Celibacy Debate

Carl Emerson · Oct 16, 2019

tz620q said:
I think Joy Crowley seemed sincere and probably is disturbed that her friend was forced to leave his job; but he went into the job knowing the requirements and took a vow that he has now broken. It can become so easy to slip into the modern viewpoint that sees sex as the ultimate goal. It is hard to judge the extent of the Bishop's sin without knowing the age of the girl; but I am reminded of something that Oprah Winfrey said during the Bill Clinton scandal with his intern, Monica Lewinsky. She said that she had interns as well and could not condone any behavior that Bill Clinton did towards an intern because the power dynamic is so tilted that the intern could not feel in complete control of the situation.

Mrs. Crowley seems to think that love justifies anything. This is an admirable sentiment; but she does not really know if the Bishop fell in love with this girl. If so and if love justifies anything, then the Bishop should be happy to move on and marry this girl. For the Bishop to do this, break his vow, and keep his job would be more of a scandal than his leaving the post to marry. Catholic Bishops should be held to a very high standard of morality and it is painful and disappointing when some do not live up to this. Ignoring their indiscretions or even allowing them is to let the way of the world conquer over the way of Christ.

Thank you for you reasoned response.

I take issue with one point she made. "love justifies anything"

This is a serious mistake - God's love is always moral.

Folks seem to believe that when you are 'in love' anything is OK when the relationship can be lust driven, co-dependent, leading to serious dysfunction.

To elevate being 'in love' above God's love and laws is critical, but society has progressively lost sight of this and anything goes in the days of Noah.

Now we see this lady wanting even to sanctify this error.

Kaon · Oct 16, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Comments on this article would be interesting...

Priest's sexual relationship 'would make him a much better bishop' - Children's author Joy Cowley

Institutional collateral damage.

tz620q · Oct 16, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Thank you for you reasoned response.

I take issue with one point she made. "love justifies anything"

This is a serious mistake - God's love is always moral.

Folks seem to believe that when you are 'in love' anything is OK when the relationship can be lust driven, co-dependent, leading to serious dysfunction.

To elevate being 'in love' above God's love and laws is critical, but society has progressively lost sight of this and anything goes in the days of Noah.

Now we see this lady wanting even to sanctify this error.

Great post. You do well to place "love" where it should be, within God's love. My wife and I like to watch Hallmark movies, which are mainly romance novels brought to the small screen. They are pure fluff and quickly repetitious; but at least they portray an innocence in romance that is lacking in nearly all modern movies. The thing is that for this Christmas season they will probably premier over 20 new movies and I doubt if more than one of these will even mention Christ or God's love for us. It is rather sad that they make Christmas more about getting a guy than about honoring Christ.

PaulCyp1 · Oct 16, 2019

Obviously, "sexual relationship" could exist only within the context of marriage. My pastor is often on the go 14 to 16 hours a day, celebrating Mass, hearing confessions, doing baptisms, meeting with people for counseling, directing various parish groups, attending required diocesan meetings, sometimes driving the parish food truck for the poor and needy, etc. Not much time for a wife and family if he is going to get any sleep.

Kaon · Oct 16, 2019

PaulCyp1 said:
Obviously, "sexual relationship" could exist only within the context of marriage. My pastor is often on the go 14 to 16 hours a day, celebrating Mass, hearing confessions, doing baptisms, meeting with people for counseling, directing various parish groups, attending required diocesan meetings, sometimes driving the parish food truck for the poor and needy, etc. Not much time for a wife and family if he is going to get any sleep.

A female is a powerful entity, just like a male. They are two sides of the same coin.

A female can ease the pastor's load by sheer confidence and company. It is amazing what the presence of a woman can do for productivity. A man that finds his "mate" will be surprised at the amount time that evolves free with the right woman. That is the beauty of a marriage under the Most High God.

I had that up to a point; it's amazing to see how much you learn about yourself as a man with the right woman. If I can understand and experience this, I am sure a pastor/priest can (with the help of the Most High God.)

Light of the East · Oct 16, 2019

PaulCyp1 said:
Obviously, "sexual relationship" could exist only within the context of marriage. My pastor is often on the go 14 to 16 hours a day, celebrating Mass, hearing confessions, doing baptisms, meeting with people for counseling, directing various parish groups, attending required diocesan meetings, sometimes driving the parish food truck for the poor and needy, etc. Not much time for a wife and family if he is going to get any sleep.

Perhaps if your church opened up the priesthood to married men your pastor would not be the sole priest and there would be men with which to share the duties? You think?

Julian of Norwich · Oct 16, 2019

concretecamper said:
What % of alleged cases were prepubescent boys or girls? Remember, I asked alleged.

80% were young boys.

concretecamper · Oct 16, 2019

Julian of Norwich said:
80% were young boys.

you didnt answer the question.

The problem with the abuse crisis is A GAY PROBLEM. Of course you'll find the occasional pervert (in about the same % as EO or protestant).

Julian of Norwich · Oct 16, 2019

I agree with you. When I stated "young boys" I meant what the statement I read stated - 11-17 year boys. Yes, very obviously to me it shows the vast increase of the "Lavender Mafia".

Maria Billingsley · Oct 17, 2019

concretecamper said:
The problem with the abuse crisis is A GAY PROBLEM.

I am glad you pointed this out. It is fierce problem in Vatican City. Beyond the abuse of children it is the homosexual culture, men with men. A celibacy vow does not weed out these men unfortunately. Perhaps these men come innocently into the Priesthood at a young age and get corrupted by gay Priests. After all, it is very difficult to sustain celibacy for the rest of one's life. God did not make us this way. Though I understand there is a good percentage of legitimate Holy men who love God in the RCC, they should be the individuals who "call out" this corruption and reform the system. I hope your friend is on that task.
Blessings

concretecamper · Oct 17, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
I am glad you pointed this out. It is fierce problem in Vatican City. Beyond the abuse of children it is the homosexual culture, men with men. A celibacy vow does not weed out these men unfortunately. Perhaps these men come innocently into the Priesthood at a young age and get corrupted by gay Priests. After all, it is very difficult to sustain celibacy for the rest of one's life. God did not make us this way. Though I understand there is a good percentage of legitimate Holy men who love God in the RCC, they should be the individuals who "call out" this corruption and reform the system. I hope your friend is on that task.
Blessings

I can tell you know nothing about the reason and value of the discipline of celibacy. But everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Maria Billingsley · Oct 17, 2019

concretecamper said:
I can tell you know nothing about the reason and value of the discipline of celibacy. But everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Well, you do not know me. I have been celibate for three years and know exactly how it feels and how difficult it is.
Blessings

concretecamper · Oct 17, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
Well, you do not know me. I have been celibate for three years and know exactly how it feels and how difficult it is.
Blessings

ok, but still, I can tell you know nothing about the reason and value of the discipline of celibacy.

Maria Billingsley · Oct 17, 2019

concretecamper said:
ok, but still, I can tell you know nothing about the reason and value of the discipline of celibacy.

No, not OK to say.... but still..... I am very much familiar with the reason and the value. It is a discipline, and not many can endure what it takes. Most will fail and turn to their lust. The flesh is weak. I am a Catholic for life, in the case you think I am not. I want to be part of the solution not just step aside. Let those who acknowledge the truth reign in the RCC. You will see much change when the walk is truly with the Holy Spirit.

concretecamper · Oct 17, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
No, not OK to say.... but still..... I am very much familiar with the reason and the value. It is a discipline, and not many can endure what it takes. Most will fail and turn to their lust. The flesh is weak. I am a Catholic for life, in the case you think I am not. I want to be part of the solution not just step aside. Let those who acknowledge the truth reign in the RCC. You will see much change when the walk is truly with the Holy Spirit.

Great! But I can tell you know nothing about the reason and value of the discipline of celibacy. But everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Julian of Norwich · Oct 17, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
Well, you do not know me. I have been celibate for three years and know exactly how it feels and how difficult it is.
Blessings

I have been celibate for 16 years and yes, at first self-control was needed every so often - but it really has not been that bad, certainly not near as difficult as this super-sex crazed culture would have you believe!

tz620q · Oct 18, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
I am glad you pointed this out. It is fierce problem in Vatican City. Beyond the abuse of children it is the homosexual culture, men with men. A celibacy vow does not weed out these men unfortunately. Perhaps these men come innocently into the Priesthood at a young age and get corrupted by gay Priests. After all, it is very difficult to sustain celibacy for the rest of one's life. God did not make us this way. Though I understand there is a good percentage of legitimate Holy men who love God in the RCC, they should be the individuals who "call out" this corruption and reform the system. I hope your friend is on that task.
Blessings

I found it amazing to watch the sex abuse scandals and how they refused to report that the majority of cases were not pedophilia, but homosexual relations with a post pubescent boy. It is still a vile sin and I agree with your repulsion; but it showed how far our media will go to hide the warts of homosexuals. By the way, in the early 2000's most seminaries put in place some form of psychological testing to try to uncover these tendencies in seminary students and stop as many men from becoming priests to engage in a homosexual lifestyle as possible. Time will tell whether this effort is effective.

Maria Billingsley · Oct 18, 2019

tz620q said:
I found it amazing to watch the sex abuse scandals and how they refused to report that the majority of cases were not pedophilia, but homosexual relations with a post pubescent boy. It is still a vile sin and I agree with your repulsion; but it showed how far our media will go to hide the warts of homosexuals. By the way, in the early 2000's most seminaries put in place some form of psychological testing to try to uncover these tendencies in seminary students and stop as many men from becoming priests to engage in a homosexual lifestyle as possible. Time will tell whether this effort is effective.

I truly believe a good percentage of young men do not go into the seminary as homosexuals. I believe they get corrupted by their mentors, older priests. At least this is what has been uncovered in the Vatican. The Lavender Mafia.

GreekOrthodox · Oct 23, 2019

concretecamper said:
Great! But I can tell you know nothing about the reason and value of the discipline of celibacy. But everyone is entitled to an opinion.

So how do you view married priests from Eastern Rite Catholic churches such as Maronites or Melkites?

concretecamper · Oct 23, 2019

GreekOrthodox said:
So how do you view married priests from Eastern Rite Catholic churches such as Maronites or Melkites?

I view them as servants of God.

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