What do you think are some reasons certain Christians refuse to read certain parts of the Bible?

Job3315 · Oct 19, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Believers are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace (i.e. Jesus Christ). It is why a person who comes to Jesus for the first time can have an assurance of salvation (Without doing any kind of work). Initial and ultimate salvation is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9). We are not ultimately saved by works of righteousness we have done alone without God's mercy (Titus 3:5). For even if a believer were to stumble into sin, do they get clean by doing another work? No. They get clean by confessing their sins to Jesus (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) and they ask Jesus to help them to overcome their sin (or to forsake it) (Matthew 26:41) (Romans 13:14) (John 15:5). But make no mistake, Scripture is also abundantly clear in that it teaches we are saved by "works of faith" after we are saved by God's grace, too.

My next post to you will be a list of 30 points in Scripture clearly showing that we also need to live holy and or do good works (and not evil works).

Please define "works of faith".

Bible Highlighter · Oct 19, 2019

Job3315 said:
Please define "works of faith".

1 Thessalonians 1:3 and 2 Thessalonians 1:11 says there is a “work of faith.”

John the Baptist told the Pharisees to bring forth fruits befitting of repentance. Repentance is seeking forgiveness with the Lord (or the Sinner’s Prayer), and the fruits of repentance is making good on those words with one’s actions or faithfulness. John the Baptist said that they are to give away an extra coat to the poor if they had it. John said to give the poor meat if they had it. These are obviously works; And John said that the axe is laid to the root of the tree. Meaning, they will be cut down if they are not fruitful for the Lord. Fruits are deeds because a similar phrase from Matthew 3 is used within Acts of the Apostles 26:20.

Anyways, an example of some good works we must do as Christians are:

#1. Preach the gospel.
#2. Help the poor.
#3. Love & feed the brethren.
#4. Love your enemies.
#5. Contend for the faith.
#6. Praise & worship God.
#7. Study to show yourself approved unto God.

If you need verses for these, I am more than happy to provide them.

Job3315 · Oct 19, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
1 Thessalonians 1:3 and 2 Thessalonians 1:11 says there is a “work of faith.”

John the Baptist told the Pharisees to bring forth fruits befitting of repentance. Repentance is seeking forgiveness with the Lord (or the Sinner’s Prayer), and the fruits of repentance is making good on those words with one’s actions or faithfulness. John the Baptist said that they are to give away an extra coat to the poor if they had it. John said to give the poor meat if they had it. These are obviously works; And John said that the axe is laid to the root of the tree. Meaning, they will be cut down if they are not fruitful for the Lord. Fruits are deeds because a similar phrase from Matthew 3 is used within Acts of the Apostles 26:20.

Anyways, an example of some good works we must do as Christians are:

#1. Preach the gospel.
#2. Help the poor.
#3. Love & feed the brethren.
#4. Love your enemies.
#5. Contend for the faith.
#6. Praise & worship God.
#7. Study to show yourself approved unto God.

If you need verses for these, I am more than happy to provide them.

So, you are saying that if we do all of those things, will we keep salvation?

If that's your view, then works keep you saved, not the finished work of Christ in you. My faith in Jesus keeps me saved, but that faith must prove that I believe in Him, the thing is even Jesus said, "Without Me you cannot do anything". Yet, we can do many good things, but He refers to an impact. As matter of fact, do you understand that Paul, even though He did feed the poor He didn't go to a place without the power of the Spirit? So works or faith gor beyond your list.

“And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭2:4-5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Faith in Jesus should bring fruits, but we have to be careful not to think He saved us, now we do good works and not sin to stay saved. If we think like that when we cancel our faith in Jesus.

All I know is that we a masterpiece and God is in the process of cleaning all the lies the enemy told us. If is not in my Fathers heart, then I don't want it in mine and he He told me I am saved, I believe Him and my relationship with Him is based on what He did and He is teaching me now how a daughter of the King lives and thinks in her heart. I never do something expecting a reward, because my reward is Jesus Himself.

SkyWriting · Oct 20, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
What do you think are some reasons certain Christians refuse to read certain parts of the Bible?

Does the Bible speak about this?

Which people, which parts?

Bible Highlighter · Oct 20, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Which people, which parts?

Do you honestly do not know?
Have you never encountered people ignoring or refusing to read parts of the Bible?

SkyWriting · Oct 20, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Do you honestly do not know?
Have you never encountered people ignoring or refusing to read parts of the Bible?

All people refuse or avoid anything that does not
fit conclusions they have already made.

Christians are not different in this than anyone else.
Research studies show this bias against contrary information is human nature.

I was just wondering about your experiences and confirmations of this.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 20, 2019

Job3315 said:
So, you are saying that if we do all of those things, will we keep salvation?

Well, I am glad you asked. Most assume I believe that Sinless Perfectionism = Salvation and this is not the case. For not all sins lead to spiritual death; For example: There is a sin not unto death (1 John 5:17), and faults of character. Psalms 19:12 says, "Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults." I believe these would be faults of character or minor errors that a person might make with people. Example: A person may not be a great listener, and they do not allow others to speak like they should. By not listening to others may come off a little like they do not care (even though they care in their own way or a different way). Paul wanted to go to Jerusalem. The Spirit warned Paul not to go. He was still determined to go because he loved His fellow Jews and wanted them to know the love of Jesus. The Spirit told the brethren that Paul will be imprisoned by his going to Jerusalem. The brethren warned Paul not to go. They were in tears and loved him and begged him not to go. But Paul did not listen. He would not hear them. He did not want to hear it. Fault of character. Hidden fault. Minor error of his character. It is not something that condemned him (See Acts of the Apostles 21, and read this article here by Ray Stedman; Note: There is even a better write up than this one by Bible commentator James Boice here; Please keep in mind I do not share their views on Soteriology, though; I merely agree with their view on what happened with Paul in Acts of the Apostles 21).

You said:
If that's your view, then works keep you saved,

No. It is both "God's grace through faith + works of faith" that keep a believer saved. A belief in Jesus as one's Savior does not stop; Also, if a believer stumbles into committing a serious sin (that leads to spiritual death) on rare occasion, they need to confess of that sin in order to be forgiven of it (See: 1 John 2:1, and 1 John 1:9). For Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

You said:
...not the finished work of Christ in you.

No such statement exists in Scripture. This is what Eternal Security proponents or Non-Eternal Security Belief Alone Proponents have been told as a part of their churches. It is their mantra that does not exist within Scripture.

Actually, the continued imputation of Christ's sacrifice is 1 John 1:7.
Most in the Belief Alone camp ignore in giving me a word for word commentary for this verse;
And those rare few who do give me a commentary end up trying to make the text say something other than it plainly does. Care to take a shot at giving a word for word commentary on 1 John 1:7?

You said:
My faith in Jesus keeps me saved,

Not according to 1 John 1:7, and James 2:24. For faith without works is dead (James 2:17), and in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin, we have to walk in the light (1 John 1:7). For a man is justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

You said:
but that faith must prove that I believe in Him, the thing is even Jesus said, "Without Me you cannot do anything".

Now you are appear to be contradicting yourself, my friend. You say faith does not need works to be saved, and now you are suggesting that it does need to be that way in the sense that your faith must prove that you believe in Him. Either faith without works saves, or it doesn't. You cannot have it both ways. Either faith proves itself by works or it doesn't.

Oh, and yes. My list of verses on Sanctification is in reference to how GOD does the good work through the believer. So yes, I am in 100% agreement that without Jesus, we can do nothing. For it is the Lord who works through the faithful believer. This is told to us in John 15. Philippians 2:13 also says that GOD works in us, as well. In fact, this is the point why most do not understand Ephesians 2:8-10. They do not realize that Ephesians 2:9 is referring to "Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism" and Ephesians 2:10 is referring to God directed works done through the believer. Ephesians 2:9 is the kind of work that a man would boast in himself in doing, and Ephesians 2:10 is the kind of work that we are created unto Christ Jesus to do. So Ephesians 2:8 is saying that we are initially and ultimately saved by GOD's grace through faith in Christ and it is not by Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism; And Ephesians 2:10 says that the works of GOD (in the Sanctification Process) follows one being saved by God's grace through faith in Christ.

Job3315 · Oct 21, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Well, I am glad you asked. Most assume I believe that Sinless Perfectionism = Salvation and this is not the case. For not all sins lead to spiritual death; For example: There is a sin not unto death (1 John 5:17), and faults of character. Psalms 19:12 says, "Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults." I believe these would be faults of character or minor errors that a person might make with people. Example: A person may not be a great listener, and they do not allow others to speak like they should. By not listening to others may come off a little like they do not care (even though they care in their own way or a different way). Paul wanted to go to Jerusalem. The Spirit warned Paul not to go. He was still determined to go because he loved His fellow Jews and wanted them to know the love of Jesus. The Spirit told the brethren that Paul will be imprisoned by his going to Jerusalem. The brethren warned Paul not to go. They were in tears and loved him and begged him not to go. But Paul did not listen. He would not hear them. He did not want to hear it. Fault of character. Hidden fault. Minor error of his character. It is not something that condemned him (See Acts of the Apostles 21, and read this article here by Ray Stedman; Note: There is even a better write up than this one by Bible commentator James Boice here; Please keep in mind I do not share their views on Soteriology, though; I merely agree with their view on what happened with Paul in Acts of the Apostles 21).

No. It is both "God's grace through faith + works of faith" that keep a believer saved. A belief in Jesus as one's Savior does not stop; Also, if a believer stumbles into committing a serious sin (that leads to spiritual death) on rare occasion, they need to confess of that sin in order to be forgiven of it (See: 1 John 2:1, and 1 John 1:9). For Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

No such statement exists in Scripture. This is what Eternal Security proponents or Non-Eternal Security Belief Alone Proponents have been told as a part of their churches. It is their mantra that does not exist within Scripture.

Actually, the continued imputation of Christ's sacrifice is 1 John 1:7.
Most in the Belief Alone camp ignore in giving me a word for word commentary for this verse;
And those rare few who do give me a commentary end up trying to make the text say something other than it plainly does. Care to take a shot at giving a word for word commentary on 1 John 1:7?

Not according to 1 John 1:7, and James 2:24. For faith without works is dead (James 2:17), and in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin, we have to walk in the light (1 John 1:7). For a man is justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

Now you are appear to be contradicting yourself, my friend. You say faith does not need works to be saved, and now you are suggesting that it does need to be that way in the sense that your faith must prove that you believe in Him. Either faith without works saves, or it doesn't. You cannot have it both ways. Either faith proves itself by works or it doesn't.

Oh, and yes. My list of verses on Sanctification is in reference to how GOD does the good work through the believer. So yes, I am in 100% agreement that without Jesus, we can do nothing. For it is the Lord who works through the faithful believer. This is told to us in John 15. Philippians 2:13 also says that GOD works in us, as well. In fact, this is the point why most do not understand Ephesians 2:8-10. They do not realize that Ephesians 2:9 is referring to "Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism" and Ephesians 2:10 is referring to God directed works done through the believer. Ephesians 2:9 is the kind of work that a man would boast in himself in doing, and Ephesians 2:10 is the kind of work that we are created unto Christ Jesus to do. So Ephesians 2:8 is saying that we are initially and ultimately saved by GOD's grace through faith in Christ and it is not by Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism; And Ephesians 2:10 says that the works of GOD (in the Sanctification Process) follows one being saved by God's grace through faith in Christ.

You make the Gospel so complicated.

Believing, abiding and knowing Jesus is what brings fruits and works.

I'll tell you what, I'll continue believing in Jesus and abiding in Him through a relationship that will naturally bring forth fruit and works. I mean, I am already His and nothing can snatch me from His hands. He is my Master, my Father, my friend, my doctor and counselor, my creator and because He lives, I live, because He loved me I am able to love, because of Who He is, I am who I am.

And you keep believing and doing your "works of faith" to keep your salvation. Please remember the "works of faith" are not just feeding the poor and being nice, but healing the blind, the deaf, the lame and the demon possessed too, which I am exercising in Faith everywhere I go because I truly believe as Jesus is, so are we. God loves us the same as Jesus.

Good luck when you present yourself in front of the Father and you present Him with your "works of faith" to keep your salvation. I know whatever I do will never equal what Jesus did for me, and I know everything I do comes from my relationship with Him. Because He told me I could, I did. I don't do anything to obtain or keep salvation. I have Jesus, He is my reward and my song. I just represent my Father as His daughter and ambassador and I learn it through Jesus.

Good luck mate!

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 21, 2019

Emmylouwho said:
So, you actually believe some women existed somewhere that wanted to do their father..

Yes. They even married their father too.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 21, 2019

Job3315 said:
You make the Gospel so complicated.

I believe the gospel is believing in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ on our behalf for salvation (See: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

But I also believe we must obey the gospel, too. For the Bible warns that there is flaming fire of vengeance who do not obey the gospel.

"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" (2 Thessalonians 1:8).

What is obeying the gospel? Obeying the gospel can be found in Romans 6.

3 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Romans 6:3-7).

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Galatians 5:24).

I believe that all of us believers must heed this warning in Proverbs 22 (Which includes myself).

"A prudent man foresees evil and hides himself, But the simple pass on and are punished." (Proverbs 22:3).

You said:
Believing, abiding and knowing Jesus is what brings fruits and works.

We can have an assurance in knowing the Lord if we find that we are keeping His commandments (See: 1 John 2:3). Jesus said, "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love." (John 15:10). John says that the person who says they know the Lord and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4).

You said:
I'll tell you what, I'll continue believing in Jesus and abiding in Him through a relationship that will naturally bring forth fruit and works.

But just believing in Jesus is not enough. For even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19). We have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

You said:
I mean, I am already His and nothing can snatch me from His hands.

The context of John 10:28, is verse 27, and it lays forth the condition in being the kind of sheep that cannot be plucked or snatched out of His hand.

27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." (John 10:27-28).

For the kind of sheep that cannot be plucked out of His hand in verse 28 are the sheeps that FOLLOW Jesus (verse 27). These are not lazy sheep or sheep who do not follow Jesus by saying that His commands are optional as a part of the faith or that they are impossible to keep.

You said:
He is my Master, my Father, my friend, my doctor and counselor, my creator and because He lives, I live, because He loved me I am able to love, because of Who He is, I am who I am.

46 "While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." (Matthew 12:46-50).

You said:
And you keep believing and doing your "works of faith" to keep your salvation.

I only believe that works of faith play a part in the salvation process because that is what the Bible plainly teaches. I would not believe it, if the Bible did not teach it. But it clearly does (See again Post #144 for 30 points in Scripture that clearly show that we need works as a part of the salvation process). If you disagree that these verses teach such a thing, then take at least 5 of them and explain how they work from your perspective.

You said:
Please remember the "works of faith" are not just feeding the poor and being nice, but healing the blind, the deaf, the lame and the demon possessed too,

Not all commands are tied with spiritual death if one were to break them in the New Testament or New Covenant. There is no warning that says that if we do not operate by the miracles of the spiritual gifts we are not saved. But there are warnings that if a believer does not help the poor, everlasting punishment is the result (See Matthew 25:31-46 cf. with Luke 10:25-37). We also have to be nice, too. For the Bible says that we are to follow after peace, .... of which without no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). Besides, I believe by a 99% chance that the miraculous gifts have ceased and that they were only for the early church apostles. See this thread here:

Cessationism: Tongues, Prophecy, and the Gift of Miracles Have Ceased.

You said:
which I am exercising in Faith everywhere I go because I truly believe as Jesus is, so are we. God loves us the same as Jesus.

Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
Paul said if any man loves not the Lord, let him be accursed (1 Corinthians 16:22).
Jesus said not everyone who says unto me, "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he that does the will of the Father (See: Matthew 7:21). The will of GOD (or the will of the Father) is our sanctification or to be holy (See: 1 Thessalonians 4:3) (KJV - "sanctification") (NLT - "to be holy").

You said:
Good luck when you present yourself in front of the Father and you present Him with your "works of faith" to keep your salvation.

The resurrection of life is not associated with the words "belief alone" but is is associated with "they that have done good."

"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:29).

Jesus said to certain believers who did wonderful works in his name to depart from Him because they also worked sin or iniquity (See: Matthew 7:23). For Jesus relates the person who does not do what He says with that of a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm had come, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).

You said:
I know whatever I do will never equal what Jesus did for me,

Again, 1 John 1:7 says that if we walk in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. It does not say he that believes only.

You said:
and I know everything I do comes from my relationship with Him. Because He told me I could, I did. I don't do anything to obtain or keep salvation.

Then why are we told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling? (See again: Philippians 2:12).
Why do you think James says the following words? "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." (See: James 1:12).

You said:
I have Jesus, He is my reward and my song. I just represent my Father as His daughter and ambassador and I learn it through Jesus.

To learn from Jesus is to follow Him. We are to deny ourselves, pick up our cross, and follow Him. This is a part of eternal life because Jesus said he that will seek to save his life shall lose it, and he that will lose his life for my sake, will save it (Matthew 16:24-25).

You said:
Good luck mate!

I do not believe in luck, but thanks for the kind regards.
Anyways, may all manner of good things be upon you in Jesus Christ, friend;
And may you please be well (even if we disagree strongly on the topic of salvation).

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 21, 2019

Emmylouwho said:
So if you are judged by your “fruit”, you are being judged by your “teachings”?

Over the decades watching people talk a lot about 'fruit', usually unreliable feelings and emotions,
someone else noted
in a footnote in a Bible about "fruit" in some verse,
that it means teachings, which is testable, verifiable, "doable"(teachings CAN BE TESTED/ VERIFIED),
and is in complete HARMONY with all Scripture pertinent to this.

There is also, quite openly, some fruit that is not like teachings - but /and also not so verifiable or testable.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 21, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Which people, which parts?

Bible Highlighter said:
Do you honestly do not know?
Have you never encountered people ignoring or refusing to read parts of the Bible?

Yes, case in point >
Some people refuse to believe what Yahuweh Says throughout His Word, Plan and Purpose regarding salvation from sin and from the penalty of sin,
as written,
because their deeds(lives) are darkness, and they hate the light. i.e. they don't want their sins brought out into the LIGHT (in JESUS) for all to see and to know, nor their sinfulness (propensity to sin and to approve of sin). .....

Job3315 · Oct 21, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
I believe the gospel is believing in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ on our behalf for salvation (See: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

But I also believe we must obey the gospel, too. For the Bible warns that there is flaming fire of vengeance who do not obey the gospel.

"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" (2 Thessalonians 1:8).

What is obeying the gospel? Obeying the gospel can be found in Romans 6.

3 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Romans 6:3-7).

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Galatians 5:24).

I believe that all of us believers must heed this warning in Proverbs 22 (Which includes myself).

"A prudent man foresees evil and hides himself, But the simple pass on and are punished." (Proverbs 22:3).

We can have an assurance in knowing the Lord if we find that we are keeping His commandments (See: 1 John 2:3). Jesus said, "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love." (John 15:10). John says that the person who says they know the Lord and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4).

But just believing in Jesus is not enough. For even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19). We have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

The context of John 10:28, is verse 27, and it lays forth the condition in being the kind of sheep that cannot be plucked or snatched out of His hand.

27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." (John 10:27-28).

For the kind of sheep that cannot be plucked out of His hand in verse 28 are the sheeps that FOLLOW Jesus (verse 27). These are not lazy sheep or sheep who do not follow Jesus by saying that His commands are optional as a part of the faith or that they are impossible to keep.

46 "While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." (Matthew 12:46-50).

I only believe that works of faith play a part in the salvation process because that is what the Bible plainly teaches. I would not believe it, if the Bible did not teach it. But it clearly does (See again Post #144 for 30 points in Scripture that clearly show that we need works as a part of the salvation process). If you disagree that these verses teach such a thing, then take at least 5 of them and explain how they work from your perspective.

Not all commands are tied with spiritual death if one were to break them in the New Testament or New Covenant. There is no warning that says that if we do not operate by the miracles of the spiritual gifts we are not saved. But there are warnings that if a believer does not help the poor, everlasting punishment is the result (See Matthew 25:31-46 cf. with Luke 10:25-37). We also have to be nice, too. For the Bible says that we are to follow after peace, .... of which without no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). Besides, I believe by a 99% chance that the miraculous gifts have ceased and that they were only for the early church apostles. See this thread here:

Cessationism: Tongues, Prophecy, and the Gift of Miracles Have Ceased.

Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
Paul said if any man loves not the Lord, let him be accursed (1 Corinthians 16:22).
Jesus said not everyone who says unto me, "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he that does the will of the Father (See: Matthew 7:21). The will of GOD (or the will of the Father) is our sanctification or to be holy (See: 1 Thessalonians 4:3) (KJV - "sanctification") (NLT - "to be holy").

The resurrection of life is not associated with the words "belief alone" but is is associated with "they that have done good."

"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:29).

Jesus said to certain believers who did wonderful works in his name to depart from Him because they also worked sin or iniquity (See: Matthew 7:23). For Jesus relates the person who does not do what He says with that of a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm had come, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).

Again, 1 John 1:7 says that if we walk in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. It does not say he that believes only.

Then why are we told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling? (See again: Philippians 2:12).
Why do you think James says the following words? "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." (See: James 1:12).

To learn from Jesus is to follow Him. We are to deny ourselves, pick up our cross, and follow Him. This is a part of eternal life because Jesus said he that will seek to save his life shall lose it, and he that will lose his life for my sake, will save it (Matthew 16:24-25).

I do not believe in luck, but thanks for the kind regards.
Anyways, may all manner of good things be upon you in Jesus Christ, friend;
And may you please be well (even if we disagree strongly on the topic of salvation).

I think you are missing the whole point of the Cross. God wants us to be an expression of His love, just like He expressed love through Jesus. A person who worries about works can't rest in what Jesus did because he will be trying to keep salvation through works of faith.

You quoted where Jesus said, Not everyone who says 'Lord, Lord, didn't we do this in your name' and Jesus replied, "I never knew you". Those people knew how to use Jesus name to do miracles, but Jesus never knew them, because they were doing works, not having a relationship with Him. They were doing Christian work without Jesus. Christianity without Jesus in the center is demonic in nature. The Pharisees missed what God wanted them to do, "mercy, not sacrifice". Doing works of faith to keep your salvation is sacrifice. I am not telling I don't feed the poor or do good, I just don't do it to keep salvation, I do it because I love others and I love my Father. I never ever do something thinking it is "filling my "works of faith or good works" basket. Anyway, it all ends in love; Love God your God and love your neighbor as yourself. There's no law in that, just love.

SkyWriting · Oct 21, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Yes, case in point >
Some people refuse to believe what Yahuweh Says throughout His Word, Plan and Purpose regarding salvation from sin and from the penalty of sin,
as written,
because their deeds(lives) are darkness, and they hate the light. i.e. they don't want their sins brought out into the LIGHT (in JESUS) for all to see and to know, nor their sinfulness (propensity to sin and to approve of sin). .....

Very likely true.
Can we choose which people?

Bible Highlighter · Oct 21, 2019

Job3315 said:
I think you are missing the whole point of the Cross. God wants us to be an expression of His love, just like He expressed love through Jesus. A person who worries about works can't rest in what Jesus did because he will be trying to keep salvation through works of faith.

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema [accursed] Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

Supplemental verse (that ties in with 1 Corinthians 16:22):
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

Conclusion: A believer needs to keep the commandments in order to love Jesus; And not loving Jesus would mean not keeping His commandments, which would mean that they are accursed. Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all those who obey Him. For GOD has chosen us to salvation via by:

(a) A belief of the truth (God's grace through faith), and
(b) Sanctification of the Spirit (Holy living by the working of God).

You said:
You quoted where Jesus said, Not everyone who says 'Lord, Lord, didn't we do this in your name' and Jesus replied, "I never knew you". Those people knew how to use Jesus name to do miracles, but Jesus never knew them, because they were doing works, not having a relationship with Him. They were doing Christian work without Jesus. Christianity without Jesus in the center is demonic in nature.

Again, what is the way the Bible teaches how we know Jesus (i.e. to have a relationship with Him)?

1 John 2:3 says that we can have an assurance in knowing the Lord if we find that we are keeping His commandments. The person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them (See: 1 John 2:4). Jesus said
"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 15:10).

You said:
The Pharisees missed what God wanted them to do, "mercy, not sacrifice". Doing works of faith to keep your salvation is sacrifice.

Not exactly. Jesus said that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy (Matthew 23:23) (Luke 11:42). The Lord desired the Pharisees to show mercy to others more than just offering animal sacrifices, and he wanted them to know of Him by His Word more than offering burnt offerings. They were just going through the motions in making animal sacrifices, but they did not have the love of GOD and or the knowledge of the things of GOD that was supposed to change their heart. This did not mean that they were not to have works of faith. For faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

You said:
I am not telling I don't feed the poor or do good, I just don't do it to keep salvation, I do it because I love others and I love my Father. I never ever do something thinking it is "filling my "works of faith or good works" basket.

But the Bible teaches that these things are a part of salvation. If one does not believe that the Bible teaches this, then it is a lack of faith in what the Bible (or God's Word) says. Again, Matthew 25:31-46, and Luke 10:25-37 teach that helping the poor is a part of eternal life. John 5:29 says that they that have done good are a part of the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil are a part of the resurrection of damnation. Do you believe in doing good is a part of the resurrection of life as John 5:29 says?

You said:
Anyway, it all ends in love; Love God your God and love your neighbor as yourself. There's no law in that, just love.

Actually, to love God and love your neighbor are the two greatest commandments or laws (Matthew 22:36-39). We also cannot define how to love in regards to these commands, either. People have all kinds of funny ideas of what they think love is. Someone might think that they must hug trees as a part of glorifying GOD's creation (in order to love GOD). Others may want to draw European pictures of Jesus with hearts as a part of loving GOD and others. But that would not be the biblical way of loving GOD and your neighbor. In fact, even believing in Jesus is a commandment or Law (See: 1 John 3:23).

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 22, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Very likely true.
Can we choose which people?

Yahweh has Revealed, in His Good Pleasure, which people, daily, to His people. The people of the world cannot observe this, comprehend this, or even know this. It is impossible for the carnal people to comprehend anything true / spiritual.

SkyWriting · Oct 22, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Yahweh has Revealed, in His Good Pleasure, which people, daily, to His people. The people of the world cannot observe this, comprehend this, or even know this. It is impossible for the carnal people to comprehend anything true / spiritual.

You don't seem to meet the qualifications to judge.

Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Luke 6:37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

John 7:24
Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

James 4:11-12
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

James 4:12
There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Romans 2:1-3
Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

Ephesians 4:29
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

Romans 14:1-13
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ...

John 8:7
And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

James 1:26 ESV / 480 helpful votes
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.

Proverbs 31:9 ESV / 431 helpful votes
Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Luke 6:31 ESV / 423 helpful votes
And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

Romans 12:16-19
Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

Galatians 5:14
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

1 Corinthians 13:1-8
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; ...

Romans 14:1
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.

1 Corinthians 5:12-13
For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

Leviticus 19:15
“You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor.

1 Peter 4:8-9
Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins. Show hospitality to one another without grumbling.

James 4:11
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.

Isaiah 11:3
And his delight shall be in the fear of the Lord. He shall not judge by what his eyes see, or decide disputes by what his ears hear,

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 23, 2019

SkyWriting said:
You don't seem to meet the qualifications to judge.

Yahuweh's Word is what Judges.

And we all , including you, are judged by our own/ your own statements/words.

This is simple, when your words directly oppose Scripture (Yahuweh's Word is what Judges) .

SkyWriting · Oct 24, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Yahuweh's Word is what Judges.

And we all , including you, are judged by our own/ your own statements/words.

This is simple, when your words directly oppose Scripture (Yahuweh's Word is what Judges) .

That's why I'm not worried about your opinions or fake judgments.

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

Jeremiah 17:10
“I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

StillGods · Oct 24, 2019

What do you think are some reasons certain Christians refuse to read certain parts of the Bible?

cos its challenging to ones life, if dont read it then dont have to be challenged by it to change.

What do you think are some reasons certain Christians refuse to read certain parts of the Bible?

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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The Librarian

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

The Librarian

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Well-Known Member

The Librarian

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

The Librarian

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

The Librarian

Well-Known Member

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