What is so great about Lot?

mmksparbud said:

True, never the less, it was the custom. And Lot was not acting in an unusual way.

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So ---- morals change??? I know that cultural standards change but do morals?

Emmylouwho said:

Would you offer your daughters to rapists ?

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Only after they were dead.

mmksparbud said:

It is not that rape is considered OK by God in any way. You have to understand the Eastern mind of hospitality. Even an enemy, if he asks for shelter, is to be treated with utmost hospitality. The 2 angels he brought home were under his roof and under his protection. Yes, he offered his daughters, not just because it was going to be a homosexual act, and rape, but because the men were to be given utmost respect as his guests, even at the cost of his own life or the honor of wife or daughters. It was the custom, and still is, to have utmost hospitality for strangers. It is not the only incidence of a man offering a woman of his own house to protect a guest in the bible.

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I understand the concept of hospitality, but Lot was under no obligation from God or anyone else to toss his daughters out to an angry mob. He was not offering hospitality to the mob and could have simply refused to turn over his guests. And he wasn't offering his *own* life or he would have been willing to defend both his guests *and* his family, who are also under his protection as head of his household.

I think too many people give this one a pass simply because it's "in the bible" and will come up with all sorts of justifications for Lot's behavior, but there were other hospitable alternatives but instead he attempts to bargain with evil and comes off as more of an attempt at pacifying the crowd, not just for the sake of his guests, but for saving himself. Lot has pretty much put himself first up to that point, so why change?

mmksparbud said:

True, never the less, it was the custom. And Lot was not acting in an unusual way.

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I don't think anyone is arguing that Lot was acting in an unusual way for his time, but that doesn't make it any less reprehensible or any more pleasing to God.

coffee4u said:

Because the OP wants to know why, so we drawing on what we know of scripture and Jewish culture at that time to try and answer them. Only I am not sure the OP really wants to know why or is just trying to bait us. I've never seen them say thanks for explaining or they get it or anything that suggests they have been helped by anyone here at all. It's not like we are all ordained ministers. I am sure some people here could be or are Bible scholars, but I think most of us are just regular Christians doing their best to understand some tricky scriptures. If that is just me and you all are highly trained seminary graduates then I will quit trying and leave it to you.

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Sorry I didn’t mean it like that. Trust me, I don’t consider myself qualified lol. I was just wondering how we can explain unless we’re sure we have it correct ourself. I’ve got so many questions s myself. But it’s awesome your doing your best along with all the others.

Loversofjesus_2018 said:

Sorry I didn’t mean it like that. Trust me, I don’t consider myself qualified lol. I was just wondering how we can explain unless we’re sure we have it correct ourself. I’ve got so many questions s myself. But it’s awesome your doing your best along with all the others.

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Since Christians disagree enough to split and form new churches over scripture interpretation, I think we can only know for sure for ourselves and sometimes not even then. Apart from some tenets that I think all Christians believe- such as Jesus died for our sins, that people being people will always disagree.
Take just about any piece of scripture and some will take it literally and some allegorically, or others will say no this means something else because of how it was translated or because of cultural context. I would love to see all Christians agree about scripture but I guess so long as we are infallible humans that isn't going to happen.

Emmylouwho said:

That’s why I started another thread soliciting spiritual truths that are found in the Bible. It doesn’t seem to be a popular thread.

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Which thread is that?

Emmylouwho said:

In the “Eastern mind of hospitality” it is the custom to offer your daughters to people who want to harm your guests? Where did you learn this?

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You can google ancient middle eastern hospitality customs. I learned about it in High School--and I'm 68 now.

Emmylouwho said:

That’s the thing. By our standards, Lot was a creep. But by God’s standards, Lot was righteous. Do you see the problem here?

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All there is to see in topics directed this way is a group of people born of women in a time not long past, walking to and fro in a world not of their making and beyond their understanding; heading towards a death they can't avoid for an appointment they must attend with the source of the immensity of all wisdom, power, knowledge, presence and righteousness, and they think they will be the judge?

When everyone in this forum in dead and no one remembers these conversations, what do you think will still be left standing if it is between God's Word or your opinion? When you don't have plastic keys beneath your fingers to air your complaints, and people like yourself who feel entitled and high-minded to agree with your sentiments and give "likes" to your commentaries, do you think you will be any different than Job and that any of us will be the first to put God on trial?

How bizarre to be a creation with a mind created by the wisdom of a Creator and think that the wisdom you received can be greater than the source from which it came if you use that sourced wisdom to deny the source Himself.

Emmylouwho said:

That’s the thing. By our standards, Lot was a creep. But by God’s standards, Lot was righteous. Do you see the problem here?

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When the Bible calls Lot righteous it isn't referring to what he did here. We don't know anything about the rest of his life or much of what happened before he moved there. I think most people would see that as abhorrent, and Old Testament law had laws against rape.
But God's grace is about saving even the worst of people, even those who have committed rape and murder. Saul who became Paul sanctioned murder. The Bible says he approved the stoning of Stephen. I think it goes against our way of thinking because we hope to see rapists and murderers face the worst penalty and be sent to hell, but God wants all people to be saved.

I Timothy 2
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Emmylouwho said:

That’s the thing. By our standards, Lot was a creep. But by God’s standards, Lot was righteous. Do you see the problem here?

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This isn't an example of God's standards, (which are impossible on our own) it is an example of God's grace. Our standards have nothing to do with it.

Romans 5:8
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

The Bible says only Lot was righteous, not his wife nor his daughters, who then concocted a scheme later on to rape him... Which might tell you a thing or two about them, etc...

I doubt any of them were as "tormented" by that culture in that city as Lot was being there... They were more than likely just like the rest of them there... corrupted or already compromised by that culture, etc...

But the men he (Lot) was protecting were Holy and righteous Angels of God... Should he have let them be raped...?

I wonder if the only reason Lot even stayed there was because of his wife and daughters, etc...

Either way, God for some reason considered Lot righteous, and maybe the only sole righteous one left there, and it wasn't just on account of Abraham either...

And I for one believe God, how bout you...?

God Bless!

Neogaia777 said:

The Bible says only Lot was righteous, not his wife nor his daughters, who then concocted a scheme later on to rape him... Which might tell you a thing or two about them, etc...

I doubt any of them were as "tormented" by that culture in that city as Lot was being there... They were more than likely just like the rest of them there... corrupted or already compromised by that culture, etc...

But the men he (Lot) was protecting were Holy and righteous Angels of God... Should he have let them be raped...?

I wonder if the only reason Lot even stayed there was because of his wife and daughters, etc...

Either way, God for some reason considered Lot righteous, and maybe the only sole righteous one left there, and it wasn't just on account of Abraham either...

And I for one believe God, how bout you...?

God Bless!

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It's all about perspective and point of view, and having the right one...

For some reason God considered Lot righteous and it wasn't just on account of Abraham, and to suggest that he was not righteous, is to disbelieve and doubt God...

And he was only considered righteous "among the inhabitants there" also... Or people there (maybe including his wife and daughters also, etc), or in and of, or and/or belonging to that culture there also...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 said:

The Bible says only Lot was righteous, not his wife nor his daughters, who then concocted a scheme later on to rape him... Which might tell you a thing or two about them, etc...

I doubt any of them were as "tormented" by that culture in that city as Lot was being there... They were more than likely just like the rest of them there... corrupted or already compromised by that culture, etc...

But the men he (Lot) was protecting were Holy and righteous Angels of God... Should he have let them be raped...?

I wonder if the only reason Lot even stayed there was because of his wife and daughters, etc...

Either way, God for some reason considered Lot righteous, and maybe the only sole righteous one left there, and it wasn't just on account of Abraham either...

And I for one believe God, how bout you...?

God Bless!

Click to expand...

Neogaia777 said:

It's all about perspective and point of view, and having the right one...

For some reason God considered Lot righteous and it wasn't just on account of Abraham, and to suggest that he was not righteous, is to disbelieve and doubt God...

And he was only considered righteous "among the inhabitants there" also... Or people there (maybe including his wife and daughters also, etc), or in and of, or and/or belonging to that culture there also...

God Bless!

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This might also be why Lot's wife looked back to grieve over the city, while Lot did not look back, etc...

Lot might be (have been) the only reason also, why his daughters were still virgins also, but who he knew in their minds and hearts were already compromised and corrupted, etc, but maybe in whom lot was trying his best to keep them that way (virgins) or from being corrupted, etc, (his two daughters, etc) but maybe also whom he knew that in their minds and hearts, already were, etc...

Maybe anyway...

Either way God says he was righteous and that's good enough for me...

God Bless!