What day is the sabath what day does the bible say?

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klutedavid

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That couldn't happen though. The 7th day would always be 7 days away. But in your calculations, it could literally be the 3rd day and also the 7th day at the same time since you consider the days of the month separate from the days of a week not based on a month of weeks.
I am not saying that at all.

The Sabbath day is literally seven days after the new moon. No Sabbath day is ever more than seven or multiples of seven from the new moon day.

The Sabbath day, the seventh day, can never be on the third day and the that is ridiculous.
 
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Semper-Fi

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Please explain what you mean when you say for example the third day, i.e., the third day of what?

[No Sabbath day is ever more than seven or multiples of seven from the new moon day.

If the 28 th of the month was a 7th day Sabbath,
3 days later would be a new moon [a Sabbath]?,
or from the 28th to the 7th day of month
is nine days time.

There is a reason they call it
the seventh day Sabbath.

Soyeong posted information
that proves a continuous cycle of weeks.

In Leviticus 23:15-16, Shavuot happened on the day after the 7th Sabbath for a total of 50 days. However, if the Sabbath was reset to the first of every lunar month, then there would be partial weeks at the end of every month and the day after the 7th Sabbath would never total 50 days.

You have to count to 50 to figure
out the Holy day of Pentecost.
7 weeks exactly , plus one day.

This would not work with a break
in the weekly cycle.
 
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klutedavid

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If the 28 th of the month was a 7th day Sabbath, 3 days later would be a new moon
[a Sabbath]?, or from the 28th to the 7th day of month is nine days time.

There is a reason they call it
the seventh day Sabbath.

Soyeong posted information
that proves a continious cycle of weeks.
The new moon is a Sabbath?

How can the first day of the month be a Sabbath?

The count is from the first of the Hebrew lunar month, the new moon day, and that signals a Sabbath on the seventh day.

Your saying the seventh day is not a Sabbath because your counting from some where in the previous month. So you can have a rest on the new moon day and then a Sabbath day on the very next day. When God declared six days of work then the rest day.

Your resting on two days without any six days of work.
 
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ewq1938

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My post wasn't addressed to you.

I am not saying that at all.

The Sabbath day is literally seven days after the new moon. No Sabbath day is ever more than seven or multiples of seven from the new moon day.

The Sabbath day, the seventh day, can never be on the third day and the that is ridiculous.
 
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Semper-Fi

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The new moon is a Sabbath?

How can the first day of the month be a Sabbath?

You mentioned before to someone
you where not sure if the was or not.

28 th to the 7th of month, using a 30
day month would be 9 days .
Breaking the commandments.

[Pentacost] seven 7 day weeks = 49
Counting from A Sabbath, 50 days later
would always fall on a Sunday[ the
first day of the week]
 
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Semper-Fi

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That couldn't happen though.
That would happen all the time if the weekly cycle was interrupted ever month. You would have 9 days between a saturday Sabbath days.
 
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ewq1938

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That would happen all the time if the weekly cycle was interrupted ever month. You would have 9 days between a saturday Sabbath days.

No, it couldn't happen because the 7th day is always 7 days away not 3 days away in the scenario you posted.In the monthly calendar, the 7th day Sabbath is not on a Saturday most of the time. It hasn't been on a Saturday this entire month and looking to next month it won't be on Saturday either.
 
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Semper-Fi

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In the monthly calendar, the 7th day Sabbath is not on a Saturday most of the time. It hasn't been on a Saturday this entire month and looking to next month it won't be on Saturday either.

Well if the seventh day of week is wrong,
then so is the first day of the wrong today.
 
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Semper-Fi

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To calculate the 7th day you count 7 days not 9 days.
Yes I know that, the 7th Day Sabbath
is every 7th day. This has been happening
since God made the weekly cycle in the Garden

[If] there was a break in the weekly cycle,
this would be off every month between months
by 2 or so days.Nowhere does it say you count
the weekly cycle by the monthly cycle.
 
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ewq1938

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Yes I know that, the 7th Day Sabbath
is every 7th day. This has been happening
since God made the weekly cycle in the Garden


There is zero evidence God told anyone about the first Sabbath, nor was there ever a second Sabbath for God. Also, since man was created the day before that first Sabbath, working 6 days from creation means IF man was even told of the Sabbath, man's Sabbath was not on the same day God's Sabbath was since working 6 days started at different days for man and God.

The first we read of God telling anyone about the Sabbath is in Exodus. Did he tell them about it on the new moon day, working 6 days and then having the Sabbath on the 7th day of the month? Or did he tell them to start the work week somewhere in the middle of the week of the month as you presume?

At least we have shown that the new moon was counted as day one and days we numbered after that.

There is no evidence about this second type of day counting that is out of sync with the 1st day of each Jewish month.
 
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Semper-Fi

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A warning-about entering into His rest.

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

-how did they came short?

Heb 4:2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by (faith) with them that heard.

-they did not have faith.

Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest;even as he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;

-notice entering into that rest is connected with the seventh day.

Heb 4:5 and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto, and they to whom the good tidings were before preached

Heb 4:7 he again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before), To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.

Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day.

-David said "today" long after Joshua took them into the promised land so thus proving that there is a rest still to be entered.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his. Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Heb 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holy of holies;
Heb 9:4 having a golden altar of incense, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was a golden pot holding the manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

-the pot of manna was put in the most Holy

Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which Jehovah thy God hath led thee these forty years in the wilderness, that he might humble thee, to prove thee, to know what was in thy heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or not.
Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know

that man doth not live by bread only, but by everything that proceedeth out of the mouth of Jehovah doth man live.

And thou shalt remember all the way which the Lord thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no. Deuteronomy 8:2

-God tested them for 40 years to humble them to see what was in their hearts. that they should live by every word (10 commandments spoken by Gods own mouth) not by bread alone.

-what did the bread teach?

Exo 16:4 Then said Jehovah unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a day's portion every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or not.

Exo 16:5 And it shall come to pass on the sixth day, that they shall prepare that which they bring in, and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

-and how long did God prove them with the manna?

Exo 16:32 And Moses said, This is the thing which Jehovah hath commanded, Let
an omerful of it be kept throughout your generations, that they may see the bread
wherewith I fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt.

Exo 16:33 And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a pot, and put an omerful of manna therein,
and lay it up before Jehovah, to be kept throughout your generations.

As Jehovah commanded Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept.
And the children of Israel did eat the manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited;
they did eat the manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan.

-40 years. this is the issue being spoken of in Hebrews:

Heb 3:16 For who, when they heard, did provoke? nay, did not all they that came out of Egypt by Moses?

Heb 3:17 And with whom was he displeased forty years? was it not with them that sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient?
Heb 3:19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:4-10 "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works [Gen. 2:2-3].

And in this [place again],

If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief [sound familiar?]: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest [see below] to the people of God. For he that is entered
into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."

rest (G4520) sabbatismos
1. a keeping sabbath
2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by
the true worshippers of God and true Christians
from a derivative of G4521

(G4521) sabbaton
1. the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites
were required to abstain from all work
1a. the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
1b. a single sabbath, sabbath day
2. seven days, a week
of Hebrew origin H7676

(H7676) shabba^th
1. Sabbath
1a. sabbath
1b. day of atonement
1c. sabbath year
1d. week
1e. produce (in sabbath year)
intensive from H7673

(7673) sha^bath
1. to cease, desist, rest
1a. (Qal)
1a-1. to cease
1a-2. to rest, desist (from labour)
1b. (Niphal) to cease
1c. (Hiphil)
1c-1. to cause to cease, put an end to
1c-2. to exterminate, destroy
1c-3. to cause to desist from
1c-4. to remove
1c-5. to cause to fail
2. (Qal) to keep or observe the sabbath
a primitive root

Genesis 2:2-3 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."

The LORD created the seventh day (Sabbath), blessed and sanctified it "because that in it he had rested from all his work".

-once God has blessed something, can it be undone?

Numbers 23:19-20 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Behold, I have received commandment to bless: and he hath blessed; and [I cannot reverse it]."

-Here Balaam tells Balak that the LORD gave him a commandment to bless Israel.

He told Balak that what the LORD has blessed, he cannot reverse it. Do we think we can reverse the blessing the LORD has placed on something?

1 Chronicles 17:26-27 "And now, LORD, thou art God, and hast promised this goodness unto thy servant: Now therefore let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may be before thee for ever: for thou blessest, O LORD, and it shall be blessed for ever."
 
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packermann

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Well the first part of the sentence is in the Bible: In the Decalogue the Sabbath is connected to the remembrance of being a slave in Egypt. See also Ezechiel 20:
10 So I led them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness. 11 I gave them my statutes and made known to them my rules, by which, if a person does them, he shall live. 12 Moreover, I gave them my Sabbaths, as a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.

He tied it to creation. God did not institute the Sabbath because it took God six days to lead the Israelites out of Egypt and then rested. God instituted the Sabbath because it took God six days (this does mean I accept it to be literally six days, but that is another topic) to create and then rested. And creation affects both Jew and Gentile.

As shown above, this is a half-truth. Even in the 4nd commandment you can find the exodus in the Deuteronomy version of the Decalogue:
Deut 5:12 “Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant, or your ox or your donkey or any of your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

You are taking Deuteronomy IN PLACE OF Exodus. We need to hold onto both.
Deuteronomy emphasizes the covenant relationship God had with Israel. They are to obey all the commands because God delivered them from Egypt. This is not to say that there is nothing about Israel's covenant in Exodus. But the reason that God commanded this was because of creation.

Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Exodus 20:8-11

Both must be held up. Scripture cannot be broken. And since Deuteronomy does not nullify Exodus, you must still deal with the Exodus passage that God command this because of creation. And since the Israelites were not the only ones who were created we all need to keep this command, just we all should not kill, or lie, or commit adultery.
There is no hint in the Bible that the Sabbath is given to people outside Israel. Not even to the believers that come to Christ as a people of the Lord (cf. Acts 15:14ff)

Neither is there a hint in the Bible that the command against graven images is given to people outside Israel. And yet we Catholics are condemned for having statues, where the only verses that are quoted against graven images are in the Old Testament to Israel. Would you agree that this a double-standard?

On the other hand, nowhere in the NT it is said that believers from the Gentiles are bound to the law of Moses. The part of the Torah we should obey can be found in Acts 15. Unless there is another verse in the NT that says we should follow a certain command, the rest is not binding for non-Jewish Christians.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:17-20

Jesus did not come to destroy the Torah and the prophets. He came to fulfill. Anyone who breaks the least of these commands will be least in heaven. And anyone who keeps them, and teaches others to keep them, shall be called great in heaven.

For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Romans 8:3-4

Paul wrote this to the Roman Gentiles. The law [Torah] is to be fully met in US, who walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh.
 
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klutedavid

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The 28 th to the 7th of month is not 7 days
There are no days after the fourth Sabbath of the lunar month that count for anything, it is the end of the lunar month.

The new moon triggers the start of the month and the count of the days.

As I said before, the seventh day is the seventh day of the lunar month, not the seventh day of some Roman Papal month.
 
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Soyeong

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Brother ..I do not disagree with much of what I believe I understand you saying but this is a common disagreement . There is truly nothing new under the sun . Justification verses sanctification . Works verses law . Grace verses concern over license and/or perceived disobedience .
What is keeping a day holy ? And how is not every day holy in Christ . How is that a bad thing ? How is that not a better thing than one day ?
Jesus did in a sense break the old covenant by becoming our high priest and became a curse for hanging on a tree . And the old covenant (Torah )was composed of God's commandments . They are beautiful commandments but could not perform what a new heart can for a new heart is from God .

Graciousness and righteousness have always been compatible character traits of the same God, which He expressed throughout the Bible (Exodus 34:6-7, Psalms 119:29). In Hebrews 11:7, Noah was listed as an example of faith and in Genesis 6:8-9, it says that he found grace in the eyes of God and that he was a righteous man, so he was saved by grace through faith in the same one and only way as everyone else.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is essentially what God's Law was given to instruct us how to do. Furthermore, verse 14 says that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all Lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believe in what Jesus accomplished on the cross, then we will become zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's Law (Acts 21:20) and will not return to the Lawlessness that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from. Our salvation is from sin and sin is defined as disobedience to God's Law (1 John 3:4), so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's Law through faith is what being saved from living in disobedience to God's Law looks like.

God commanded His followers to keep the Sabbath holy by doing no work and by having a holy convocation. So if we did on every day what God wants us to do on the Sabbath, then we would do no work, but God also wants us to work.

I do somewhat question part of the statement the statement , All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent from their sins and to return to obedience to His Law , and even Christ began his ministry with that message . I believe the message was ' Repentance unto God Himself although in Acts 20:21 the preaching was repentance towards God and faith in Jesus Christ ) Of course there were periods of repentance all through the Bible but often there was an outward observance which lead to self-righteousness . They did not have God's heart ..they were not born again . They were the older brother of the prodigal son and keeping the law ( like our brother Saul/ Paul . ) So actually , they needed to run back to the Father ....not to the Law per se . The prodigal could have kept the law but still been away from his Father and this is what I often see . Law keepers justified by the law but no love for the Father . This is my concern with the emphasis on many movements which I have seen . Obedience to establish justification ...and you are correct ...this was Paul's concern in Galatians . One becomes part of " the in-group " .

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23) and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of Christ. The same goes for Acts 2:38 when Peter told his audience to repent for the forgiveness of sins. In Romans 15:4, Paul said OT Scripture was written for our instruction and in 15:18-19, His Gospel message involved bringing the Gentiles to full obedience in word and in deed, so he was on the same page as Jesus in regard to teaching repentance from our sins.

If God's Law were His instructions for how to become self-righteous, and God does not want us to become self-righteous, then it would follow that therefore God doesn't want to be obeyed, which is absurd, therefore God's Law was not given as instructions for how to become self-righteous, and as instructions for how to express God's righteousness. In Romans 10:4, Jesus is the goal of the Law for righteousness for everyone who has faith and in Philippians 3:8, Paul had been outwardly keeping the Law without having a focus on knowing Christ, so he had been missing the whole goal of the Law, and counted it all as rubbish, so the right solution to incorrectly obeying God's Law is to repent and to start obeying it correctly with the right focus, not to stop obeying God.

I see that you are messianic . Does this mean you are Jewish by birth and a follower of Jesus Christ by new birth ?

Jesus did not come to start his own religion following a different god, but rather he came to bring fullness to Judaism as its Jewish Messiah in fulfillment of Jewish prophecy. He practice Judaism by sinlessly keeping the Torah and by teaching his followers how to obey it by word and by example. All Christians were Torah observant Jews for roughly the first 7-15 years after Christ's resurrection up until the inclusion of Gentiles in Acts 10, so Christianity at its origin was the form of Judaism that Jesus practiced and which recognized him as their prophesied Messiah, and this is the form of Christianity that I seek to follow with the inclusion of Gentiles. So it is not necessary for Messianics to be Jewish by birth and in fact Gentile Messianics far outnumber Jewish Messianics due to Jews making up a small percentage of the world's population, however, I do happen to be a Jew by birth and a follower of Jesus by new birth.

And yes , we are to keep the Sabbath Holy and the Sabbath is friday at sundown until Saturday at sundown . I keep it Holy by going out and looking for lambs who have fallen in a ditch ...by looking for withered hands and hearts who do not know the love of God or who have gotten lost in religion . All things are lawful for me but not all things are expedient . ( I realize Paul was not saying things like fornication or covetousness was lawful . )
Also , when Paul was saying " to the Jew , he became as a Jew ..to those without Law , etc. What do you think he was saying ? He obviously did not become a murderer to win murderers .

Loving others is way to spend the Sabbath. If you think that Paul was saying that all things are lawful, then that would include everything that Paul said in 1 Corinthians 6:9-12 that would cause someone not to inherit the Kingdom. However, he was quoting that phrase in order to argue against it, not in order to endorse it. Furthermore, Paul did not have the authority to countermand God by saying that all things are lawful, nor should we follow Paul instead of God even if you think that is what he was saying.

You are correct that in 1 Corinthians 9:21, Paul was not speaking about sinning in order to reach sinners because that would have completely undermined his message to them, and sin is disobedience to God's Law. Rather, he said in a parallel statement that he was not outside the Law of God, but under the Law of Christ, so he equated the Mosaic Law with the Law of Christ.

Regarding the messianic belief ...do you wear the clothes ...blow the Shofar Horn , etc. How much of the law do you follow ?

I do not wear clothes mixed with wool and linen. We are not commanded to blow the shofar though we are commanded to hear the voice of the shofar during the Feast of Trumpets. Even when the Law was first given to Moses, there wasn't a single person who was required to follow every single Law, and not even Jesus followed the laws in regard to giving birth or to having a period. Some laws were only given to govern the conduct of the King, the High Priest, priests, judges, men, women, children, widows, those who are married, those with servants, those with animals, those with crops, those with tzaraat, those living in the land, and for strangers living among them, while others were given for everyone. Furthermore, many of the laws came with conditions under which they should be obeyed, such as the command to keep the Sabbath holy, which should only be obeyed under the condition that it is the 7th day or laws in regard to temple practice, which should only be obeyed under the condition that there is a temple in which to practice them.

So understanding how much of the Law to follow is a matter of careful prayer, study, and leading of the Spirit. However, if we believe the Bible that the Law was given for our own good and that God can be trusted to guide us in how to rightly live, then we will have the attitude of looking for reasons why we have the delight of getting to obey God's instructions rather than the attitude of looking for every excuse under the sun to avoid following God's guidance.
 
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klutedavid

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You mentioned before to someone
you where not sure if the was or not.

28 th to the 7th of month, using a 30
day month would be 9 days .
Breaking the commandments.

[Pentacost] seven 7 day weeks = 49
Counting from A Sabbath, 50 days later
would always fall on a Sunday[ the
first day of the week]
Pentecost is a festival day and we are not concerned with one off festival days.

Where did you get, 'Sunday', from? That is a Papal Roman day and is not the first day.

The first day like the seventh day belongs to the lunisolar calendar.

What throws your calculations out is failing to rest on the new moon day. Rest on the new moon day and everything else will fall into place.

The moon governs the Sabbath and not the Sun, think lunar month!
 
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helmut

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1 Corinthians 16:1
Now concerning the collection for the saints,

Not for the preacher—not for evangelism—but
“the collection for the saints.” The poor saints at
Jerusalem were suffering from drought and famine.
You tell much that is off-topic.

"Not for the preacher" holds for this collectionm, but otherwise Paul speaks of preachers that should be paid ...

They needed, not money, but food. Paul had given similar instruction to couple other churches.
You mean to say that they were not given money to buy food, but were given food first stored, then (weeks later) collected, and then shipped to Caesarea (?), and then sent to Jerusalem ... well, there is not much foof that can be handled that way without getting rotten.

When therefore I have performed this, and have
sealed to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain” (Romans 15:25-28).

The fruit that was being sealed for shipment to
the poor saints at Jerusalem!
Well, "fruit" is figuratively (cf. 2.Cor 9,10-11).

Rom 14 The subject here? Vegetarianism.
it is not about observing any holy days,
or observence of.
Rom 14:5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
This means that it is not about days?
 
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helmut

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If Paul taught against the law (which is not true)
I never said that Paul taught against the law. But he taught that the believer is dead for the law. Not the law has been made void, but the believer.

5. Paul said that we don't nullify the law of God by our faith in Jesus Christ.(Romans 3:31) Do we nullify the law by this faith? By no means! Rather we uphold the law.
Upholding the law includes saying what the law tells about itself: It is a witness against men, no means of salvation.

If you think this is "teaching against the law" you are joining those who accused Paul of forsaking the law.
 
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