Are Revelation 12:6 & Revelation 12:14 the same events or different events?

Douggg

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A preterist view from a 1st century fulfillment view.............

Pella Flight Tradition – The Preterist Archive of Realized Eschatology


This our Lord indicated in Matthew 24:13 when He said, ‘he that endures to the end shall be saved.’ The end that He had spoken of was the end of Jerusalem.
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Pella Flight Tradition Study Archive
Capstone to the Fulfillment of Jesus Christ’s Olivet Prophecy

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Revelation 12: A Preterist Commentary - Revelation Revolution

Revelation 12:6 Commentary: The Christians of Jerusalem Fled to Pella and were Presumably Kept Safe for 1,260 days.

The woman Virgo symbolizes the kingdom of God. On earth, she is also represented by the Christian church. According to the early church historian Eusebius, the Christian church received an oracle concerning Jerusalem’s destruction, and many Jewish Christians left the city before the start of the war. These refugees fled to the city of Pella.10 Pella is in Perea which according to Jospehus in Wars of the Jews, “the greater part of it [Perea] is desert and rough.”11 The fact that the woman flees to the wilderness in v.6 seems an appropriate description of a region said to be mostly desert.

As previously indicated, the seven trumpets and bowls represent different plagues of Exodus. The fact that the woman flees to the wilderness in v. 6 is another Exodus motif. According to Hebrews 3:10-11 and Psalm 95:10-11, the former Hebrew slaves wandered in the wilderness during the exodus for forty years before their children entered Israel–the promised rest. In Hebrews 3-4, Paul likens the forty-year interval in which the Hebrew slaves wandered in the desert and the subsequent rest their offspring received in the promised land to the life of the Christian saints on earth as they await the resurrection—the promised rest of the saints. Interestingly, there were approximately forty years from the start of Jesus’ earthly ministry to the start of the siege of Jerusalem and the resurrection of the dead. I believe Jesus began His ministry around Tishri of A.D. 29. See Daniel 9:24-27 Commentary: Daniel 9 Miraculously Fulfilled! The siege of Jerusalem and the resurrection of the dead began around Nisan of A.D. 70. See Preterism, the Rapture and the Resurrection. This is an interval of forty years and six months. In other words, Christianity was forty years old by the time of the resurrection—when the Christian saints wandering in the wilderness finally received their promised rest. Is this a coincidence?

Though the exact time of their departure is not known, I believe that, except for the two witnesses, the last of the Christians to flee Jerusalem did so around the time of the Feast of Tabernacles in A.D. 66 when Cestius arrived outside of Jerusalem with the 12th Legion, led a brief assault and then abruptly departed.12 See Matthew 24 Commentary: THAT Generation Shall Not Pass. In A.D. 70 the Romans returned to the city with a much larger army. On Passover of that year–1,260 days or 42 months later—they began their siege of the city. At the very beginning of this siege, the two witnesses were killed. See Revelation 11: A Preterist Commentary–Who are the Two Witnesses?

These two witnesses were Christian and thus should be represented by the woman of Revelation 12:6. Could there have been 1260 days from the final departure of the Christians of Jerusalem until the death of the two witnesses? Josephus tells us that the two witnesses were killed at the start of the siege of Jerusalem. Assuming that the two witnesses died sometime around the Passover celebration when the Romans began their attack and assuming that the last of the Christian saints fled the city sometime around the Feast of Tabernacles of A.D. 66, then perhaps there were 1260 days between the departure of the Christian refugees to the death of the two witnesses corresponding with the time in which the woman representing the Christian saints was kept safe according to Revelation 12:6?

There were 354 days per year in the Jewish lunar calendar used by first century Jews. Approximately every three years, an additional month of 29 or 30 days was inserted into the calendar year to prevent seasonal overlap. Assuming that an additional 29 day month was added sometime in the three and a half years between The Feast of Tabernacles of A.D. 66 and Passover of A.D. 70, then there would have been 1262 days from the 20th of Tishri, the end of the Feast of Tabernacles, of A.D. 66 to the 15th of Nisan, the start of Passover of A.D. 70 when the Romans began their final siege of Jerusalem.13 Is this is the time in which the woman representing the Christian saints were kept safe in Revelation 12:6?

The time in which the woman is kept safe appears to be the same interval in which the two witnesses prophesied and the unfaithful Jews were permitted to remain in Jerusalem according to Revelation 11:2-3. All three events seem to correspond with the arrival of the Roman army in Jerusalem with Cestius in A.D. 66 during the Feast of Tabernacles until the Romans made their final assault on Jerusalem, three and a half years later. See The Flight and Return of the Christians, like the Exile and Return of the Jews from Babylon, is an Earthly Reflection of the Resurrection.
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Revelation Fulfilled, An Exposition, Interpretation and Commentary of Revelation 12:14: The Saints are Kept Safe for “a Time, Times and Half a Time” in Pella.

Like the Jews in Exodus 19:4, the Jewish Christians in v. 14 are carried on eagles’ wings to the desert away from danger. “[T]aken care of for a time, times and half a time,” these Jewish Christians were kept safe while Israel was afflicted with the plagues of Exodus mentioned earlier in Revelation 8: A Preterist Commentary and Revelation 9: A Preterist Commentary–Who is Apollyon?

“[A] time, times and half a time” is a cryptic reference to a period of three and a half years. This three and a half year timeframe is mentioned several times throughout the Book of Revelation. It is the “1260 days” in v. 6 and Revelation 11:3. It is also the “42 months” of Revelation 11:2. In all these cases, this is the interval between the arrival of the Roman army under Cestius at Jerusalem during the Feast of Tabernacles in A.D. 66 to the siege of Jerusalem in Passover of A.D. 70—exactly three and a half years later. It might also be noted that this three and a half year period may also correspond with the arrival of Titus and Vespasian in the early spring of A.D. 67 to the fall of Jerusalem in September of A.D. 70, three and a half years later.

15Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.
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Source: http://www.simonsebagmontefiore.com/j... First Jewish Revolt, (ad 66–70), Jewish rebellion against Roman rule in Judaea. The First Jewish Revolt was the result of a long series of clashes in which small groups of Jews offered sporadic resistance to the Romans, who in turn responded with severe countermeasures. In the fall of ad 66 the Jews combined in revolt, expelled the Romans from Jerusalem, and overwhelmed in the pass of Beth-Horon a Roman punitive force under Gallus, the imperial legate in Syria. A revolutionary government was then set up and extended its influence throughout the whole country. Vespasian was dispatched by the Roman emperor Nero to crush the rebellion. He was joined by Titus, and together the Roman armies entered Galilee, where the historian Josephus headed the Jewish forces. Josephus’ army was confronted by that of Vespasian and fled. After the fall of the fortress of Jatapata, Josephus gave himself up, and the Roman forces swept the country. On the 9th of the month of Av (August 29) in ad 70, Jerusalem fell; the Temple was burned, and the Jewish state collapsed, although the fortress of Masada was not conquered by the Roman general Flavius Silva until April 73. The Zealots and Sicarii overran the Roman military garrison from Jerusalem. This was a heartening victory for the Jewish people as support for the Zealots in the city grew. This sense of Jewish dominance over the Romans was short lived. By the year 67 CE, the Romans under Vespasian and Titus had taken back all of Judea and killed the Jewish rebels that were left. The Jewish strongholds of Jodapatha, after a 47 day siege, was now under Roman control. The Romans were on the march to Jerusalem. The perspective of the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem, mainly Sadducee Jerusalemites, had shifted dramatically from elation to panic. They knew that the revolt would not be a success for long, and they implored the Zealots to surrender peacefully in order to save as many Jewish lives as possible. The Zealots refused. They anticipated the insurrection that would have doubtless come if the more moderate Jewish leaders were listened to by the common person. As a result, the Zealots and the fanatical Sicarii publicly executed them and hung their dead bodies so that everyone could see the repercussions of preaching insurgent messages of peace. The moderate leaders in Jerusalem at the start of the revolution in 66 CE had all been killed by 68 CE, and not one by the hands of the Roman aggressors.The Zealots and the Sicarii retreated to the Temple. The Roman legion, after several attempts at breaching the walls, set fire to the Holy Temple. The site that once gave thousands of Jewish people hope was destroyed. God, it seemed, was no longer in the city. This was the most devastating Roman blow to Judaea. The rest of the city was plundered and burned to the ground soon after the Temple fell. The Romans crushed the remaining, beleaguered Jewish resistance. Jerusalem was under complete control of the Romans by September 70 CE. Christianity was birthed from this clash of civilizations

What is the preterist claim of the third woe of Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
 
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ewq1938

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What are you claiming is the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth in Revelation 11:15-19 ?

The 7th trump is the third woe trump. The first was the 5th trump, the second woe trump was the 6th trump.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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There is this one:

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted
Luke 17:37 [Matthew 24:28]
And they answering say to him, 'Where, sir?'
and He saith to them, 'Where the body<4983> is, there will the eagles/vultures be gathered together.' [Revelation 18:13 Revelation 19:17]
Revelation 18:13 “and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies<4983> and souls of men.
Revelation 19:17 And I perceived one messenger standing in the sun, and he cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven, "hither! be ye being gathered! into the Supper<1173> of the Great God. 18 That ye may be eating fleshes of kings......[Zeph 1:17/Ezekiel 39:19]
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PRETERIST BIBLE COMMENTARY ON ALL MAJOR END TIME BIBLE VERSES:

Revelation 8 Commentary- Plagued by Trumpets

Revelation 8:12 Preterist Commentary: During a Thunderstorm which Presumably Darkened the Sun, Moon and Stars, the Idumeans Broke into Jerusalem and killed the High Priest Ananus II and Thousands of People in the City Mirroring the Way in Which Similar Astrological Imagery was Fulfilled in Old Testament History (Isaiah 13:9-10, Ezekiel 32:7-8 and Amos 8:9).

Ezekiel 32:7-8 reads, “When I snuff you [Pharaoh] out, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon will not give its light. All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you; I will bring darkness over your land . . . (Ezekiel 32:7-8)” As seen in Ezekiel 32:7-8, the sun, moon and clouds are darkened by cloud cover. The fact that the sun, moon and stars are again darkened for a third of the day and night in Rev 8:12 implies that they are darkened again by cloud cover as was the case in the judgment of Pharaoh in Ez 32:7-8.

The darkening of these heavenly bodies foreshadows and appears to symbolize the elimination of a leader and his people. Similar imagery is found in Isaiah 13:9-10, Ezekiel 32:7-8 and Amos 8:9. In these verses, as is the case in Revelation 8:12, the darkening of the sun, moon and stars signifies political upheaval and the fall or death of a ruler and his people. Ezekiel 32 predicts the fall of Pharaoh and a great slaughter of his people (Ezekiel 32:12). This prediction was accurately fulfilled approximately six hundred years before the birth of Christ. The darkening of the sun, moon and stars in Revelation 8:12 as is the case in Ezekiel 32:7-8 is also presumably the result of the masking effect of the dark storm clouds.

In Wars of the Jews, Josephus describes a prodigious thunderstorm of so considerable a nature that it seemed to him to be almost supernatural, as if God himself were present in the sky [in the Glory Cloud].26 The thick cloud cover of this storm would have naturally blotted out the heavenly lights bringing literal darkness over Jerusalem. And as is the case in Isaiah 13:9-10, Ezekiel 32:7-8 and Amos 8:9, this darkness also brought strife and the death of a leader and his people. In the midst of this storm which would be expected to darken the sun, moon and stars due to the thick clouds of the Glory Cloud, an army of Idumeans broke into Jerusalem and killed thousands of people including the high priest, Ananus II.27 Thus Revelation 8:12 appears to follow the precedence set in Ezekiel 32. In both cases the sun, moon and stars were darkened by thick cloud cover with the darkening of these luminaries foreshadowing the death of a leader and his people.

13As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!”

Preterist View and Commentary of Revelation 8:13 Commentary: Before the Jewish War a Voice Was Heard Crying the Eagle’s Warning of v. 13: “Woe! Woe to Jerusalem!”

Four years before the Jewish War began, Jesus the son of Ananus was heard, though never seen at this time, crying the warning issued in v. 13: “Woe, Woe to Jerusalem!”28 Perhaps his voice is the voice of the eagle in v. 13 crying, “Woe, Woe to the inhabitants of the earth”? As already stated, earth represents Jerusalem and Israel throughout the Book of Revelation. See In the Bible “Earth” Signifies the Specific Land Addressed While “Sea” Symbolizes Foreign Nations. Therefore, both the eagle and Jesus the son of Ananus bellowed the same warning.29

The eagle, the Aquila, was a symbol of Rome.

Interestingly, there is more to the identity of this eagle than what has been stated above. Revelation 8:13 calls to mind the threat for unfaithfulness in Deuteronomy 28:49, the eagle mentioned in Deuteronomy 28:49, like the eagle of Hosea 8:1, is a metaphor for an invading nation. The eagle in Hosea 8 represents the Assyrian army, in Revelation 8:13 it represents Rome. It is perhaps no coincidence that the symbol of first century Rome, like America today, was an eagle. Whenever Rome went to war its legions always carried with them a metal eagle held aloft on a pole called the Aquila. The Aquila which symbolized Rome appears to be the eagle mentioned in v. 13. According to Josephus’ account of the Jewish War, Rome issued repeated warnings to the people of Judea to surrender throughout the Jewish War. In fact, Josephus himself speaking on the behalf of Rome issued many of these warnings himself.30 Here one can see how the eagle of v. 13 representing Rome repeatedly proclaimed “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth” in fulfillment of Revelation 8:13. Israel ignored these warnings. And like an eagle viciously attacking its prey, in the next chapter, Rome continues its ferocious assault on Judea. And in Revelation 9 the outcome of this foreboding omen begins to unfold.31
 
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Douggg

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The 7th trump is the third woe trump. The first was the 5th trump, the second woe trump was the 6th trump.
So what is the third woe? It can easily be shown to be Satan's wrath resulting from him being cast down to earth from the second heaven having a time, times, half time left.

That is the one concrete timeframe, which to begin building the rest of the end times timeline.

Take that piece of concrete information and begins backtracking.

Working backwards,

end of the seven years.

Satan cast down for the final time, times, half time. His wrath the third woe.
The war in the second heaven, Satan and his angels cast down
The third woe takes place quickly
The 7th trumpet sounds.
The earthquake in Revelation 11
The two witnesses ascend
Come up hither
The two witnesses come back to life
The beast kills the two witnesses
The end of the two witnesses testimony time
The beast makes war on the two witnesses
The two witnesses begin their 1260 days (same 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 before the war in heaven)
The confirming of the covenant for 7 years.
 
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ewq1938

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So what is the third woe? It can easily be shown to be Satan wrath resulting from being cast down to earth from the second heaven having a time, times, half time left.


That's isn't the third woe. Only one thing is the third woe:

Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
The Seventh Trumpet
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The three woes are three woe trumpets, the last three. 5th trump first woe, 6th trump 2nd woe, 7th trump 3rd woe.

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

This is not the 3rd woe trump because it does not happen at the 7th trump. This *MIGHT* be related to one of the other two woe trumps but it cannot be the 3rd for obvious reasons (not the timeframe of the 7th trump)
 
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Douggg

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There is this one:

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

================================================
PRETERIST BIBLE COMMENTARY ON ALL MAJOR END TIME BIBLE VERSES:

Revelation 8 Commentary- Plagued by Trumpets

Revelation 8:12 Preterist Commentary: During a Thunderstorm which Presumably Darkened the Sun, Moon and Stars, the Idumeans Broke into Jerusalem and killed the High Priest Ananus II and Thousands of People in the City Mirroring the Way in Which Similar Astrological Imagery was Fulfilled in Old Testament History (Isaiah 13:9-10, Ezekiel 32:7-8 and Amos 8:9).

Ezekiel 32:7-8 reads, “When I snuff you [Pharaoh] out, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon will not give its light. All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you; I will bring darkness over your land . . . (Ezekiel 32:7-8)” As seen in Ezekiel 32:7-8, the sun, moon and clouds are darkened by cloud cover. The fact that the sun, moon and stars are again darkened for a third of the day and night in Rev 8:12 implies that they are darkened again by cloud cover as was the case in the judgment of Pharaoh in Ez 32:7-8.

The darkening of these heavenly bodies foreshadows and appears to symbolize the elimination of a leader and his people. Similar imagery is found in Isaiah 13:9-10, Ezekiel 32:7-8 and Amos 8:9. In these verses, as is the case in Revelation 8:12, the darkening of the sun, moon and stars signifies political upheaval and the fall or death of a ruler and his people. Ezekiel 32 predicts the fall of Pharaoh and a great slaughter of his people (Ezekiel 32:12). This prediction was accurately fulfilled approximately six hundred years before the birth of Christ. The darkening of the sun, moon and stars in Revelation 8:12 as is the case in Ezekiel 32:7-8 is also presumably the result of the masking effect of the dark storm clouds.

In Wars of the Jews, Josephus describes a prodigious thunderstorm of so considerable a nature that it seemed to him to be almost supernatural, as if God himself were present in the sky [in the Glory Cloud].26 The thick cloud cover of this storm would have naturally blotted out the heavenly lights bringing literal darkness over Jerusalem. And as is the case in Isaiah 13:9-10, Ezekiel 32:7-8 and Amos 8:9, this darkness also brought strife and the death of a leader and his people. In the midst of this storm which would be expected to darken the sun, moon and stars due to the thick clouds of the Glory Cloud, an army of Idumeans broke into Jerusalem and killed thousands of people including the high priest, Ananus II.27 Thus Revelation 8:12 appears to follow the precedence set in Ezekiel 32. In both cases the sun, moon and stars were darkened by thick cloud cover with the darkening of these luminaries foreshadowing the death of a leader and his people.

13As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!”

Preterist View and Commentary of Revelation 8:13 Commentary: Before the Jewish War a Voice Was Heard Crying the Eagle’s Warning of v. 13: “Woe! Woe to Jerusalem!”

Four years before the Jewish War began, Jesus the son of Ananus was heard, though never seen at this time, crying the warning issued in v. 13: “Woe, Woe to Jerusalem!”28 Perhaps his voice is the voice of the eagle in v. 13 crying, “Woe, Woe to the inhabitants of the earth”? As already stated, earth represents Jerusalem and Israel throughout the Book of Revelation. See In the Bible “Earth” Signifies the Specific Land Addressed While “Sea” Symbolizes Foreign Nations. Therefore, both the eagle and Jesus the son of Ananus bellowed the same warning.29

The eagle, the Aquila, was a symbol of Rome.

Interestingly, there is more to the identity of this eagle than what has been stated above. Revelation 8:13 calls to mind the threat for unfaithfulness in Deuteronomy 28:49, the eagle mentioned in Deuteronomy 28:49, like the eagle of Hosea 8:1, is a metaphor for an invading nation. The eagle in Hosea 8 represents the Assyrian army, in Revelation 8:13 it represents Rome. It is perhaps no coincidence that the symbol of first century Rome, like America today, was an eagle. Whenever Rome went to war its legions always carried with them a metal eagle held aloft on a pole called the Aquila. The Aquila which symbolized Rome appears to be the eagle mentioned in v. 13. According to Josephus’ account of the Jewish War, Rome issued repeated warnings to the people of Judea to surrender throughout the Jewish War. In fact, Josephus himself speaking on the behalf of Rome issued many of these warnings himself.30 Here one can see how the eagle of v. 13 representing Rome repeatedly proclaimed “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth” in fulfillment of Revelation 8:13. Israel ignored these warnings. And like an eagle viciously attacking its prey, in the next chapter, Rome continues its ferocious assault on Judea. And in Revelation 9 the outcome of this foreboding omen begins to unfold.31
“Woe, Woe to Jerusalem!” That phrase contains woe, twice.

If preterists claim destruction of Jerusalem to be the third woe - then what woe do preterist claim is the woe to the inhabiters of the earth in Revelation 12:12 because of the wrath of Satan knowing that he has only a time, times, half times left.
 
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ewq1938

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“Woe, Woe to Jerusalem!” That phrase contains woe, twice.

If preterists claim destruction of Jerusalem to be the third woe - then what woe do preterist claim is the woe to the inhabiters of the earth in Revelation 12:12 because of the wrath of Satan knowing that he has only a time, times, half times left.

Satan has longer than that. That is how long the woman is protected from Satan not how long Satan has. Satan will have not only 42 months of the GT, but will be in prison for a thousand years then has a short season of unknown length before he is cast into the LOF.
 
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Douggg

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The three woes are three woe trumpets, the last three. 5th trump first woe, 6th trump 2nd woe, 7th trump 3rd woe.
The three woes take place during the sounding of the last three trumpets. The trumpets themselves are not woes.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

This is not the 3rd woe trump because it does not happen at the 7th trump.
This *MIGHT* be related to one of the other two woe trumps but it cannot be the 3rd for obvious reasons (not the timeframe of the 7th trump)
The timeframe of the 7th trumpet begins with the war in the second heaven in Revelation 12:7-9, as God begins dismantling Satan's kingdom so that the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and his Christ.

The mystery of God in Revelation 10 is the taking away of the kingdoms of this world from being under the control of Satan - and bringing those under the control of the Kingdom of God and His Christ here on earth.
 
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Douggg

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Satan has longer than that. That is how long the woman is protected from Satan not how long Satan has. Satan will have not only 42 months of the GT, but will be in prison for a thousand years then has a short season of unknown length before he is cast into the LOF.
Satan's kingdom (known as Mystery Babylon the great) will be dismantled and destroyed during the time, times, half time. Satan, himself, code named the king of babylon in Isaiah 14, never to be a terror (able to carry out his wrath) any more. It is in Ezekiel 28:17-19.

Satan's time left (to carry out his wrath of the third woe) before he is imprisoned for the thousand years will be the time, times, half time.

Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground [Revelation 12:7-9], I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. [Satan will be visibly exposed at the end of the time, times, half times]

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee [the abomination of desolation statue image that Satan will be incarnating during the time, times, half times will be incinerated by the brightness of Jesus's coming].

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee [Satan, by the incinerating of his cloak, will be visibly exposed on the temple mount, to the shock of all them who will have worshiped the statue image] : thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. [Satan's wrath a terror, ends at the end of the time, times, half time]

Satan will never again be able to carry out the wrath like he will do during the time, times, half time - ever again. Although he does deceive the nations again for a short time at the end of the thousand years - in a limited way to put it into their minds to attack Israel. But there will not be any worship the statue image or die - during that time. And he won't be able to persecute Israel during that time.
 
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keras

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What are you claiming is the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth in Revelation 11:15-19 ?
1st Woe; the 7 Seals
2nd Woe; the 7 Trumpets.
3rd Woe; the 7 Bowls.

At present we are at the imminent opening of the Sixth Seal, the worldwide disaster by fire from the sun, that will commence all the rest of prophesies until Jesus Returns.
 
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Douggg

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1st Woe; the 7 Seals
2nd Woe; the 7 Trumpets.
3rd Woe; the 7 Bowls.

At present we are at the imminent opening of the Sixth Seal, the worldwide disaster by fire from the sun, that will commence all the rest of prophesies until Jesus Returns.
keras,

The verse says the three woes are associated with the last three trumpets.

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

The seals are not what announce the woes, but the last three trumpets.

Satan's wrath during the time, times, half time is the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth.
 
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DavidPT

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So what is the third woe? It can easily be shown to be Satan's wrath resulting from him being cast down to earth from the second heaven having a time, times, half time left.

That is the one concrete timeframe, which to begin building the rest of the end times timeline.

Take that piece of concrete information and begins backtracking.

Working backwards,

end of the seven years.

Satan cast down for the final time, times, half time
The war in the second heaven, Satan and his angels cast down
The third woe takes place quickly
The 7th trumpet sounds.
The earthquake in Revelation 11
The two witnesses ascend
Come up hither
The two witnesses come back to life
The beast kills the two witnesses
The end of the two witnesses testimony time
The beast makes war on the two witnesses
The two witnesses begin their 1260 days (same 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 before the war in heaven)
The confirming of the covenant for 7 years.


Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Once satan is cast down and that he sees he was cast unto the earth, the first thing he does is to persecute the woman which brought forth the man child. And when he sees that fails, he is then wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Let's now look at the 7th trumpet.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

There are 5 verses here having to do with what transpires once the 7th trumpet sounds. Can you show anywhere in those 5 verses what satan is doing after he is cast down? I don't see a hint of satan anywhere in Revelation 11:15-19. I don't see where any of those 5 verses are depicting satan persecuting anyone. The context in Revelation 11:15-19 has nothing to do with anything like that. When satan is cast unto the earth he has great wrath. We see in verse 18 above, this----and thy wrath is come. But that's not meaning satan's wrath though, and I'm certain you at least agree with that.

The way it seems to me, God allows satan to have his time of wrath, and once that time has expired, it's time for God's wrath, thus what we see in verse 18 above.
 
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Douggg

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There are 5 verses here having to do with what transpires once the 7th trumpet sound. Can you show anywhere in those 5 verses what satan is doing after he is cast down? I don't see a hint of satan anywhere in Revelation 11:15-19. I don't see where any of those 5 verses are depicting satan persecuting anyone. The context in Revelation 11:15-19 has nothing to do with anything like that.
I agree that Revelation 11:15-19 does not mention Satan at all.

But what we can be ascertain of is that events in Revelation 11:15-19 on a timeline is during the time, times, half time - because in the days of the 7th trumpet the third woe takes place - which we have concrete knowledge that the third woe is the wrath of Satan during the time, times, half time he will have left.

And - and from that we can interpret correctly what the verses in Revelation 11:15-19 actually mean, which in turn, opens the meaning of other verses, like what the mystery of God is in Revelation 10:7.


When satan is cast unto the earth he has great wrath. We see in verse 18 above, this----and thy wrath is come. But that's not meaning satan's wrath though, and I'm certain you at least agree with that.
In Revelation 11:18, that wrath is God's wrath, I agree. But God's wrath is not described as woe to the inhabiters of the earth (Revelation 8:13), like Satan's wrath is in Revelation 12:12.

The way it seems to me, God allows satan to have his time of wrath, and once that time has expired, it's time for God's wrath, thus what we see in verse 18 above.

I think that Satan's wrath is over the course of the time, times, half time when Satan is a terror (from Ezekiel 28:19). Anyone not worshiping Satan cloaked in the abomination of desolation statue image the false prophet orders killed (Revelation 13:15).

God's wrath, during the same period, is in the bowls of wrath poured out on the earth, and the seat of the beast and his kingdom (Revelation 16:10) which Satan gives power to the beast (Revelation 13:4).
 
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ewq1938

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The three woes take place during the sounding of the last three trumpets. The trumpets themselves are not woes.
Each woe is a trumpet...the 5th trump, the 6th trump and the 7th trump. Woe trumps, woe events..blah blah, same thing.
 
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Douggg

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Each woe is a trumpet...the 5th trump, the 6th trump and the 7th trump.
The text does not say each woe is a trumpet.

Woe trumps, woe events..blah blah, same thing.
^^smugness^^.

I am going to treat God's word with respect and use the the terms and phrases in the text - correctly. Because I love God.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

IMO- The "woman" in Rev 12 is Jerusalem. She was protected for a short while until the birth of Jesus Christ of Nazareth who ultimately fulfilled the Messianic prophesy by His death and resurrection.
Jerusalem, noted in Rev. 17 then turns into this woman sitting on the scarlet beast. There is no shortage of OT references to Jerusalem as being a spiritual harlot and a mother of such harlotry, thus a "woman" who rides a scarlet beast.
Revelation 17:3
So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
 
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DavidPT

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IMO- The "woman" in Rev 12 is Jerusalem. She was protected for a short while until the birth of Jesus Christ of Nazareth who ultimately fulfilled the Messianic prophesy by His death and resurrection.
Jerusalem, noted in Rev. 17 then turns into this woman sitting on the scarlet beast. There is no shortage in OT reference to Jerusalem as being a spiritual harlot and a mother of such harlotry, thus a "woman" who rides a scarlet beast.
Revelation 17:3
So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


This is an interesting way to look at it. I can't say that it has ever crossed my mind that the woman might be meaning Jerusalem. I don't know if you are correct or not. So let me ask this. Jerusalem in what sense? The literal city in the Middle East, or in another sense?
 
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Maria Billingsley

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This is an interesting way to look at it. I can't say that it has ever crossed my mind that the woman might be meaning Jerusalem. I don't know if you are correct or not. So let me ask this. Jerusalem in what sense? The literal city in the Middle East, or in another sense?
In the sense Jesus Christ of Nazareth referred to them.
Matthew 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
 
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ewq1938

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The text does not say each woe is a trumpet.

Yes it does.

Rev_9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

Rev_11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

All speaking of the 3 woe trumpets.
 
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IMO- The "woman" in Rev 12 is Jerusalem. She was protected for a short while until the birth of Jesus Christ of Nazareth who ultimately fulfilled the Messianic prophesy by His death and resurrection.
Jerusalem, noted in Rev. 17 then turns into this woman sitting on the scarlet beast. There is no shortage of OT references to Jerusalem as being a spiritual harlot and a mother of such harlotry, thus a "woman" who rides a scarlet beast.


Why would God protect her from Satan two times if she was just going to turn into Babylon anyways? That makes no sense. Babylon symbolizes those of false religion. The woman in Rev 12 is faithful to God through her persecutions and never falls away. Jerusalem is neither of these symbolic women. Jerusalem is holy until the AC comes and then it is called Egypt and Sodom, but not called Babylon.
 
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