the work of God and OSAS are they exclusive of each other

Presbyterian Continuist · Oct 20, 2019

There is a difference between Justification and Sanctification, and much of the problem occurs when people confuse them and merge them together in terms of gaining and maintaining salvation.

salvation, in general, is both right now, and not yet. We are given the 'title deed" as the seal of our Justification, and we take full possession when we get to glory to be with the Lord.

Justification is being declared "not guilty" by the Lord. That is on the basis of faith alone in Christ. Because the sacrifice of Christ is just once for all time, there is a "double jeopardy" principle in that we cannot be tried at the bar of God for sin again after being acquitted.

Justification allows the total transformation of the heart and spirit and the person becoming a whole new creature in Christ. It is a done deal and the covenant cannot be broken because it is not between God and us, but between God and Christ, and as long as we are in Christ, the covenant is rock solid for eternity.

But, because we are totally transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit in us, we cannot fall away. If a person does fall away, then all he had was religion, and as the Apostle John says, "If they went away from us, they weren't of us in the first place". and, "Those who are of us will stay with us."

Now, that is Justification. It has nothing to do what we have done, or can do. It is God's decree concerning us, based on the finished work of Christ on the cross, and our faith alone in Him.

The evidence of true Justification and the new creation is that we will walk in the Spirit. That is what Sanctification is. It is not an instantaneous event or condition. We grow in grace and in our knowledge of Him. It is described as a walk in the Spirit because we are walking along the road to glory, become more and more like Christ every day. We desire holiness, even though we will not be perfect at it while we are in our fleshly, mortal body. But we know the moral law of God in our hearts, and our goal is to comply with it.

When we start out on the Christian life, we are more in the works of the flesh than of the fruit of the Spirit; but as we progress along the way, the works of the flesh gradually fall away, and the fruit of the Spirit becomes more evident. That is what developmental sanctification is all about.

We will be accountable for what we do in our lives, but it will not be a judgment to decide whether we are saved or not. It will be a determining of the type of reward we will get from the Lord when the fire has burned up all the wood, hay, and stubble from what we have done in our lives. Some will get great rewards, and others will be saved as of by fire.

renniks · Oct 20, 2019

Vicky gould said:
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6

How do we understand these verses. Isn't this the thing taught through the jailer when asking what he must do to be saved and he was told to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." I am OSAS believer and look forward to all thoughts on this, is believing on the Lord Jesus Christ enough or did that jailer perish?

4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

A question if you would give your thoughts. There was a man caught in sexual sin with his step mother and they had let him continue in the church. Paul told them to put him out of the church but they were never to consider that he was not still a brother. Turn him over to Satan that his flesh be destroyed and his soul be saved. Is this not a glimpse of OSAS in Scripture?.

All that doesn't change the fact that a person can stop believing, and be lost. And sin can lead one to that end.

Carl Emerson · Oct 20, 2019

Totally agree with Oscaar - Hence the prodigal son willfully walked away from the Father's blessing but never lost Sonship.

Ricky M · Oct 20, 2019

Vicky gould said:
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6

How do we understand these verses. Isn't this the thing taught through the jailer when asking what he must do to be saved and he was told to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." I am OSAS believer and look forward to all thoughts on this, is believing on the Lord Jesus Christ enough or did that jailer perish?

...

A question if you would give your thoughts. There was a man caught in sexual sin with his step mother and they had let him continue in the church. Paul told them to put him out of the church but they were never to consider that he was not still a brother. Turn him over to Satan that his flesh be destroyed and his soul be saved. Is this not a glimpse of OSAS in Scripture?.

Believe in your heart and confess with your lips - that is how we are told we are saved. Not according to works, lest any man boast. So yes, the work of God is to get you to believe in the One He sent.

We are told to welcome a sinner, correct a brother in sin, and shun a brother who does not accept correction. The one who was put out of the church, yes, remained a brother, unless at some time he disbelieved and denied. My take on this incident is that the brother was so deep into sin, that if he continued in the flesh he would have reached the point of disbelief and denial. So yes it might in that case be better the flesh is destroyed than a soul lost. If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off, right?

Carl Emerson · Oct 20, 2019

Vicky gould said:
Turn him over to Satan that his flesh be destroyed and his soul be saved. Is this not a glimpse of OSAS in Scripture?.

Yes it totally is...

Carl Emerson · Oct 20, 2019

Ricky M said:
My take on this incident is that the brother was so deep into sin, that if he continued in the flesh he would have reached the point of disbelief and denial. So yes it might in that case be better the flesh is destroyed than a soul lost. If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off, right?

My position is that the indwelling Spirit of the Fear of the Lord renders a true believer incapable of disbelief and denial to the extent of losing salvation.

Vicky gould · Oct 20, 2019

His student said:
I'm not completely sure what the question was meant to be in the OP nor where this is going now.

But I will say that the scriptures tell us for sure that He Who began a work in a believer will complete it.

Therefore if we, or the sinning man in Corinth, were ever saved and therefore God started a good work in us or him at some time - we will be saved in the end. That is after all the reason God began the good work in the first place. (Note the golden chain of salvation in Romans chapter 8.)

Neither we, nor the sinning brother in Corinth can ever hear the words "I never knew you".

That being the case - OSAS according to the scriptures - no ifs ands nor buts.

I.e. - we may well not hear the words "well done good and faithful servant". We may well be saved by the skin of our teeth, so as by fire, as it were. But we will be saved in the end and not lost.

I suppose it's quite appropriate to ask if a great sinner like the one in Corinth was ever saved. But, since Paul makes it clear that he was indeed a brother, there could be no doubt in Paul's mind that he would be saved in the end - no matter what it took to get him out of his sin - even death if need be. The same is true for us.

We have God's Word on that - coming from a number of angles and inescapably from any truly systematic consideration of the scriptures.

What are we to make of Paul’s claim to be “The chief of sinners.” Do we feel that about ourselves? Of course Paul made this claim after he had been used to write most of the N.T. What amazed me was his claim was not history it was a present condition he was in. How does it work in our own lives. There are those who see everyone worse than themselves. I struggle with not being this way towards heroin addicts my grandson is one and the last teen years is like trip through Alice’s Looking Glass. I struggle with these modern day leper’s and have prayed for the Heart of our Lord and His wisdom. It is insane.

Ricky M · Oct 20, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Totally agree with Oscaar - Hence the prodigal son willfully walked away from the Father's blessing but never lost Sonship.

The prodigal son never denied his father. Even while he was out whoring away his inheritance, he never denied the family line.

That's the difference between backsliding and apostasy.

Ricky M · Oct 20, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
My position is that the indwelling Spirit of the Fear of the Lord renders a true believer incapable of disbelief and denial to the extent of losing salvation.

I would like to believe that, but I've seen it happen too many times.

Aussie Pete · Oct 20, 2019

Vicky gould said:
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6

How do we understand these verses. Isn't this the thing taught through the jailer when asking what he must do to be saved and he was told to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." I am OSAS believer and look forward to all thoughts on this, is believing on the Lord Jesus Christ enough or did that jailer perish?

4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

A question if you would give your thoughts. There was a man caught in sexual sin with his step mother and they had let him continue in the church. Paul told them to put him out of the church but they were never to consider that he was not still a brother. Turn him over to Satan that his flesh be destroyed and his soul be saved. Is this not a glimpse of OSAS in Scripture?.[/QUOTE

"Turn him over to Satan that his flesh be destroyed and his soul be saved. Is this not a glimpse of OSAS in Scripture?"

There are two aspects to salvation. I prefer the word "deliverance" now. "Salvation" has come to mean going to heaven when you die.
Being born again is instantaneous. When a person realises that they are a sinner, is convicted and knows that God will not accept them, they usually accept the Lord Jesus' death and resurrection for forgiveness of their sin. At that time, they believe "into" the Lord Jesus. The Greek word translated "in" is much stronger than an intellectual acceptance of facts. If a person is drowning, it takes more than a casual belief to grab the rope thrown to them!

Once a person is born again, God sets about delivering that individual from the encumbrances and sin that entangles us (Hebrews 12:1). This is where the individual has responsibility for their own deliverance. God will set us free, by various means. We need to accept that what we suffer is not appropriate for one calling themselves a child of God. It takes time. Some sins should be forsaken immediately, such as an adulterous relationship. If not, their is a price to pay as many will testify. Others take longer. I knew someone who was in their 70's before they were delivered from overeating. He was the most amazing Christian I ever knew, but he still had a food problem late in life.

Once a person is born again, he/she has a new spirit which is of born of God. I don't know how God could condemn that individual to eternal separation. However, the Word makes it clear that there are rewards and placement in God's Kingdom for those who give up their own lives for the sake of the Kingdom. Many will face God with little fruit to show for their lives. Others will receive an abundant welcome into God's Kingdom. The martyr Jim Elliot said, "“He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose.”

dqhall · Oct 20, 2019

Peter wrote to those who God had rescued that they should be diligent to make their calling and election sure. He warned them against being idle. It was not like he was telling them there was no way they could lose.

2 Peter 1:1-11 (World English Bible - public domain)
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2 Grace to you and peace be multiplied in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 seeing that his divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and virtue, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and exceedingly great promises; that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust. 5 Yes, and for this very cause adding on your part all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence; and in moral excellence, knowledge; 6 and in knowledge, self-control; and in self-control perseverance; and in perseverance godliness; 7 and in godliness brotherly affection; and in brotherly affection, love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to not be idle or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brothers, be more diligent to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never stumble. 11 For thus you will be richly supplied with the entrance into the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Carl Emerson · Oct 20, 2019

Ricky M said:
The prodigal son never denied his father. Even while he was out whoring away his inheritance, he never denied the family line.

That's the difference between backsliding and apostasy.

Yes but for the believer under the New Covenant he would be prevented from doing so by the indwelling Fear of the Lord. See Jer 32:40

Blade · Oct 20, 2019

Was just talking to a preacher friend about this.. what 2 days ago. He said if you had seen the preachers I have that loved the lord and spirit field and then walk away you would know you can leave God. That OSAS is not true. I can see and understand that.. I truly can. But what always comes to mind is. What am I looking at? Well one is the flesh and seeing just one moment in time. Is this what GOD does? Is God now..tossing out their life and only looking at this one moment?

And I think about the angels that fell. They knew God.. they were there in all His glory and they made the choice to leave. Whats going to bring them back. Its like if you saw everything Jesus did. You knew He came from God. You knew this was the one that created all. And you walked in that power..on and on. You think make the choice to leave. But those people are so far and few in between. We all get upset hurt. Man there have been times I want to leave.. but never Him. Well my faults.. 100% true.. just happen the other day where the ONLY ones that have hurt me made fun of me were Christians. Not the world. I said not Him.. this is hind sight. At the time I think its all of this.

Who here knows GOD JESUS HOLY SPIRIT like you do you best friend or you spouse or you parents? Not to boast but.. I have seen some..wow wonders..but.. then He does something and I am like.. I still have no clue as to who what He really is! Seems to be no END to what He can do.

Can I lose my salvation? A no. Does God take in to account this WORLD and Satan and all of those demons that work 24/7 never sleeping to kill steal and destroy everything of God? So.. can you just walk away? From what? Baptist? Word of Faith? Catholic? See what I mean? Were still so blind to who GOD really is

He looks at your whole life.

But there are so many in the world that suffer as this son did with mom so he could be saved. I never worry about it. I was not saved in a time bubble. My salvation didn't come from this world nor does it answer to this world. Flesh does.. but not what HE made new. THAT can not sin..ever. This flesh does. I just repent.. knowing what HE started He will finish. And He KNOWS ME! ALL heaven rejoiced when I got saved. So.. WHO in heaven can ever say "I never knew you". See Christ can't lie. So when He says I NEVER knew you.. that person was never saved.

Carl Emerson · Oct 20, 2019

Vicky gould said:
What are we to make of Paul’s claim to be “The chief of sinners.” Do we feel that about ourselves? Of course Paul made this claim after he had been used to write most of the N.T. What amazed me was his claim was not history it was a present condition he was in. How does it work in our own lives. There are those who see everyone worse than themselves. I struggle with not being this way towards heroin addicts my grandson is one and the last teen years is like trip through Alice’s Looking Glass. I struggle with these modern day leper’s and have prayed for the Heart of our Lord and His wisdom. It is insane.

Having come out of a depraved period of life and knowing that only He could bring me back - coupled with 'seeing His Holiness' when I was baptised in the Spirit - I am deeply a 'grace only' person and know that I have no goodness in myself.

His student · Oct 20, 2019

Woke said:
just because a person is saved doesn't mean they always are

renniks said:
All that doesn't change the fact that a person can stop believing, and be lost.

I am a simple man. I like things simplified. Perhaps there are others here like me. Fortunately God has made this doctrine rather simple for us simpletons.

Philippians 1:6
"I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you" OS
"will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." AS

ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED

If a person has ever been saved - he will always remain saved.

GAME - SET - MATCH as this simple man sees it.

"God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Therefore, since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from wrath through Him!" Romans 5:8-9

Just like Forrest Gump - "I'm not a real smart man. But I know what love is."

zoidar · Oct 20, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Totally agree with Oscaar - Hence the prodigal son willfully walked away from the Father's blessing but never lost Sonship.

No, but he was dead ...

Luke 15:32
But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found.

Aussie Pete · Oct 20, 2019

dqhall said:
Peter wrote to those who God had rescued that they should be diligent to make their calling and election sure. He warned them against being idle. It was not like he was telling them there was no way they could lose.

2 Peter 1:1-11 (World English Bible - public domain)
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2 Grace to you and peace be multiplied in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 seeing that his divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and virtue, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and exceedingly great promises; that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust. 5 Yes, and for this very cause adding on your part all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence; and in moral excellence, knowledge; 6 and in knowledge, self-control; and in self-control perseverance; and in perseverance godliness; 7 and in godliness brotherly affection; and in brotherly affection, love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to not be idle or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brothers, be more diligent to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never stumble. 11 For thus you will be richly supplied with the entrance into the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Yes, a great exhortation that well applies today. Again we see the truth of the "second salvation", which Peter calls the "goal of our faith". It is possible to be born again yet miss out on the blessings and rewards of Kingdom living. Lord Jesus did not tell us to preach the shallow "invite Jesus into your heart" message that is common today. Lord Jesus will not come into a filthy heart. People need to know that they are sinners and only Christ can save them. That is just the start of the journey.

Carl Emerson · Oct 20, 2019

zoidar said:
No, but he was dead ...

Luke 15:32
But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found.

Exactly but this has never been a problem for God...

renniks · Oct 20, 2019

His student said:
I am a simple man. I like things simplified. Perhaps there are others here like me. Fortunately God has made this doctrine rather simple for us simpletons.

Philippians 1:6
"I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you" OS
"will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." AS

ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED

If a person has ever been saved - he will always remain saved.

GAME - SET - MATCH as this simple man sees it.

"God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Therefore, since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from wrath through Him!" Romans 5:8-9

Just like Forrest Gump - "I'm not a real smart man. But I know what love is."

Romans also indicates that you can be broken off because of unbelief.
18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

We stand by faith and fall away through lack of faith.

Carl Emerson · Oct 20, 2019

renniks said:
Romans also indicates that you can be broken off because of unbelief.
18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

We stand by faith and fall away through lack of faith.

Where does the faith come from??

the work of God and OSAS are they exclusive of each other

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Shekinah

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads