Genesis 1 is to be taken literaly - it is the only logical option

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 21, 2019

solid_core said:
Only if you want it to be.

COOL! THANKS ~ I ONLY want what the Creator Yahuweh wants.... good so far !

BobRyan · Oct 21, 2019

rjs330 said:
People that do not take it to be literal like to use the arguments you present. But they don't hold water. Repetitions mean nothing when you are making a specific point in description. That's obvious is this case as God is defining for us how long it took Him to create and what he created and when. He could have said "God created the heavens and earth and all things in the heavens and earth.". But he didn't. He was specific as to what he created, when he created it and how long. People love to argue the word for day in the Hebrew. God was specific in that he described what a day was, so we wouldn't misunderstand.

Amen!

Legal Code -- Ex 20: "11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

=======================================

Professor James Barr, Regius Professor of Hebrew at the University of Oxford, has written:

‘Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1–11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that: (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience (b) the figures contained in the Genesis genealogies provided by simple addition a chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story (c) Noah’s flood was understood to be world-wide and extinguish all human and animal life except for those in the ark. Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know.’

Those who look at "the kind of literature that it is" and the Hebrew language scholarship in all world class universities - appear to agree with you - it is being written as historic account and not symbolism. Even the Legal code summary of it - has that same POV.

BobRyan · Oct 21, 2019

BobRyan said: ↑
Yep all kinds of actual "observations in nature" very possible without having to first imagine that a bacteria will "turn in to a rabbit" given enough time and chance.

ChristianForCats said:
Sciencets don't imagine stuff like that when creating a hypothoses

Certainly not in the "real" sciences" ..no doubt about it.

In real science.. observation in nature and repeatable observable experiment there is no such "fluff" as "the greatest hoax" regarding Marsh's fabricated horse fossil sequence still on display in the Smithsonian 50 years after it was known to be pure fraud. No such thing as Ernst Haecles wood-carving-fraud wildly imagining that ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny. No such thing as the world class scientists in its own field of science saying the "one thing they know" about their science is "it should not be taught in high school"

GodLovesCats · Oct 21, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
And yet, it remains fabricated, unproven, ungodly, and unsure.

Evolution means the exact opposite of all that. Why are you still unwilling to accept the PROVEN FACTS? I already explained many times the proof is everywhere that evolution has been happening over hundreds of millennia.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 21, 2019

BobRyan said:
the writer(s) of Genesis 1–11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that: (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience (b) the figures contained in the Genesis genealogies provided by simple addition a chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story (c) Noah’s flood was understood to be world-wide and extinguish all human and animal life except for those in the ark.

Amen, and as far as I know and believe, the ideas of some long time frame over 10k years came in the last few hundred years, from sources not at all related to nor coming from any Scripture at all.
The ancient people (can we call them that from 2000 to 6000 years past?) , all seemed to just KNOW that everything was/is/ as God said (they simply trusted Him) , and they did not have a tempter trying to persuade them otherwise, at least related to creation, et al Biblical things revealed in Scripture by Yahuweh.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 21, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
Evolution means the exact opposite of all that. Why are you unwilling to accept the PROVEN FACTS? .....

ummm..... not so.

Or, for clarity, who was first (in person that you trust) who told you that evolution was even possible ?

GodLovesCats · Oct 21, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
What does mankind DO with all the knowledge it 'has' (as if anyone knows anything)?

You know what scientists do with it: make the world a better place. Unless, of course, you never learned a single thing about what science is.

Without science, there would be no health and veterinary care, clean food and water, animal rescues . . . I could go on forever.

It seeks to drag everyone down into destruction, inevitably, as Scripture says, apart from Jesus Christ, contrary to the True Gospel of Christ Crucified (dead to the world, the world dead to us in Christ).

Anti-science people do that. God gives His people scientists, doctors, psychologists, nurses, veterinarians, veterinary technicians, a whole lot more. He makes them.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 21, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
You know what scientists do with it: make the world a better place. Unless, of course, you never learned a single thing about what science is.

Not according to any real business or politic or other model - According to all Scripture, being men of the flesh, they do with it this: seek power or make money, or serve those who do (who control them)....
If they don't have the money or make the money to do it, they don't do it. (money/ love of money/ is the motive, purpose and driving force for most all mankind including the so-called sciences).

GodLovesCats · Oct 21, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Ummm..... not so.

Or, for clarity, who was first (in person that you trust) who told you that evolution was even possible?

Nobody tells me evolution is "possible." They all say it is a proven fact. They know with absolute certainty evolution happened. They know because they are professional scientists - not people like you who studied totally different subjects and purposely chose to ignore experts.

GodLovesCats · Oct 21, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Not according to any real business or politic or other model - According to all Scripture, being men of the flesh, they do with it this: seek power or make money, or serve those who do (who control them)....

If they don't have the money or make the money to do it, they don't do it. (money/ love of money/ is the motive, purpose and driving force for most all mankind including the so-called sciences).

Business and politics have nothing to do with making the world a better place through science. They don't know science like all researchers do. There is no reason to even attempt to make such a connection. Also, this thread has nothing to do with money, so bringing that that up is totally pointless.

solid_core · Oct 21, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
COOL! THANKS ~ I ONLY want what the Creator Yahuweh wants.... good so far !

This is a very idealistic self evaluation.

BobRyan · Oct 21, 2019

solid_core said:
"simple organisms turned to a complex ones in time" is a statement describing what we observe in nature.

It is a statement describing what we do not "observe in nature" given that we now have direct observation of over 50,000 generations proving that the much-imagined transition so necessary in evolutionism does not actually happen --- specifically in the case of super simple organisms such as prokaryotes.

DamianWarS · Oct 21, 2019

Bro. Dave Gardner said:
I have reason to believe that the creation account, while perhaps containing some symbolic elements (as most of Scripture does) is not non-literal.

which creation account are we talking about? Gen 1-2:3 or Gen 2:4-24?

BobRyan · Oct 21, 2019

DamianWarS said:
which creation account are we talking about? Gen 1-2:3 or Gen 2:4-24?

There is only one timeboxed chronological sequence and that is -- Genesis 1:2-2:3. There is also a short summary that adds detail to the full account from Genesis 1 - Detail added in chapter 2 such as aspects of humanity given with no time element at all --, no fish, no air, no sun etc because it is 'adding detail" not "deleting scripture" so the fish, the air, the sun and moon etc are already accounted for as the reader gets to chapter 2.

It "adds detail" that
1. man was created first
2. marriage
3. Tree of life
4. garden of Eden
5. Tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Detail "needed" to give the backstory for the fall of mankind in Genesis 3.

BobRyan · Oct 21, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Amen, and as far as I know and believe, the ideas of some long time frame over 10k years came in the last few hundred years, from sources not at all related to nor coming from any Scripture at all.

"As if" Moses was a Darwinist and so also all his readers who in fact were newly-freed-Egyptian-slaves

Bro. Dave Gardner · Oct 21, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
You know what scientists do with it: make the world a better place. Unless, of course, you never learned a single thing about what science is.

Without science, there would be no health and veterinary care, clean food and water, animal rescues . . . I could go on forever.

Anti-science people do that. God gives His people scientists, doctors, psychologists, nurses, veterinarians, veterinary technicians, a whole lot more. He makes them.

There is a difference between acknowledging scientific activity as profitable to the health and welfare of the earth and its inhabitants, and holding science up as a standard by which all things must be verified. And at increasingly alarming rates, far too many Christians are either oblivious to, or in utter denial of such a distinction.

solid_core · Oct 21, 2019

BobRyan said:
There is only one timeboxed chronological sequence and that is -- Genesis 1:2-2:3. There is also a short summary that adds detail to the full account from Genesis 1 - Detail added in chapter 2 such as aspects of humanity given with no time element at all --, no fish, no air, no sun etc because it is 'adding detail" not "deleting scripture" so the fish, the air, the sun and moon etc are already accounted for as the reader gets to chapter 2.

It "adds detail" that
1. man was created first
2. marriage
3. Tree of life
4. garden of Eden
5. Tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Detail "needed" to give the backstory for the fall of mankind in Genesis 3.

The oldest creation myth in the Bible isn't in the Book of Genesis at all. It is alluded to in the Book of Isaiah, in the Book of Job and in Psalms.

The clearest and fullest biblical account of this ancient myth appears in Psalm 74: “For God... Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters. Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness. Thou didst cleave the fountain and the flood: thou driedst up mighty rivers. The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun. Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter” (74:12-17).

Genesis of Genesis: Where did the biblical story of Creation come from?

solid_core · Oct 21, 2019

BobRyan said:
It is a statement describing what we do not "observe in nature" given that we now have direct observation of over 50,000 generations proving that the much-imagined transition so necessary in evolutionism does not actually happen --- specifically in the case of super simple organisms such as prokaryotes.

Evolution: Watching Speciation Occur | Observations

Bro. Dave Gardner · Oct 21, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
Business and politics have nothing to do with making the world a better place through science.

Business and politics have everything to do with everything they possibly can to increase their wealth and power.

DamianWarS · Oct 21, 2019

BobRyan said:
It "adds detail"

Details that conflict with the other, the most obvious being the order. If both are literal than we need to do some re-arranging to reconcile the texts.

These accounts are goal driven, account 1 has a different goal than account 2. The details serve no purpose unless they build the goal so they are fluid but the most important part is the goal. Welcome to Heberic block logic, cause that's how it works.

Genesis 1 is to be taken literaly - it is the only logical option

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