the work of God and OSAS are they exclusive of each other

Carl Emerson said:

Yes but the grace to receive is given by God as is the ear to hear His call to salvation.

Click to expand...

Are you teaching irresistible grace? Because that isn't biblical.

I am teaching that every aspect of salvation is by Grace.

redleghunter said:

If we are speaking of the man mentioned in 1 Corinthians 5, then we learn in 2 Corinthians the man was restored after repentance.

Click to expand...

Yes we know that. My comment was Paul didn't know if he would repent before he did. Therefore when Paul said hand him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh to save the spirit, Paul was only taking about a possible outcome, the favorable one that would come IF THE MAN REPENTED. Of course Paul knew after he repented, and that's when he wrote about the man again in 2Corinthians.

Read John 15:9-11. We stay in God's love only if we keep his commandments. We are free moral agents, and because of that we don't have to do that. The man in Corinth didn't have to do that either. No one does.

• redleghunter said:

  I actually quoted Ephesians 2:10.

  Click to expand...

redleghunter said:

We are saved only by the Finished Work of Jesus Christ.

We are made new creations in Christ Jesus for good works.

Click to expand...

We are saved by Christ, but you can die because of what you do. That message is throughout the Bible. I used to argue with atheists on another site. And some of them hated the God of the Bible and the Bible.

One of the reasons the most hateful one of them brought out for her hatred of God is the Old Testament stories that God killed, or had the Jews kill thousands of people in.

There were different reasons in God's purpose for that. But could this be one, considering there are so many Christians claiming they and every other Christian cannot lose their salvation?

Could one reason for the deaths of those ancient people at the hand of God be to show people that have heard that false teaching that a Christian cannot lose their salvation and believe it, or to show us that don't, that God will not accept excuses from people who turn against him? Standing before God and saying, I believe in Christ, Christ saved me is not enough. You will not stay in Christ's love if you do not obey him.

The New Testament claims the stories in the Old Testament were written as examples. Examples of what? Of how God reacts to various circumstances, and what he requires of us. See Romans 15:4

Vicky gould said:

Where was the repentance by Adam and Eve? They blamed each other, the Satan and even God for their fall. Did God love Adam And Eve?

Click to expand...

I don't see your point. The story of Adam and Eve proves that your teaching OSAS is a false teaching by their deaths. Let's put your point to rest this way. I have not had chance to read most other comments, because I've been working. But knowing how some posters here, and I didn't say you, I said some refuse to comment on scriptures that clearly refute their teaching, YOU PROVE ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED IS TRUE BY EXPLAINING TO EVERYONE HOW THE SCRIPTURES IN MATTHEW 7:21-27 PROVE YOUR POINT. That was just a bit of the proof I first offered. And I can guess, without even looking, that NO ONE HERE, who believes OSAS has even touched it, for the reason I bring out in this post. The reason being it proves your teaching is denying the word of Christ.

So here is the point I have made from first posting to this thread. If you deny the words of Christ you don't believe in in him in the way scriptures instruct us to. Instead you teach others to believe in Christ in the way Satan told Eve to believe in God. Factually that statement OSAS is not in any part of the Bible, nor is the idea. You are actually spreading the exact message Satan did to Eve. Believe in God. Oh, yeah, know that he exists, believe that. But you don't have to do what he says, and he won't do any harm to you if you don't. Go ahead, you choose what to do.

Vicky gould said:

For your information the Lord allowing Adam and Eve and us to die is one of His greatest blessings. Maybe you would want to go through eternity in your flesh I’ll pass. Are you deranged? How does Matthew 7 prove in any way your unhinged claim.

Click to expand...

Look I have argued for years with opponents that, at least up to this point in our conversation, appeared much fiercer than you. But I don't know that for sure, since we are new at sharing thoughts.

This is one thing some but not all of those of others did: when they couldn't prove their point, and I brought that out, they resorted to name calling. And almost all of them changed the subject. Now that all here see you have done both, why don't you at least try to redeem your teaching point, and explain how the scriptures I gave you in Matthew 7 prove your point. Because I claim you cannot redeem your teaching point through those scriptures. If you believe you can, prove it.

And Vickie Tom, another poster appears to have responded to a post you directed at me. I am not Tom, and have no idea why he did.

Woke said:

There were different reasons in God's purpose for that. But could this be one, considering there are so many Christians claiming they and every other Christian cannot lose their salvation?

Could one reason for the deaths of those ancient people at the hand of God be to show people that have heard that false teaching that a Christian cannot lose their salvation and believe it, or to show us that don't, that God will not accept excuses from people who turn against him? Standing before God and saying, I believe in Christ, Christ saved me is not enough. You will not stay in Christ's love if you do not obey him.

The New Testament claims the stories in the Old Testament were written as examples. Examples of what? Of how God reacts to various circumstances, and what he requires of us. See Romans 15:4

Click to expand...

Examples of a reprobate heart.

Woke said:

YOU PROVE ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED IS TRUE BY EXPLAINING TO EVERYONE HOW THE SCRIPTURES IN MATTHEW 7:21-27 PROVE YOUR POINT.

Click to expand...

The point is the people claiming "Lord, Lord" then go on and list the things they have done and not resting on His Grace and Mercy. The rest in the room of good intentions thinking they can make themselves good enough to be accepted by God.

Woke said:

Read John 15:9-11. We stay in God's love only if we keep his commandments. We are free moral agents, and because of that we don't have to do that. The man in Corinth didn't have to do that either. No one does.

Click to expand...

Why stop at verse 11:

John 15: NASB

12“This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13“Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. 14“You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15“No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17“This I command you, that you love one another.

Woke said:

The New Testament claims the stories in the Old Testament were written as examples. Examples of what? Of how God reacts to various circumstances, and what he requires of us. See Romans 15:4

Click to expand...

Romans 15: NASB

1Now we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those without strength and not just please ourselves. 2Each of us is to please his neighbor for his good, to his edification. 3For even Christ did not please Himself; but as it is written, “THE REPROACHES OF THOSE WHO REPROACHED YOU FELL ON ME.” 4For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

renniks said:

Are you teaching irresistible grace? Because that isn't biblical.

Click to expand...

If someone is dead and made alive by God who is exactly resisting?

Did Lazarus have a say in being raised? No of course not. I'm am quite sure he was overjoyed, jumping and leaping and praising God. That is irresistible grace.

Irresistible Grace is not "God saved me kicking and screaming, I want no part!" That would be a reprobate response. We are made new creations in Christ Jesus. The heart of stone is removed (by God) and replaced with a heart of flesh (by God). He then puts His spirit in us (God does this too!)
The Promise of the New Covenant in the OT here:

Ezekiel 36: NASB

22“Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. 23“I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD,” declares the Lord GOD, “when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. 24“For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. 25“Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27“I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. 28“You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God. 29“Moreover, I will save you from all your uncleanness; and I will call for the grain and multiply it, and I will not bring a famine on you. 30“I will multiply the fruit of the tree and the produce of the field, so that you will not receive again the disgrace of famine among the nations. 31“Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and your abominations. 32“I am not doing this for your sake,” declares the Lord GOD, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel!”

redleghunter said:

If someone is dead and made alive by God who is exactly resisting?

Did Lazarus have a say in being raised? No of course not. I'm am quite sure he was overjoyed, jumping and leaping and praising God. That is irresistible grace.

Irresistible Grace is not "God saved me kicking and screaming, I want no part!" That would be a reprobate response. We are made new creations in Christ Jesus. The heart of stone is removed (by God) and replaced with a heart of flesh (by God). He then puts His spirit in us (God does this too!)
The Promise of the New Covenant in the OT here:

Ezekiel 36: NASB

22“Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. 23“I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD,” declares the Lord GOD, “when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. 24“For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. 25“Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27“I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. 28“You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God. 29“Moreover, I will save you from all your uncleanness; and I will call for the grain and multiply it, and I will not bring a famine on you. 30“I will multiply the fruit of the tree and the produce of the field, so that you will not receive again the disgrace of famine among the nations. 31“Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and your abominations. 32“I am not doing this for your sake,” declares the Lord GOD, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel!”

Click to expand...

Why do the determinists always quote Ezekiel? Ezekiel is about men getting what they deserve because of their actions. Yeah, it says he's going to carry out his plan in spite of their rebellion. It's not even about how to be saved

redleghunter said:

Did Lazarus have a say in being raised? No of course not. I'm am quite sure he was overjoyed, jumping and leaping and praising God. That is irresistible grace.

Click to expand...

Personally, I think Lazarus probably came up swinging. I would be royally ticked off to be brought back back from heaven to Earth. Of course, it has absolutely nothing to do with salvation so I don't know why you're using it.

Vicky gould said:

I am sorry for the way I responded To your text please accept my apology

Click to expand...

Accepted, but I still ask you to prove your point by explaining the scriptures in Matthew chapter 7, the ones I shared with you.

renniks said:

Why do the determinists always quote Ezekiel? Ezekiel is about men getting what they deserve because of their actions. Yeah, it says he's going to carry out his plan in spite of their rebellion. It's not even about how to be saved

Click to expand...

It’s about the regeneration. And that it has nothing to do with our actions it is the very definition of Grace.

renniks said:

Why do the determinists

Click to expand...

It is not determinism but God’s sovereign acts.