THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

nolidad · Oct 21, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Do you think Paul was confused when he used the word "remnant", instead of "all", in Romans 9:27?

Are you attempting to change the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, into the word "then", which is an adverb of timing, in Romans 11:26? This is a common tactic of Dispensationalists. They ignore the connection between Romans 11:23, and Romans 11:26.
I have heard both John MacArthur and John Hagee say...

"And then all Israel will be saved."

They have corrupted God's Word to make their Two Peoples of God doctrine work.
Are you trying to do the same thing?

Is there a part of the New Covenant which has not yet been fulfilled?
What were Christ's last three words on the cross?

"It is finished." John 19:30

.

No he was not mistaken just as he was not mistaken when He said houtos in Romans 11 which all lexicons and greek scholars I read say8 the same thing as is found here:

The KJV translates Strong's G3779 in the following manner: so (164x), thus (17x), even so (9x), on this wise (6x), likewise (4x), after this manner (3x), miscellaneous (10x).
Outline of Biblical Usage G3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows):—after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like(-wise), no more, on this fashion(-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what.

Well I cannot speak for all Dispensationalists but Chafer, Pentecost, Fruchtenbaum, Eddersheim Walvoord, Vine et. al. recognize that "then" is synonymous with huotos which simply says that after the full number of gentiles are come in- then all Israel will be saved! Your argument is a red herring.

It is obvious you are oblivious why Jesus declared tetelestai!

It was not to fulfill the New Covenant God made with the House of Israel and te House of Judah as god said the covenant was made to- but Jesus declared that (which by the way means paid or ended)
because at that moment in time, He had paid for all of mankinds sins! The blood was the mechanism that validated the new covenant but it is not the fulfilment of the New Covenant .

And no we are not corrupting the Word of God to make your phony two people of God work- we are restoring the Word of God from those who corrupted it ini the past and have deceived untold millions since the time of Augustine to get people to see the truth!

keras · Oct 21, 2019

nolidad said:
Well you can look from a human perspective if you wish, but I will leave god to decide who is a physical Jew whom He will fulfill the New Covenant He made with the house of Israel and Judah with! He knows better than any rabbi!

Buyt if you wish to know who is a Jew? He is in the lineage of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob! that is the formula for Jewishness.

Yes, just as Isaiah 51:1-2 says: All who follow after righteousness.....consider Abraham as your father....
And Galatians 3:26-29 Thru faith, you are sons of God....we are the issue of Abraham, his heirs by our faith, as he demonstrated.

So the idea that the Jews, or only actual descendants of Jacob, are the sole inheritors, is pure nonsense.

claninja · Oct 21, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
It would not falsify the words of Christ. Granted that it might be a central place of worship in Israel, it would not be so for the world at large.

Jesus states "a time is coming" in regards to worship ceasing in Jerusalem at the temple. Dispensationalism states "a time is coming" when worship will occur in Jerusalem at the 3rd temple.

2 polar opposite statements.

Contenders Edge said:
That a temple is present according to Revelation chapter 11 clearly implies that there will be one when the other events of that chapter take place as well. 66 to 70 A.D. is a longer time span than forty-two months and the Gentiles had control of Jerusalem for much longer than 42 months. They ha control of and occupied it even before 70 A.D.

The Jewish Roman war started in April of 66 and led to the destruction of the temple in August of 70ad. Every 2-3 years, the Jewish calendar has an extra 13th month. Thus it would be 42 months from April 66ad to August 70ad.

Jesus prophesied that Jerusalem, of the 1st century, would be trampled by the gentiles

Luke 21:24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

John's vision tells us Jerusalem would be trampled for 42 months.

Revelation 11:2 do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the gentiles, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

Contenders Edge said:
That is only possible when the New Testament points back to prophecies of the Old Testament.

Revelation 20-21 points back to Ezekiel 40-48.

Contenders Edge said:
The New Jerusalem does not have a river flowing from a temple since there is no temple there. But there is a throne from which it flows.

Incorrect, the new Jerusalem does have a river flowing from the temple.

The river flows from the throne of God and the lamb, which is the temple.

Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb.

Revelation 22:1 Then the angela showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb

Contenders Edge said:
The river flowing out of the Temple in Ezekiel's vision has several trees growing along its banks. The river flowing out of the New Jerusalem only has one tree that grows on both sides of the river.

and yet BOTH trees from Ezekiel and Revelation serve the same purpose: to produce fruit each month and have leaves for healing the nations.

Parables are not exact copies. Parables are earthly stories with heavenly meanings.

Contenders Edge said:
Ezekiel's Temple, though much larger than the other Temples before it, is still significantly smaller than the New Jerusalem. And once again, anything symbolic has an interpretation attached to it. If it does not have an interpretation attached to it, then it cannot be considered symbolic.

I disagree.

Contenders Edge said:
Jesus and the Apostles used the Old Testament scriptures to help their audiences and followers to understand the New Testament which is why the New Testament points back to the Old Testament to validate itself. Without the Old Testament scriptures, we would never have the full understanding of the New Testament that we are able to have today.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the law, psalms, and prophets.

Contenders Edge said:
What NT scripture refutes Ezekiel's vision since the Temple is the place from which God will be physically dwelling among men and since Christ is God, what reason is there to assume that He will not be ruling from a Temple as God and King when He brings His rule to earth?

Who said NT scripture refutes Ezekiel's vision. I would argue NT scripture shows the fulfillment of Ezekiel's symbolic vision.

jgr · Oct 21, 2019

nolidad said:
Well you can look from a human perspective if you wish, but I will leave god to decide who is a physical Jew whom He will fulfill the New Covenant He made with the house of Israel and Judah with! He knows better than any rabbi!

Buyt if you wish to know who is a Jew? He is in the lineage of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob! that is the formula for Jewishness.

You didn't answer the question.

You've said you support Israel.

But if only God knows who Israel is, then you don't know.

How can you support Israel if you don't know who Israel is?

How does God identify His True Israel?

1. By their physical DNA
2. By their religion
3. By their culture
4. By their spiritual DNA: Faith and obedience in and to His Son

nolidad · Oct 22, 2019

keras said:
Yes, just as Isaiah 51:1-2 says: All who follow after righteousness.....consider Abraham as your father....
And Galatians 3:26-29 Thru faith, you are sons of God....we are the issue of Abraham, his heirs by our faith, as he demonstrated.

So the idea that the Jews, or only actual descendants of Jacob, are the sole inheritors, is pure nonsense.

Well as you do not understand what is being said it is no wonder you reject it.

But Jeremiah was inspired by god to make the new covenant sealed by the blood of Jesus and has yet to go into full effect yewt. And that Covenant was made with the houses of Israel and Judah. In order to make that the church people have to redefine plain language!

God promised to Abraham that all nations would be blessed through Him- and we are! We are the offspring of Abraham through faith for that! As god said in Genesis!

But that still doesn't negate the promises made to the physical offspring that will be given to them!
What so many here forget is that even though Israel broke the Mosaic (old ) covenant- it doesn't negate all the promises God made while that covenant was in force!

Let me name but a few:

1. If Israel disobeyed, they would be scattered to teh four corners of the earth! Done!
2. But in the latter days God would regather Israel back to their land in unbelief to prepare them to recieve Jesus! In process!
3. All Israel at one point in time will be saved by receiving Jesus as Messiah! Not all Jews who ever lived, but those Jews alive three days before Jesus physically returns! (Remember Jesus told Israel they would not see HIm again UNTIL not unless they say Blessed...)
4. Jesus reconfirmed the kingdom in Acts before He left!

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 22, 2019

nolidad said:
Well you can look from a human perspective if you wish, but I will leave god to decide who is a physical Jew whom He will fulfill the New Covenant He made with the house of Israel and Judah with! He knows better than any rabbi!

Buyt if you wish to know who is a Jew? He is in the lineage of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob! that is the formula for Jewishness.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and Moses were not Jews, tho they were Hebrews.

"Jews" weren't around until the birth of Judah.....Judah was joined by Benjamin and Levi to form the southern kingdom of Judah, headquartered in Jerusalem, Judea as they are today.

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

2Ki 25:25
But it happened in the seventh month that Ishmael the son of Nethaniah, the son of Elishama, of the royal family, came with ten men and struck and killed Gedaliah, the Jews, as well as the Chaldeans who were with him at Mizpah.
Est 2:5
In Shushan the citadel there was a certain Jew whose name was Mordecai the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite.
==========================
Exo 33:1
Then the LORD said to Moses, “Depart and go up from here, you and the people whom you have brought out of the land of Egypt, to the land of which I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, saying, ‘To your descendants I will give it.'

Mar 12:26
“But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob' ?

Luk 16:29
“Abraham said to him, ‘They[OC Judaism] have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.'

Luk 20:37
“But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.'

Act 7:32
“saying, ‘I am the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.'[fn] And Moses trembled and dared not look.
=======================
Abraham, Judah and Moses are mentioned in this Covenatle parable/sto

Jer 17:1
“The sin of Judah is written with a pen of iron; With the point of a diamond it is engraved
On the tablet of their heart, And on the horns of your altars,

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luk 16:29

“Abraham[NC Faith/Life/Spirit] said to him, ‘They[OC Judaism/Law/Death] have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.'

If the Pharisees and scribes understood Yeshua's prophetic parable, it must have astonished and infuriated them. How could the Jews become alienated from God while the elect Gentiles became the "seed of Abraham"? The implication that the House of Judah and those called from the Gentile nations were to change places would have been almost impossible for the Pharisees and scribes to believe.

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity.
Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35).
He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.
This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

claninja · Oct 22, 2019

Duplicate

keras · Oct 22, 2019

nolidad said:
Well as you do not understand what is being said it is no wonder you reject it.

But Jeremiah was inspired by god to make the new covenant sealed by the blood of Jesus and has yet to go into full effect yewt. And that Covenant was made with the houses of Israel and Judah. In order to make that the church people have to redefine plain language!

God promised to Abraham that all nations would be blessed through Him- and we are! We are the offspring of Abraham through faith for that! As god said in Genesis!

But that still doesn't negate the promises made to the physical offspring that will be given to them!
What so many here forget is that even though Israel broke the Mosaic (old ) covenant- it doesn't negate all the promises God made while that covenant was in force!

Let me name but a few:

1. If Israel disobeyed, they would be scattered to teh four corners of the earth! Done!
2. But in the latter days God would regather Israel back to their land in unbelief to prepare them to recieve Jesus! In process!
3. All Israel at one point in time will be saved by receiving Jesus as Messiah! Not all Jews who ever lived, but those Jews alive three days before Jesus physically returns! (Remember Jesus told Israel they would not see HIm again UNTIL not unless they say Blessed...)
4. Jesus reconfirmed the kingdom in Acts before He left!

Where you go wrong, is in thinking that those who call themselves Jews, are the only Israel.
Ancient Israel was scattered among the nations and they are still there today. Jesus came to save them and He was successful! He knew the House of Judah would reject Him and they have had nearly 2000 years to accept their Messiah, but they haven't and now face Judgment and punishment. Only a remnant will survive.
It is we Christians who are the Israelites of God. If you believe otherwise, then you have been deceived.

Contenders Edge · Oct 23, 2019

nolidad said:
This covenant has been confirmed by the shed blood of Messiah, but it has not gone into effect yet! It is for the whole house of Israel and Judah (not to nay gentiles for we were not part of teh old covenant)

Israel and Judah are in teh stuble and blindness phase still and have not gone to the restoration phase which is the fulfilment of the New Covenant as written to Israel and Judah. We must remembver we as gentiles are partakers and grafted on -but we are not taker overs of the covenant. It still belongs to all of Israel~!

The New Covenant is a covenant of redemption. It was put fully into effect after Christ had died and rose again from the grave. If that were not so, then how can anyone, Jew or Gentile be sure of their salvation? You make it sound as if our salvation will not be made a sure thing until Israel has finally repented of her sins and embraced Christ, which of course they will.

The foretold salvation of the Jews should rather be called a result of the New Covenant fulfillment rather than an unfinished element because the New Covenant makes possible the full restoration of the Jews beginning with the spiritual transformation that they will receive in Christ that they did not receive under the Old Covenant.

It needs to be noted that when the giving of the law had taken place, any Gentiles living among the people of Israel became just as much a part of that covenant as they were and Gentiles would be adopted into the Old Covenant periodically by becoming proselytes. The most notable examples are Rahab and Ruth.

But to say that the New Covenant has not been completely fulfilled may be perceived as throwing into question the sufficiency of the redemptive done by the death of Christ on the cross and His resurrection.

The New Covenant belongs just as much to us as it does for Israel because it was destined to be for all people (Jn. 3:16) and even if there are some who say that we have superseded Israel, I am not at all saying that. I know very well that we are partakers with believing Jews in the New Covenant.

They are the children of promise and we are children by adoption.

nolidad · Oct 23, 2019

jgr said:
You didn't answer the question.

You've said you support Israel.

But if only God knows who Israel is, then you don't know.

How can you support Israel if you don't know who Israel is?

How does God identify His True Israel?

1. By their physical DNA
2. By their religion
3. By their culture
4. By their spiritual DNA: Faith and obedience in and to His Son

I support the people coming back to their native land that was covenanted to them by God! And their scattering and return was prophesied by God!

As to you four points. Are you implying God doesn't know what to do or who is who? YOu strain at these little gnats but are willing to accept huge camels. I do not worry whether all that return are true Jews or not- those are things best left in the hands of Almighty omniscient God!

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 23, 2019

nolidad said: ↑ Why would God speak in such specific time frames throughout this prophecy...........?

BABerean2 said: ↑ Once again, you are ignoring the same concept found below in the 1599 Geneva Bible, in an attempt to make Dr. Kelly Varner out to be a lone fool.

nolidad said:
Well I don't care about commentaries in Bibles. You will find those that agree with allegorical interpretation and I will find mine that AGREE WITH LITERAL, HISTORICAL, GRAMMATICAL INTERPRETATION! And in the 17th century most of teh church was still inteh throes of allegorism as the main tool to understand SCripture going back to Augustine.
Close is good for horseshoes but not for Biblical prophesy!

BABerean2 said:
I have shown that Daniel 9:24 is fulfilled in Acts of the Apostles 10:38, and Hebrews 10:16-18. What more is needed to show that the angel Gabriel was referring to the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27?

Your attempts to ignore the fact that Christ fulfilled the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, reveals the error of your Two Peoples of God doctrine.

What does a Hebrew scholar say below about the passage?

nolidad said:
Would you like me to get my Hebrew Scholars who believe in a literal interpretation of SCripture to rebut your Hebrew Scholar?
The only problem with your Acts 10 verse?
A normal, usual grammatical and literal reading of Daniel 9:24 tells the world that it is the Jewish people who have to anoint the Most Holy which in Jewish thought, has always referred to the holy of holies. But let us assume for a minute that God knowing this decided to have it refer to the Messiah just here. It is for the Jew to anoint the most holy not God!

Daniel 9:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Let us remove the list of things and do just the one.

Seventy weeks are determined upon your people and upon Jerusalem to anoint the most holy. When did the Jews anoint the most holy? It is not determined upon god to anoint teh most holy but upon Daniels people the Jews!

Your problem with making Daniel 9:27 fulfilled by 34AD?

Daniel 9:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

You and your preachers declare that the baptism of Jesus is the start of the seventieth week. And 34 AD is the end of the 70th week of Daniel! and that the seven year period fulfills the new covenant.

1. When did Jesus stop the sacrifices and burnt offerings to end? Not their efficacy which is not described but their physical event from stopping which is written (unless of course God said one thing normally but meant another thing secretly) He had to do this on 30 AD according to you and your preachers!

2. By 34 AD when did Jesus for the spreading of detestable things and idols to the wings of the temple, make the temple desolate??

NOw as for the new covenant:

First let me say I agree that the blood of Jesus is the basis of the New Covenant and His death is a partial fulfilment of the New covenant. But like all other covenants God made with man in the bible- not all parts of the covenant go into effect all at once!

Heb. 10:
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Jeremiah 31:31-37 King James Version (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Once again , a normal, usual, grammatical reading of Jeremiah without allegorizing it shows the following facts.

1. the covenant is made with ALL Israel and not just the remnant.

2. This will go into effect "after those days" which you and yoru preachers declare was 34 AD

So show that Israel had Gods law put into their heart God will be Israels God and Israel will be Gods people!

In verse 34: You and your preachers are declaring that their is no longer a need for evangelism to jews- For all the house of Israel and Judah shall know the Lord from the least to the greatest ( a Jewish euphemism meaning everybody), so you and your preachers must assume all Jews are saved since 34 AD-- For ALL, I repeat< ALL from the least to the greatest of the house of Israel and Judah will know the Lord! Even you and your preachers are not silly enough to believe this has occurred yet! Unless of course you allegorize the passage and cause it to mean things that are not written there.

Contenders Edge said:
What remains of the New Covenant that is yet to be fulfilled that was not fulfilled on the cross and by the resurrection of our Lord? What has yet to happen is for the Jews to finally embrace the New Covenant. God has done His part through Christ to establish the New Covenant. Our part is to receive it by receiving Christ.

nolidad said:
You are correct.
There is a generation of Israel to come who will each and every single one get saved by receiving Christ and cause Jesus to return!
Remember Jesus' return is based upon Israel saying "Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord."

jgr said:
And God's selection criterion for the "generation of Israel to come who will each and every single one get saved" is Jewish DNA, right?
How many molecules? Is one enough?

nolidad said:
Why Don't you bring your sarcastic question to God who made the promise! God won't have a problem knowing the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob!

Oh but wait! you are one who believes the church is now Israel! So you believe this is the church:

7 What then? Israel ( church)hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, (the church)

So I think on a human level- you have a bigger issue than whether or not one molecule is enough!

jgr said:
Apparently your rabbinic brethren are also demanding to know what you believe only God knows.
Do they have the right?

nolidad said:
Well you can look from a human perspective if you wish, but I will leave god to decide who is a physical Jew whom He will fulfill the New Covenant He made with the house of Israel and Judah with! He knows better than any rabbi!

Buyt if you wish to know who is a Jew? He is in the lineage of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob! that is the formula for Jewishness.

jgr said: ↑ You didn't answer the question.
You've said you support Israel.
But if only God knows who Israel is, then you don't know.
How can you support Israel if you don't know who Israel is?
How does God identify His True Israel?
1. By their physical DNA
2. By their religion
3. By their culture
4. By their spiritual DNA: Faith and obedience in and to His Son

nolidad said:
I support the people coming back to their native land that was covenanted to them by God! And their scattering and return was prophesied by God!
As to you four points. Are you implying God doesn't know what to do or who is who? YOu strain at these little gnats but are willing to accept huge camels. I do not worry whether all that return are true Jews or not- those are things best left in the hands of Almighty omniscient God!

nolidad............they have already come back and continue to come back, sans a Temple and Sanctuary! Please take off your zionist dispensationalist futurist blinders...........

Is land restoration a part of the new covenant?

claninja said:
The old covenant was an agreement between the nation of Israel and God: If Israel obeyed the laws of Moses, then God would bless (Deuteronomy 28:1-14). If Israel did not obey the laws of Moses, then God would curse (Deuteronomy 28:15-68). And if after the blessings and curses were poured that Israel returned to the Lord, he would restore them from captivity and back to the land of Israel (Deuteronomy 30:1-5). Thus, the Promises and Curses of the Law of Moses were CONDITIONAL upon the nation Israel's obedience.

As we can see in scripture:

-Israel was blessed according to the law of Moses (1 kings 8:56)
-Israel was cursed according to the law of Moses (Daniel 9:13)
-Israel was restored to the land after Babylonian exile (Jeremiah 29:10-14, Psalm 85:1, 2 Chronicles 36:21-23).
-Christ was born, in the flesh, under the law, in the land after Israel had been restored (Galatians 4:4, Luke 2:1-7)

The law of Moses was added AFTER the promises were made to Abraham, so as not to annul them (Galatians 3:17). The Laws of Moses were added because of sin (Galatians 3:19) and to give knowledge of sin (Romans 7:7). The Law of Moses was a guardian (Galatians 3:24).

The Law was temporary. It was only to be until the time of the coming of Christ in the flesh, until the time of reformation (Galatians 3:19, Galatians 3:24, Hebrews 9:10).

And So when Christ came in flesh, He did not abolish the Law, but brought it to its completion (Matthew 5:17, Luke 24:44), for He is the reality of the shadow (Colossians 2:17, Hebrews 10:1). And by its completion in Christ, the righteous standards of the Law are now fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4), for Christ is the yes to all the promises of God (2 Corinthians 1:20).

What was made obsolete by the work of Christ, was the CONDITIONAL old covenant agreement, which was superseded by the new covenant (Hebrews 8:13) and its BETTER promises (Hebrews 8:6) due to a fault in the old covenant. Not a fault on the part of God or the righteous standards of the laws themselves, but in the fault of the people who could not keep their end of the agreement (Hebrews 8:7).

And some of the Better promises of the new covenant include:
- the forgiveness of sin (Ephesians 1:7)
- reconciliation with God (colossians 1:22)
- eternal life (John 3:16)
- fruit of the Spirit (galatians 5:22)
- inheritance in the kingdom (matthew 25:35, Hebrews 12:28)
- resurrection from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:54)
- the imputed righteous standards of God through Christ (romans 8:4)

So, as land restoration was already fulfilled following the Babylonian exile, and the old covenant was made obsolete and superseded by the new covenant with its better promises, IS LAND RESTORATION A PART OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND IF SO WHAT NEW TESTAMENT VERSES CLEARLY AND EXPLICITLY SUPPORT THIS?

Please follow forum policy when providing answers:

"When you disagree with someone's position, you should post evidence and supporting statements for your position. This policy, sometimes referred to as "X means Y because of Z", must be followed especially when posting claims that are widely considered to be controversial."

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

Rapture, Premillennialism & Dispensationalism Refuted!

See: "Replacement theology" proven from the Bible!

See: The Origin of Rapture Doctrine in 1830 AD (Inventor: John Darby)

See: 50 ways Pre-millennialism contradicts the Bible

Israel's land promise fulfilled in 1350 BC

1. Israel got all the land they were promised!
2. Israel's 1948 nationhood is not the beginning of the fulfillment of the land promise made to Abraham!
3. Abraham's land promise fulfilled by Joshua, Solomon!
4. Christ will never set foot on earth again!
5. Read more

premillennialism-three-promises-abraham-land-promise-fulfilled-3000-years-ago.jpg

1948 Israeli statehood is irrelevant

1. Fleshly Israel is lost without Christ.
2. Restoring temple sacrifices in Jerusalem is a denial of the blood of Christ.
3. Israeli statehood 1948 AD was not prophesied and is not a sign of a soon to happen second coming.
4. Rapture/Restoration texts refuted
5. Read more
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Matthew 24 fulfilled in 70 AD when the Temple was destroyed

The Titus Arch in Rome that celebrates the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD by Titus as Matthew 24 prophesied.

The Destruction of Jerusalem is prophecies in four parallel passages

Modern headline news never fulfills Matthew 24

The disciples asked when the Temple would be destroyed, not the second coming
Prophetic language of Matthew is used throughout the Old Testament

The "abomination desolation" is the Roman Armies surrounding Jerusalem in 70 AD

The signs of war, earthquakes, famines, warned Christians to flee Jerusalem in 70 AD

Scientific proof earthquakes have not increased in the last 100 years!

The end of the Temple in 70 AD came after the Gospel had been preached to whole world!

Flee to escape Jerusalem not some "Rapture"

Tribulation is "one generation" from 30 AD: exactly 70 AD

nolidad · Oct 23, 2019

Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 13:24
When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

Romans 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 11:2
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 11:7
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Ephesians 2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Philippians 3:5
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

or do we need to buy teh decoder map to know when the inspired writers are talking about Jews and when they are talking about the churcvh!

BUT I DO WISH TO EMPHASIZE ONE THING ABOUT THE NEW COVENANT AND ISRAEL. EVEN PAUL CONFIRMS IRT IS FOR THE JEW

Romans 11:

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Gods call on thed children of abraham, Isaac and Jacob is without repentance

Teh new covenant is theirs, we gentile believers are grafted in to the place of blessing but teh covenant is theirs!

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 23, 2019

nolidad said:
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 13:24
When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

Romans 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 11:2
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 11:7
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Ephesians 2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Philippians 3:5
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

or do we need to buy teh decoder map to know when the inspired writers are talking about Jews and when they are talking about the churcvh!

BUT I DO WISH TO EMPHASIZE ONE THING ABOUT THE NEW COVENANT AND ISRAEL. EVEN PAUL CONFIRMS IRT IS FOR THE JEW

Romans 11:

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Gods call on thed children of abraham, Isaac and Jacob is without repentance

Teh new covenant is theirs, we gentile believers are grafted in to the place of blessing but teh covenant is theirs!

nolidad..........
I, and most other Christians, could also quote a "wall of verses" to support our position/views of the Scriptures.......

jgr · Oct 23, 2019

nolidad said:
I support the people coming back to their native land that was covenanted to them by God! And their scattering and return was prophesied by God!

As to you four points. Are you implying God doesn't know what to do or who is who? YOu strain at these little gnats but are willing to accept huge camels. I do not worry whether all that return are true Jews or not- those are things best left in the hands of Almighty omniscient God!

Therefore, faith and obedience in and to the Son of God don't matter.

Any and all who are "coming back to their native land" are automatically chosen of God.

Camels don't get any more huge than that.

What about people who've decided not to return to their native land because they heard a dispensationalist (maybe even yourself) say that 2/3 of them will be annihilated?

Do they still qualify as chosen?

1 John 2
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Contenders Edge · Oct 23, 2019

claninja said:
Jesus states "a time is coming" in regards to worship ceasing in Jerusalem at the temple. Dispensationalism states "a time is coming" when worship will occur in Jerusalem at the 3rd temple.

2 polar opposite statements.

They are not two polar opposite statements. The presence of another Temple would never cancel the words of Jesus. He would still accept our worship all the same regardless of where we worship Him. The Temple is intended to serve as the King's Court and Palace when He returns.

claninja said:
The Jewish Roman war started in April of 66 and led to the destruction of the temple in August of 70ad. Every 2-3 years, the Jewish calendar has an extra 13th month. Thus it would be 42 months from April 66ad to August 70ad.

Jesus prophesied that Jerusalem, of the 1st century, would be trampled by the gentiles
John's vision tells us Jerusalem would be trampled for 42 months.

There are three months between the months of April and August not six. Forty-two months is three and a half years. The duration of the Roman/Jewish war, even with an added thirteenth month, still fell short of the prophesied forty-two months and Jerusalem had been under Gentile occupation for far longer than forty-two months.

claninja said:
Incorrect, the new Jerusalem does have a river flowing from the temple.
The river flows from the throne of God and the lamb, which is the temple.

The river in Ezekiel's vision flows from a building whose dimensions are measured. In the New Jerusalem. It does not flow from a building but from a throne that is not measured.

claninja said:
and yet BOTH trees from Ezekiel and Revelation serve the same purpose: to produce fruit each month and have leaves for healing the nations.
Parables are not exact copies. Parables are earthly stories with heavenly meanings.

Parables have to be consistent with the heavenly meanings that they are supposed to represent. Ezekiel's vision is not consistent with the New Jerusalem and though there are some similarities between the two, there are also major differences.

claninja said:
I disagree.

With which part?

claninja said:
Who said NT scripture refutes Ezekiel's vision. I would argue NT scripture shows the fulfillment of Ezekiel's symbolic vision.

In Ezekiel's vision, God dwells on the earth in a Temple from which He rules and yet you deny that Christ will rule from a Temple at a time before the coming of the New Jerusalem. Sounds like an argument against Ezekiel to me.

BABerean2 · Oct 23, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
In Ezekiel's vision, God dwells on the earth in a Temple from which He rules and yet you deny that Christ will rule from a Temple at a time before the coming of the New Jerusalem. Sounds like an argument against Ezekiel to me.

And that temple in which God now dwells is found below.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

If you put all of the members of the New Covenant Church shoulder-to-shoulder, how big would that temple be?

Were Paul, and Peter confused about the New Covenant temple?

.

Contenders Edge · Oct 23, 2019

BABerean2 said:
And that temple in which God now dwells is found below.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

If you put all of the members of the New Covenant Church shoulder-to-shoulder, how big would that temple be?

Were Paul, and Peter confused about the New Covenant temple?

.

Are we a building with specific dimensions and measurements? That is the kind of Temple described by Ezekiel from which God will rule when He returns to the earth.

BABerean2 · Oct 23, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
Are we a building with specific dimensions and measurements? That is the kind of Temple described by Ezekiel from which God will rule when He returns to the earth.

Are you claiming 1 Corinthians 3:16 does not say that God is now dwelling in a temple on earth?

There is a certain number of believers at any moment in time, which is known by God, so yes the New Covenant temple is of a specific size.

.

Contenders Edge · Oct 23, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Are you claiming 1 Corinthians 3:16 does not say that God is now dwelling in a temple on earth?

There is a certain number of believers at any moment in time, which is known by God, so yes the New Covenant temple is of a specific size.

.

We are not told the size of the collective body in which God presently dwells but we are told the size of the Temple in Ezekiel's vision plus descriptions of features only applicable to a building or compound that could never apply to people. Furthermore, the temple in which the Spirit of God dwells is being added to daily and will continue to be added to until the end of the age, but Ezekiel's Temple is not a work under construction. It is a completed building from which God is ruling the world.

A building has dimensions and features that can be measured. A collective body does not.

BABerean2 · Oct 23, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
A building has dimensions and features that can be measured. A collective body does not.

Tell that to the local Fire Marshall when he shows up at your church...

.

THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

DO YOU AGREE WITH THE OP POST?

Yes

No

I don't know what REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY is

I don't know what SUPERSESSIONISM IS

Does it matter?

Other

I don't know

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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