Was the holocaust due in part to the Jewish people rejecting Jesus?

Carl Emerson · Oct 20, 2019

timothyu said:
True but it was the people, not the leaders, that allowed it. Self interest on their part gives power to those they see as protectors. The same situation can apply anywhere. We see it in the US today as fear gives way to people gladly giving up rights en masse and putting trust in the military-industrial complex.

I am not sure that 'people' have that power in today's complicated society.

Daniel C · Oct 20, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Dave instead of engaging in the matter soberly, you introduce ridicule through the folly of extremism which everyone agrees with anyway. In so doing you throw out the baby with the bathwater and promote a bondage to scripture that God never intended, and in so doing bind up folks to legalism. As a result of this the living conversational relationship with Jesus is bought into disrepute, and believers are robbed of a vital walk with Jesus that withesses His Glory. No wonder the church is largely ineffective in demonstrating Jesus to the world when this sort of theology is being pushed.

Are you serious man!?

God works through his word. Hearing comes by believing and believing the word of God. Jesus is the word and the ''word'' is now scripture.

The church has failed because it has abandoned scripture and is now doing all the sinful things God prohibits. One thing I do know 100% is this: God will never give a blessing to sin. It will not happen,so when the church violates Gods word....they will not be blessed.

timothyu · Oct 20, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
I am not sure that 'people' have that power in today's complicated society.

Once they allow such a system it is near impossible to reverse it and we reap what we sowed. The lesson is never learned and kept. The moment history is scoffed or revised, is a clear sign of trouble on the horizon. ISIS for instance may be seen as destroying history as they go about blowing up 'idols', but the 'free' world is much more subtle in directing the masses away from past failures, while they promote themselves as still enemies of a once dictatorial nation, while now pursuing the same interests themselves. People have lost the art of discernment.

D.A. Wright · Oct 20, 2019

The judgments of God are even now falling on the nations that have rejected Him, and they have barely yet begun to fall. The United States will not be exempted.

timothyu · Oct 20, 2019

D.A. Wright said:
The United States will not be exempted.

Especially. Other nations do not pretend to do His will or follow Christianity.

Carl Emerson · Oct 20, 2019

Daniel C said:
Are you serious man!?

God works through his word. Hearing comes by believing and believing the word of God. Jesus is the word and the ''word'' is now scripture.

The church has failed because it has abandoned scripture and is now doing all the sinful things God prohibits. One thing I do know 100% is this: God will never give a blessing to sin. It will not happen,so when the church violates Gods word....they will not be blessed.

I am dead serious but this is better discussed on another thread.

I will respond to you in detail on my thread on the Holy Spirit within. Here...
What function does the Holy Spirit have in the hearts of believers?

Heavenhome · Oct 20, 2019

Daniel C said:
Second hand information.

(Playing devils advocate) What makes you think he was telling the truth?

What?

Heavenhome · Oct 20, 2019

JackRT said:
He told me he was 15 when the Gestapo kicked in the front door of his house and he went out a back window. That was the last time he saw his parents or siblings. He said "I lived like an animal for a year before they caught me."

Carl Emerson · Oct 20, 2019

Heavenhome said:
What?

I am not sure that anyone should advocate for the Devil...

Better to ignore???

LoricaLady · Oct 20, 2019

JackRT said:
A holocaust survivor once told me that on the morning of his liberation he awoke to find the camp gates wide open, the towers unmanned, the soldiers gone. At the age of 16 he was probably the only one in the camp still strong enough to walk to the main gate and out onto the road. He felt exhausted and sat down on a large stone at the side of the road across from the gates. He enjoyed the bright warm spring day and listened to the birds singing. The birds were singing!!! He had not heard them the day before or the day before that. He realized that because he was a prisoner that, even though they sang, he did not hear them. He was free, he could hear the birds again! He then heard the footsteps of his liberators. The first Russian troops were approaching the camp.

The first Russian soldier to see him sat down beside him on the rock, handed him his canteen with fresh water, pulled a long loaf of fresh bread out his pack, broke off two pieces. They shared a silent meal for a few moments. Then two civilians, a young man and woman approached, both blonde haired, Aryan in appearance and well fed. The Russian soldier leveled his weapon at them and ordered them to stop. He walked up to the young man and tore the sleeve off his shirt exposing his SS tattoo. He then came back and handed his weapon to the survivor and indicated that he should shoot them. The survivor shook his head no and handed back the weapon. The Russian shot them both dead in the middle of the road.

He also told me that it was 25 years before he could even speak of the horror of his experience in the concentration camps. His own wife did not know till 15 years after their marriage. He said "for 25 years I could not speak of it, now I cannot stop speaking of it". He now spends much of his time telling his story before school groups. His effect on these groups is deeply profound.

Wow. Very eloquently written too.

JackRT · Oct 20, 2019

LoricaLady said:
Wow. Very eloquently written too.

Thank you. I tried to convey the sense of his words as best I could.

Anguspure · Oct 20, 2019

D.A. Wright said:
He is not merely the God of Love--He is the God Who IS Love and in quoting me and replying as you did, you are preaching to the choir.

Yes you are right, and the One Who Is Love did not commit theses atrocities, nor will I hold Him responsible for the fact that they happened.

LoricaLady · Oct 20, 2019

JackRT said:
The idea of a wrathful God is one that dies hard. I think that the notion originated in ancient times when people envisioned God as much like a tyrranical mid-eastern despot. Fear is also quite handy for control purposes.

The idea of the wrath of the Almighty dies hard because it is in the Bible. Who sent the plagues on the Egyptians at the time of Moses?

The Lord told the Israelites that they would not get the diseases and afflictions that HE put on Egypt if they would keep His Commandments.

Even Marian, Moses' sister, was not totally spared from wrath but had leprosy temporarily put on her for her jealous heart.

Look up the word "wrath" in the Bible and see how often it is connected to the word for Deity.

Once more, read Deuteronomy 28's curses for disobedience. Sounds like wrath to me.

LoricaLady · Oct 20, 2019

And P.S. Messiah spoke of hell much more than He spoke of Heaven. Hell sure sounds to me like a place for those who do not escape from the Lord's wrath. It ain't a picnic!

LoricaLady · Oct 20, 2019

timothyu said:
God does not punish. He merely steps aside when man refuses to do His will. The result is man expanding on their own will which always leads to these atrocities.

Actually the Bible talks over and over about punishment for those who do not obey. Look at the parable of the man with the huge debt who got mercy for it and then had no mercy for a fellow servant. He was thrown into prison (symbolic, no doubt for hell) until he would be able to pay off the debt - which was so humongous that he would never be able to pay it.

Look at how Moses had those slaughtered who rebelled when he came down from the mountain. There are many, many cases in the Bible where the evil are punished. I gave some examples in my last post.

It seems to me that people want to think they are too modern and too smart, to really take the whole Bible seriously. They pick and choose what feels comfortable to them.

That used to be me, too. For me a big hindrance was when I believed in the really laughable pseudoscience religion of evolution. Before I did my homework and looked outside the box, and learned to think and analyze scientific material, not just swallow what I was told for years, I thought, like so many others, "Well, science shows the Bible can't be all true. So I'll just decide what makes sense to me."

I now believe that the Lord says what He means and means what He says in the Bible.

timothyu · Oct 20, 2019

LoricaLady said:
Actually the Bible talks over and over about punishment for those who do not obey.

The punishment is stepping aside and letting us reap what we sow, cause and effect of living a life of self interest.

Daniel C · Oct 21, 2019

Heavenhome said:
What?

Some problem?

Daniel C · Oct 21, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
I am not sure that anyone should advocate for the Devil...

Better to ignore???

Well, it's not literally ''playing devils advocate'' Carl,that is just a common phrase for being skeptical.

I was being skeptical about a claim because I know how unreliable some of these folk tales can be but people can ignore me if they choose.

Heavenhome · Oct 21, 2019

Daniel C said:
Some problem?

Yes, however, I think you have answered it by the post that followed on where you alluded to "folk tales", when discussing something like the Holocaust, a historical factual event.

There is nothing else to say, thank you goodnight.

LightLoveHope · Oct 21, 2019

NothingIsImpossible said:
I'm sure this topic may stir up some but I am simply looking for opinions.

I've seen people before say because Jews had rejected Jesus, it is why bad things seem to happen to them. Thus some people say the holocaust would happen no matter what. What do you think?

I personally don't think it would be fair to say that since God would not punish them for such a thing. They are lost, but still his children. Then again I may be wrong. I do remember hearing that anti-semitism existed before Hitler ever existed. Many Catholic Europeans before Hitler had held Jews responsible for Jesus death. Again, this is what I read. Not saying this part is true or not.

I am still sad to see so many christians of any denomination/view that refuse to support Jews or Israel. Though thats another subject.

Every racist group picks on a minority who they blame for the problems and evil which they imagine have befallen their group. The insanity of this hatred and its extreme nature is embedded in envy of success and wealth of others. The unfortunate reality is on average the jewish community have a higher IQ and more geniuses than any other group. For those who feel this means they have an unfair advantage etc. it is ironic. With the amount animosity and hatred, unless you are smart you probably will not survive as an ethnic identity, so both the communities success and the reason why it attracts animosity from ignorant people is the same.

The sadness is that the german society allowed such a hatred and evil to grow without being challenged, like we today equally need to oppose such racist bigotry. There is though a serious separation between this and supporting zionism and the apathied approach of Israel and the extreme zionists in its ranks.

We are not here to support the jews anymore than any other group of unbelievers. We are called to love and honour them all. On a moral stand, we are very supportive of any group that believes in love and help of the family and justice in society.

Was the holocaust due in part to the Jewish people rejecting Jesus?

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