wife).

Another problem I had with Star Trek is that it promoted Atheism and Evolution.
Granted, there were a few episodes and exceptions to this, but they were not common (Unless you consider DS9's storyline on the alien like gods being like of the Bible - of which I do not agree with). The creator of Star Trek (Gene Roddenberry), was strongly against Christianity and he even insulted God and the Bible.

Most of the time, people love to fantasize about aliens out of their love for Science Fiction. But most of your Science Fiction pushes sinful things within them. So while I am glad you may consider aliens and UFO encounters as a part of a demonic deception, it is my encouragement to all to get in the Bible more and ask God to show one the truth on this, and He will. I know for a fact that aliens are a part of one of the many demonic deceptions in these last days. So my encouragement to all here is: Don't fall for it. Get in the Bible more and put away either your love for Science Fiction and or your love for the fascination of UFO encounters.

People ask, then why did God create the universe so big if there is no life on it?

Because God is big and He does things big and magnificent.
For God has even named all the stars.

I hope this helps and may God bless you today.

There is a whole book out on the correlation of owls and alien phenomenon. There is also a tie to owls and the Rephaim.

LizaMarie · Oct 23, 2019

This is a strange phenomenon indeed. In the late 1980s I read Whitley Streiber's Communion, and Transformation and also Budd Hopkins "Intruders".These books really scared me. This was before I re-committed my life to Christ and thought they could be extraterrestrials from other planets. I still don't completely rule out that God could have created life elsewhere, but I think the abduction phenomenon is not from other planets.
Dr. Hugh Ross, an astronomer, astrophysicist and Evangelical Pastor (not young Earth either) has written a book "Lights in the Sky and Little Green Men" which really destroys the ETH, given the long distances that are required for space travels, the impossibility of a planet supporting complex life (You have to read his book, but he believes the Earth and Universe are as old as scientists say they are, and the likelyhood of life arising from older stars is slim to none considering they don't have enough heavy metal to make rocky planets or something like that. ) Also he discounts wormhole travel. Earth is unique in having several unique conditions for life to exist at all, and it is miraculous. There was a book out by secular scientists "Rare Earth Why complex life is uncommon in the Universe." Now I'm not a scientist and so don't know if he's right. He believes that most of what we see are: Top secret military aircraft which is decades ahead of what is known by the general public or civilian scientists, as he notes in his book, aircraft seems to evolve from dirigibles in the 1890's to discs and black triangles in the '40's and 70's.
HUmanoid sightings are likely demonic in nature and he notes how they always discount Christianity and are "New Age like" and traumatize the abductees.
Dr. Michael S. Heiser, and Father Seraphim Rose, who covers UFO sightings back in his book"Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future" both account how today's humanoid sightings are very similar to demonic manifestations recounted by the Middle Ages and Heiser mentions the similarity between UFO abductions and the Incubi and Succubi torments of the Middle Ages(where strange beings appeared and sexually molested people).
I have a friend who has seen UFO's including one who is a pilot and another who has claimed abduction so this is why I was interested in the subject.
I believe we are dealing with interdimensional phenomena AKA the Demonic.
Even some secular UFO researchers believe they may be interdimensional such as Jacques Vallee.
ETA: Also there are Christians who have caused abductions to stop by praying to Jesus right in the middle of an abduction.

AvisG · Oct 23, 2019

timewerx said:
Some accounts reported normal human beings flying them (no pun intended!)

Not really surprising when the Bible's Greek word for "devil" can also mean a lawyer! A human lawyer!! (the accuser)

The term "satan" basically means "obstacle" or "foe." "The Satan" ("ha-satan") in Jewish mythology was a member of the Divine Council. Hence the book of Job. The Satan served a function as "the adversary" or even "the prosecutor" (of humanity), but he was clearly not the fiendish fallen angel of Christian theology. No, the Greek word for devil, "diabolos," does not mean "lawyer." It likewise means "accuser" or "slanderer." No Greek word for "devil" also means "lawyer." You could loosely say that a prosecuting attorney is an accuser, although even in criminal law the prosecutor is not the accuser.

FWIW, I did practice law for 37+ years.

It is true that UFO cases have often involved beings that at least appeared entirely human - part of the mystery of the phenomenon.

AvisG · Oct 23, 2019

Sanoy said:
There is a whole book out on the correlation of owls and alien phenomenon. There is also a tie to owls and the Rephaim.

The "grays" with the huge eyes such as appear on the cover of Communion have become the accepted alien meme. These days, if you report an alien encounter with anything other than a big-eyed gray, you are obviously not the Real Deal. (In reality, the creatures that have been reported would fill a large encyclopedia.) Anyway, many "alien abductions" that were recovered through hypnosis involved people who had conscious memories of huge owls (i.e., they were really bug-eyed grays). i won't say the entire alien abduction phenomenon has gone poof, but the leading "researchers" of the phenomenon (notably Budd Hopkins) have been pretty thoroughly discredited and the abduction community now mostly comprises True Believers for whom it is a quasi-religion.

AvisG · Oct 23, 2019

renniks said:
I'm over 50 years old and spent a lot of my lifetime outdoors. I have yet to see any unexplainable flying objects. I think the people that see them, want to see them.

I'll be 70 years old in a few months. I've spent virtually my entire life in Arizona - which, like all of the Southwest, is something of a UFO hotspot. I've seen precisely one UFO, as I described - in Nevada, during daylight hours, in the company of an arch-skeptic who just about wet his knickers. I would've LOVED to have seen multiple UFOs, but I haven't.

One of my close friends is one of the major players in UFO research - he was on the Tonight show, the Tom Snyder show, and is widely recognized. To his great disappointment, he has never seen any UFO. This is quite common.

Nevertheless, credible people who have utterly no interest in UFOs - engineers, ranchers, police officers, secretaries, attorneys - have described to me one-time encounters that were close-up, inexplicable, and truly mind-blowing. Every researcher would tell you the same thing.

I'm not sure what your agenda is, but you're simply demonstrating that you're uninformed about this subject.

AvisG · Oct 23, 2019

I'll close out my involvement on this thread with the following:

I've been fascinated by UFOs since 1958. I appreciate the well-meaning concern for my involvement, but it's a little late to be worrying about that now.
There was a period when my interest in UFOs was something of an obsession and a distraction. I've done this with many areas of what I fondly refer to as "weirdness." To a large degree I've gradually lost this interest in UFOs over the past 20 years just because there is really nothing new happening in the field.
While I recognize the dangers inherent in becoming involved in what fundamentalists broadly characterize as "the occult," my intense studies in these areas have only enhanced my theistic and Christian beliefs.
Precisely because of the dangers, I don't recommend such studies to others. Such studies aren't for everyone. You need to be psychologically healthy and keep your wits (and the Holy Spirit!) about you at all times. I've never "invited" experiences and would never do so. I likewise have never experienced anything that I'd characterize as "evil" or "demonic."
Until recent years, I would never even have considered "the demonic" as a viable explanation for the UFO phenomenon. Now I would. The phenomenon is just so weird that it demands thinking outside the box. And it clearly does have an intelligence behind it - an intelligence that could well be demonic since there is no evidence that it is "up to" anything except to terrify, confuse, distract and obsess. (Interestingly, in the theology of exorcism "obsession" is a lesser stage of full-tilt "possession.")

And that's all I have to say about that!

renniks · Oct 23, 2019

AvisG said:
I'll be 70 years old in a few months. I've spent virtually my entire life in Arizona - which, like all of the Southwest, is something of a UFO hotspot. I've seen precisely one UFO, as I described - in Nevada, during daylight hours, in the company of an arch-skeptic who just about wet his knickers. I would've LOVED to have seen multiple UFOs, but I haven't.

One of my close friends is one of the major players in UFO research - he was on the Tonight show, the Tom Snyder show, and is widely recognized. To his great disappointment, he has never seen any UFO. This is quite common.

Nevertheless, credible people who have utterly no interest in UFOs - engineers, ranchers, police officers, secretaries, attorneys - have described to me one-time encounters that were close-up, inexplicable, and truly mind-blowing. Every researcher would tell you the same thing.

I'm not sure what your agenda is, but you're simply demonstrating that you're uninformed about this subject.

Like I said at the beginning, you have to convince me they exist first. You're not doing a very good job of that.

Kaon · Oct 23, 2019

renniks said:
Like I said at the beginning, you have to convince me they exist first. You're not doing a very good job of that.

No one can convince you of anything; you are an adult. It is an exercise in futility - in the same way no one can convince you of the existence of the Redeemer. You have to trust the information that drives you to the conclusion you reach (faith, in the absence of evidence). You can choose not to believe which is perfectly fine; where it becomes problematic is when the insinuation of disbelief bleeds into a declaration of what is, and what isn't possible - even what has, and what hasn't happened.

ViaCrucis · Oct 23, 2019

lambofgod43985889 said:
or not

Not.

I don't believe UFOs are evidence of extraterrestrial visitors either. I think there are rational explanations for such sightings that don't involve either an alien or a demonic explanation.

A UFO is simply an unidentified flying object; some sightings are legitimate (people actually saw something, perhaps it was weather phenomena, perhaps something else, but I don't believe they saw visitors from another world) and some sightings are not legitimate (hoaxes, a person's imagination run amok, etc).

There's no reason to think the explanation is either "aliens" or "demons"; not when there are perfectly mundane, rational explanations available. Including that people imagined what they saw or are straight up lying.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Oct 23, 2019

DavidPT said:
It seems logical to me that that's who they would be meaning. Demons have to get around somehow. Why not in these ufos people have reported seeing?

I mean, how can a fallen angel get to their day job unless they drive there? Personally I think they all drive a Prius.

-CryptoLutheran

lambofgod43985889 · Oct 23, 2019

in the first post when i said: ufos are demons flying

i didnt mean that they use objects to fly, i tried to say the entire thing people call ufo are demons no necessarily using machines, i said flying on their own

Kaon · Oct 23, 2019

lambofgod43985889 said:
in the first post when i said: ufos are demons flying

i didnt mean that they use objects to fly, i tried to say the entire thing people call ufo are demons no necessarily using machines, i said flying on their own

They may need machines as well; they are disembodied spirits, so they need a vessel to interact with matter on a large scale.

The purpose of a machine like the quintessential "UFO" is to move around in places you have no business being. We are not supposed to be 36,000 feet in the air, for example, so we make vehicles to take us there.

Demons are not supposed to be on this plane of existence, so they may use vehicles to bring them in deeper interaction with this plane of existence. Remember, the angels of God did not need chariots; they came often with corporal bodies of their own.

timothyu · Oct 23, 2019

bekkilyn said:
when they can very easily influence humans simply by setting up a YouTube channel or starting a blog.

Or post in forums

Sanoy · Oct 23, 2019

Dave-W said:
I was in a UFO club in high school. We did a lot of research on abductions and contact. every instance we found had the "aliens" saying stuff that seemed like new age rhetoric, but that was a decade before the New Age movement got started.

Yep, if you watch Steven Greers channel, it's pure Gnosticism.

renniks · Oct 23, 2019

Kaon said:
No one can convince you of anything; you are an adult. It is an exercise in futility - in the same way no one can convince you of the existence of the Redeemer. You have to trust the information that drives you to the conclusion you reach (faith, in the absence of evidence). You can choose not to believe which is perfectly fine; where it becomes problematic is when the insinuation of disbelief bleeds into a declaration of what is, and what isn't possible - even what has, and what hasn't happened.

Sure, but to expect one to believe without evidence is silly. I believe in God because of faith plus evidence. The creation itself is proof enough. What others have basically been doing on this thread is telling me that because other people have supposedly seen things that are unexplainable, UFOs are real. Ok, but I need something a bit more concrete than, he said, or she said that they saw something, to even take it seriously. I can see everything that God created. But where is the physical evidence for aliens?

Sanoy · Oct 23, 2019

What convinced me that this is real is the testimonies. I have watched over 20hrs of it from respectable people. There is only so many times that you can call someone crazy or a liar before you have to start doubting yourself. It quickly becomes more difficult to deny than to accept. In the end one is left with two inexplicable worlds, a world where these thing didn't happen despite the testimony of credible people, and a world where these things did happen. After due diligence in discovering the content of this phenomenon there is really only one choice left to make sense of both sides, that we live in both a physical and a spiritual world, and sometimes they collide.

Kaon · Oct 23, 2019

renniks said:
Sure, but to expect one to believe without evidence is silly. I believe in God because of faith plus evidence.

Aren't you a Christian? What evidence do you have the Redeemer exists? How do you explain that to an atheist? Would you agree that, because an atheist may think it's silly to believe in the Redeemer, your knowledge of the Redeemer is also silly?

Humans handicap themselves with logic and reason - especially surprised and perplexed by the inevitability of the illogical and unreasonable. The individual chooses what to entertain. God speaks of demons and raising the dead; why are you marvelling about demons and UFOs? This should be common knowledge for you.

The creation itself is proof enough. What others have basically been doing on this thread is telling me that because other people have supposedly seen things that are unexplainable, UFOs are real. Ok, but I need something a bit more concrete than, he said, or she said that they saw something, to even take it seriously. I can see everything that God created. But where is the physical evidence for aliens?

You say creation itself is proof enough - I could say you have abysmal standards for proof. Creation doesn't prove a god exists any more than it proves it evolved from its own footprint. You don't actually have "evidence" to show that the Most High God exists, because you are handicapped by human logic and reason. In other words, your reasonable and logical explanation for the Most High God will not suffice for a skeptic. This is specifically because (the Most High) God is not logical or reasonable to a skeptic.

There is plenty of physical evidence for "aliens", and in the canonical, apocrypha and gnostic texts there is plenty information on what these entities are. There are also declassified documents that highlight the exact ships people see as UFOs, and what they are. There are manuscripts on the analysis of UFO abduction, sleep paralysis and other psychic phenomena.

You have not been exposed to the physical evidence for whatever reason, but your ignorance of the depth of the matter(s) does not disqualify it as real. It is an insult to the people who experienced what they experienced - which is why only few people say things. If you truly want to know (or be convinced), stop saying it is silly, and entertain it for the sake of validation of research. You cannot possibly know what is silly, because you do not know everything.

do you believe ufos are demons flying?

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